440 Engine schematic - oil leak

[Elandan2]

From: tfraz58
Sent: 07/05/2008 11:46 AM

Hi guys,

I need a blow up of the Chrysler 440 if someone can point me in the right direction. Here's the deal; UNDER THE INTAKE MANIFOLD I have an oil leak. I have no idea where it is coming from. I thought the worst at first, a cracked block. That may yet prove to be the case, but my son (who is a marine mechanic bigtime) doubts this as this is not the top of the block under the intake, but some type of shinly aluminum cover plate. He wants to know what that plate is, and what it is covering. Broken oil line somewhere and it's collecting there? Cracked "oil gallery" underneath (his term)? The plate appears to have been repaired in the past with epoxy, so whatever it is it was cracked or something before.  Ideas, guys? And, know where I can get him his schematic? Toilets I can fix, but this is his dept.

MN Tom


 
From: denisondc
Sent: 07/05/2008 12:15 PM

That plate is called a "valley cover'. It always comes with the gasket set you buy for a mopar V8 engine rebuild, but I would think it can also be bought separately. What is underneath it is the space where the camshaft spins, and where the pushrods seat atop the lifters. Its an area heavily bathed in oil mist and spray when the engine is running - so any small crack will certainly leak.. From the 'valley' the oil just drains back into the crankcase.
You have to unbolt the intake manifold to get to it. On a 413 this involves opening up the water jacket too, but that may not be the case on a 440. While you have the valley cover off, spin each pushrod and check that none of them are bent. You will also need the gaskets between the intake manifold and the heads.
Be sure to use a torque wrench to reinstall the bolts and torque it down.



From: Henry
Sent: 07/05/2008 1:03 PM

Unfortunately, the valley pan gasket is not included with most gasket kits. If it is 440, there is no coolant in the intake manifold. I think your problem is something else. I noticed that you have a extra copper line going from a fitting at the back of the engine to somewhere, probably a mechanical oil pressure gauge. My bet is that it has cracked from vibration and that is the source of your leak. Take that copper line out and check to see if it has a split in it. If so, you are lucky. If not, you may have a leak at either end of your valley pan, You can get to both ends of the valley pan without removing the intake manifold. Use RTV or some other high temp silicone product to seal each end. There are no gaskets offered. The valley pan ends are held down by two metal strips bolted to the block.

If you replace the valley pan gasket, be sure to get one with the center manifold heat passages are open if you live in a cold climate, and drive in the winter. If you live in a warm climate, or only drive the motorhome when it is 75+, get the one with the heat crossover blocked.

I personally think you have a very minor problem.

Henry 


 
From: tfraz58
Sent: 07/05/2008 10:28 PM

Dave and Henry, thank you so much. I just got in from work and will share this string with Tommy in the morning. This is sounding very hopeful, especially your "Personally, I think you have a very minor problem", Henry.

I'll keep you posted. If you think of anything else please don't hesitate to throw it in there.

MN Tom

 
   
From: denisondc
Sent: 09/05/2008 12:09 PM

Now I recall; after seeing the page from the parts catalog. The valley cover or pan -was- the intake manifold gasket. The instruct sheet with it said to use RTV around the lip of the block where the valley pan sat on it.
If that copper oil line touched the bottom of the intake manifold, it could have worn through the copper tube. With my mechanical oil pressure gauge, I slid a rubber hose down over the copper line, so it couldnt vibrate against anything metal, on its way to the dashboard. 


 
From: ontheroadagain7
Sent: 10/05/2008 5:22 PM

fel pro still makes the valley pan and  2 out of the 4 advance auto in my area have it in stock here is the buyer guide from fel pro with part # https://mfr.activant.com/mfrserv/app/FMO2/bg_lookup_process.jsp?action=bglookup&partnum=MS96000



From: tfraz58
Sent: 22/05/2008 11:41 AM

Got the copper line out today for inspection. Sadly, that isn't going to be the problem. It's healthy and in good condition, no splits or pinholes. Runs to the mechanical oil pressure guage (aftermarket) installed on the dash. I rerouted it above the manifold and alongside the carb anyhow. Why somebody felt it necessary to snake it under that manifold....

Next step will be to pull the manifold itself to inspect the actual valley pan. My (now educated - thanks to you guys) guess is going to be a crack in the pan, especially considering the halfa%# patch job (my son's description) that somebody did "with the wrong material". The guy here at Checker Auto Parts (a sister company of Advance, I think) says he can get the valley pan. The link ontheroadagain posted doesn't work if someone else could find it. That'd be great.

I'll keep you posted, even if it IS awhile. I'm thinking "A little oil seepage....hmmm. Lived with it THIS long. Campgrounds less than 20 miles. Ice in the dead fridge and we're going on her shakedown pretty quick."


 
From: ZR91
Sent: 22/05/2008 3:13 PM

I changed my valley pan & gaskets last year when I changed the intake manifold.

I used Fel-Pro part # MS96000. It includes the valley pan and gaskets that you will need. You also have the option of not punching out the the heated choke section of the gaskets.
I did not remove them as I don't want any extra heat in the intake or carb. I had no problems starting/running it even in the winter.

btw- I had terrible oil leaks until I changed the gaskets, also I used Hi Temp silicone with the gaskets and there are no leaks anymore.

Jay


 
From: ontheroadagain7
Sent: 22/05/2008 3:52 PM

sorry about that link not working i usually try them after posting it was for the felpro MS96000 that ZR91 used