1986 itasca sunflyer wont start after bad backfire.

[ooghadaddy]

 I backed my 1986 itasca sunflyer into a space at a state park and when I shut the engine off it did not stop running. It sputtered and shook and then there was a hugh backfire and a large puff of white smoke came out from under the hood and it now will not start. there is not even a click. I have tested batteries and alternator changed starter solenoid tested ignition switch. I am not a mechanic and my wife is terminaly ill. She wanted to see yellowstone and i cant even get out of the $50 a night space that is eating all my trip money so any advice would be a blessing. Thank you

[Rickf1985]

OK, Lets get you going. When you turn the key you say you get no click from the starter, do the dash lights go out? Like the oil pressure light and any other dash lights as you go to the "start" position ? Would not shut off, shaking and then a loud backfire is usually signs of dieseling from a high idle and although it can be unnerving and will blow out a power valve if you have a Holley carburetor it should not keep it from starting, especially from cranking. No click and you checked the solenoid, did you check to see if it was getting power to the solenoid? There are two terminals on the starter solenoid, a small one and a large one. If you take a screwdriver and cross those two the engine should crank, there may be a few sparks but that is alright. We just want to make sure the starter and engine are alright and getting power. Do this with the key off so it does not start, that can be exiting if you are not used to it from that position. There are no fluids coming out from under the engine are there? From under the front of the engine, looking up at the pulley on the front of the engine you will see a tab on the drivers side with timing marks on it. On the pulley there will be a notch in the pulley. If the starter will turn the engine by the method I mentioned and you still cannot start it with the key, you can turn the key on and jump the starter and it should start. Make sure it is in park and preferably have someone holding the brake if you are doing this from underneath. If you have no power to the dash then the fusible link down at the starter has probably burn off, I don't know the correlation between the backfire and that but I have seen stranger things. It will be a small section of the thin wire coming off of the big terminal at the starter. You will need a new one from a parts store. You could bypass it with a piece of wire UT, if you have a short somewhere you will let the magic smoke out and have a fire. That fusible link is the only fuse for some of the systems.

I dumped a whole lot of info on you here because it is 7:30 here in the east and I don't know when you will get this so I gave you a whole bunch of things to check. Do them basically in the order I gave them.

If you engine cranks but will not start and sounds funny cranking it may have jumped a tooth on the timing chain. This is a last thing to check and I will tell you that one later if need be.

[Rickf1985]

Just  thought of another scenario, Have you had this type of problem before or any kind of ignition issues like the key is hard to turn or you have to "jiggle"it to get it to work? When yo turn the key to the "on" position does your heater blower work? If not then you may have a bad ignition switch and that could also have caused the shut down problem. Please let me know aNY ISSUES YOU HAVE HAD WITH THIS VEHICLE.  They may not mean anything to you but they may mean a lot to us in this diagnosis.

[Rickf1985]

Ok, It is 9:00 PM, I am turning in, I will check first thing in the morning here which will be about 04:00 there.

[ooghadaddy]

The lights on the dash do go out when i turn the ignition. The radio clock also dims to black. I replaced the starter solenoid. First thing tomorrow morning i will crawl under the rig and check the wires at the starter. I took the ignition and had it tested its ok. I will probably pull the starter off and have it tested in the am. As for other issues i have not spent many miles begind the wheel but there was the starter motor i had to replace. I put brand new batteries in. I have been haveing problems with the tail lights the lights on the right side are far dimmer than on the left. they only test as getting 1.6 volts when i test with meter.

[ooghadaddy]

There are no fluids leaking except for a small amount of power steering fluid that i allready knew about.

[kentw]

Check  all your battery connections-they have to be clean and tight.  If the dash lights are going out when the key is  turned to the crank position you probably have a bad connection somewhere.  Yellowstone is still snowed in as far as i know.  Where are you?  Someone close may be able to help. 

[tiinytina]

This happened to Gone.. the misfire was due to the connection on the distributor coming loose. On one side of the distributor cap there is a small 1-2" box with wires out of the bottom and a clip with a harness going in.. the clips had partially failed causing the connection to fail, causing the cap/rotor to misfire..... I forget what the connection is actualyl called but I used a couple of zip ties to hold the connection tight.

The other part that goes bad is.... under the rotor... drat can't remember what it is called off the top of my head this morning....  its not the pickup but similar function..  if this goes there is no spark at all....  sorry can't remember part name...

[Rickf1985]

Tina is having a senior moment! You have a long ways to go to get to senior status Tina, it gets worse!! The part you are looking for is Ignition module.

The main thing we need to concentrate on right now is the starter and the associated connections. I think the main issue is going to lie there, especially since it has been replaced. I am thinking that the lights have 11.6 volts and that is a typo? 1.6 would be no light at all. This is something we can address in the future but should not be causing this issue but telling us is a good thing. Sometimes it can be totally unrelated to some people but to a mechanic it is the telltale clue.

[ooghadaddy]

I am in yakima washington place called sportman state park. I found a mechanic to come and look at it but he does not have much experience with motorhomes. I am going to cross my fingers for a couple hours and hope he figures it out. Thanks so much to everyone for trying to help. I will post an update as soon as mechanic is done.

[Rickf1985]

A Chevy big block is a Chevy big block, other than some things like the in tank fuel pump everything else is the same as a pickup truck.

Good luck, I will check in of and on.

[ooghadaddy]

 Sorry i did not check in more yesterday. I replaced the starter and put another new solenoid on and got her started. Just in time because they where going to tow me if i did not have it running today.  So much for not teaching old dogs and all that because i am learning alot. Thanks to everyone for there help and sugestions i feel safer for my wife and sister knowing I can reach out to you amazing people. Thanks again.

[ooghadaddy]

Special thanks to rickf1985 you got me started down the right path when i was all over the place. I owe you one.

[M & J]

yeah. Rick's pretty good for an old guy.  W%

[TerryH]

Or a seasoned wise old guy.

[M & J]

We both know he's a seasoned old wise guy.

[Rickf1985]

I am glad to hear you got it going. I have seen more bad rebuilt starters than worn out starters in the last ten years or so. They just take them apart and if they look good they paint them and put them in a box. By the time I retired from the business I would only install new alternators and starters, I would not use rebuilt stuff. The parts store would give me a new one for free but they did not cover my labor to put it in!

[brians1969]

Are there any rebuilts that are trustworthy (like Napa)? Are there still any "auto-electric" places that will rebuild your starter or alternator?

[Rickf1985]

NAPA uses the same rebuilts as anyone else, they were who I got my parts from! NAPA is nowhere near as good as they used to be, they are in the same category as Autozone and Advance Auto anymore. Unless you find an old time one around. The one I used to deal with the older counter guy left because they did not like him taking all the time to look things up in the book when the computer did not show it. That store has gone to hell since he left, everyone goes to a smaller old time store now. Family owned and still have actual books to back up the computers.

[HamRad Mobile]

Good morning, Rick; 

     As a backup to your comment about rebuilt alternators, starters, and other electrical system parts, I was really surprised when the last alternator I bought, and it was one for a 2002 Subaru H6 3 liter engine, was rebuilt in China.  Now we are shipping them to China, they rebuild them, and ship them back to us.  Not only are we no longer building things in the good ol' U. S. of A. anymore; now we are not even repairing things.   I guess we really are becoming a nation of "consumers."

     At this point, I am beginning to wonder how much longer it will be possible to buy bearings, seals, brush sets, and other things for them if we want to rebuild them ourselves?   And how long will it take before tools become something that you see only in museums displayed as relics of our industrial past? 

          Enjoy; 

          Ralph 
          Latté Land, Washington 

[Rickf1985]

I backed my 1986 itasca sunflyer into a space at a state park and when I shut the engine off it did not stop running. It sputtered and shook and then there was a hugh backfire and a large puff of white smoke came out from under the hood and it now will not start. there is not even a click. I have tested batteries and alternator changed starter solenoid tested ignition switch. I am not a mechanic and my wife is terminaly ill. She wanted to see yellowstone and i cant even get out of the $50 a night space that is eating all my trip money so any advice would be a blessing. Thank you

To get back to the original thoughts on this, now that it is running again a thought on the backfire. Is it by any chance idling fast? Is should be idling around 650 RPM, or when you put it in gear it just barely moves forward. If it is lurching when you put it in gear it is idling too fast and either the choke is not coming off or the idle cam is hanging up. You need to get the idle down and you will not have the dieseling again. I hope all goes well for the rest of your trip and my prayers are with your wife.

Rick

[dickcarl]

This is SUCH a good forum to be involved with.  You guys rock. 

[lemortede]

This is SUCH a good forum to be involved with.  You guys rock. 

It really is.

[tiinytina]

But the backfire could also be not the ignition control module but the wiring harness to the distributor (left side of it) this is what caused gone to backfire.  Not a CRS moment for the part its part of the distributor as a whole.  Mine is still zip tied into place.  :-) 

[Rickf1985]

His backfire was caused by dieseling, not a shut off and refire like yours Tina.