What engine antifreeze to use?

[Aaarrghh]

Hi, first off, I used the search function but didn't find a good discussion about this topic.

My motor temp climbs anytime I try to cruize over 55 mph or climb hills. I've tried to avoid buying a new radiator. I figured flushing the system might help, so I stopped at an Autozone and all they had was a bottle of Peak 6-hour flush, so I used that. Now after it has been in my system maybe 2 weeks (about 4 hours running time) my radiator is leaking. Well, I know no way around replacing it, so I ordered a brand-new brass-and-copper 2-row radiator, same as original, from autoparts.com.

The point I want to make in this post is that the stuff you put in your radiator can cause real problems. I blame my radiator leaks on the Peak flush. A Hemmings article ( http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2014/08/01/tech-101-the-colors-of-antifreeze/ ) states "there are some issues with the interaction between organic coolants and lead solder, so using OAT in a copper radiator is not recommended."

The article is a good discussion about what the color of antifreeze signifies. In our old motors, some of the new stuff just isn't appropriate and is likely harmful. New radiators are plastic and aluminum, and motors have a lot of aluminum parts. My '83 chevy has none of that.

Beware of what the guy at O'Reilly's tells you. I talked with one who usually knows his stuff. He said to use Dexcool in my new radiator. Well, that, according to the article, has the solder-eating additives. He did recommend using distilled water, to avoid scale and mineral deposits, so he's not all wrong Hm?

It's hard to know what's inside that jug of anti-freeze on the store shelf. I want a plain old green ethylene-glycol antifreeze for my new (expensive) copper and brass radiator. What should I buy?

[Aaarrghh]

Another good article: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a91/1272436/

[MotorPro]

Are you saying you kept the flush in for 2weeks?

[Rickf1985]

Ordinary Ethylene glycol antifreeze is what you need. (the green stuff) It has worked for 60 years in copper and brass radiators. You do not need to worry about the specialty coolants until you get into the engines with dissimilar metals in the engines, aluminum heads and iron blocks.  If you left the cleaner in there for two weeks that pretty much explains the leaks, it is acid! Most new radiators are aluminum and they do cool better than the old ones, they also work with the old coolant just fine.

[K/C and Pups]

After much research - Peak makes a product called Conventional Green that meets GM 1825 specs. 95%Ethylene glycol.
Still searching the other products available.
I believe this antifreeze should be flushed, and replaced every year. I saw that somewhere in the manufactures website.
O'Reillys - No. Their conventional green product is "somewhat" compliant, but for all vehicles
Auto Zone -#AZA003 Their product / 89' and earlier / in stock - meets GM1825 specs
Peak - unable to find in stock - anywhere
NAPA - Can bring from warehouse today - Zerex (Valvoline) Original formula green # ZX001
Evidently manufacturers are eliminating the cat-killer (copper killer) ethylene glycol from the new antifreeze products

[turbinebronze]

You might want to look into this stuff.  Pricey, but might help a few people on here. I want to use it myself, but it looks like it would cost about $300.00 to upgrade....
   http://www.onallcylinders.com/2016/03/04/evans-cooling-waterless-cooling/


Just my 2 cents, Craig

[Aaarrghh]

Interesting, but as you say, pricey. That page does give a very detailed method of removing old coolant.

[Aaarrghh]

After much research - Peak makes a product called Conventional Green that meets GM 1825 specs. 95%Ethylene glycol.
Still searching the other products available.
I believe this antifreeze should be flushed, and replaced every year. I saw that somewhere in the manufactures website.
O'Reillys - No. Their conventional green product is "somewhat" compliant, but for all vehicles
Auto Zone -#AZA003 Their product / 89' and earlier / in stock - meets GM1825 specs
Peak - unable to find in stock - anywhere
NAPA - Can bring from warehouse today - Zerex (Valvoline) Original formula green # ZX001
Evidently manufacturers are eliminating the cat-killer (copper killer) ethylene glycol from the new antifreeze products

Wow, great information, thanks! I've read that old antifreeze should be changed every 2 years, but heck, every year is erring on the safe side. It's the corrosion inhibitors that lose their effectiveness.

What do you mean by "copper-killer" ethylene-glycol? Do you mean it's harmful to copper?

[Rickf1985]

I would love to see some real data on ethylene glycol damaging copper in radiators. I have been a master certified mechanic for over 40 years and never heard of any such thing nor have I ever seen any evidence of it. When radiators or heater cores were going bad consistently in a vehicle it was ALWAYS tracked down to stray electrical voltage. Evans waterless coolant has been tested to death and there is no evidence whatsoever that it is any better than water based coolants, just substantially more expensive. And that is backed by real world data. Ethylene glycol is being eliminated from antifreeze due to the fact it is poisonous to animals and it is being replaced with propylene glycol. There are MANY different kinds of coolant you can try in your system, if you want to know what will work best and safely then it is the same thing that was in there for 20 some years prior to you having problems. As far as changing it out, you can change it every year but that would not be the ecological way to do things. Why change out something that now has to be processed when it was not due to be changed? There is a reason the manufacturers give a schedule, believe me if they could get away with selling it more often they most certainly would!

[K/C and Pups]

Rick, you are correct. The real data probably does not exist. The copper killer was more of a joke gained from the various blogs this morning concerning the demise of the ethylene in antifreeze. The young fellow at Napa this morning told me the only "green" antifreeze he was aware of was eco - friendly type. Yes. they do market that line now. If you go to the Evans website, you will discover a review, or two, regarding how to remove said product from their system due to the creation of higher running temps.
I love this website. I have a lot to learn, and since my RV falls in the category of vintage, thanks to all.

[Rickf1985]

And MOST of us fall into the "Vintage" category also.

[M & J]

Some are antiques Rick.

[TerryH]

Or antiquated.

[Rickf1985]

Or just plain OLD!

[M & J]

Yeah, that too

[Aaarrghh]

Anyway...

I'm limited to what I can get (at a reasonable price). My first choice would be "STP® All Season Antifreeze/Coolant is a superior quality ethylene glycol based engine coolant with a low silicate corrosion inhibitor package. This product protects coolant system metals, including heat-rejecting aluminum, against pitting caused by cavitation and corrosion. It provides exceptional cooling in summer and excellent protection against freezing in the winter. It is recommended for use in older model domestic and foreign cars and light duty trucks", but the price is high - $68 for 2 gallons concentrate on eBay, after shipping charge. No local store has it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIFREEZE-ALL-SEASON-AUTO-/162106223085?hash=item25be48a9ed:g:JbcAAOSwvg9XYnHI#shpCntId

I checked Autozone but can't get any specs on the AZ003. Besides, my local Autozone hires bonehead clerks that don't know squat about auto mechanics, so I don't go there much. Same for Advance.  I get much better service at O'Reilly's.

O'Reilly can get me Zerex Original Green, probably for a lot less cash. It's likely the best choice. Would you agree?
http://www.valvoline.com/our-products/antifreeze-products/zerex-original-green-antifreeze

Ancient fart over and out ...

[Aaarrghh]

Why change out something that now has to be processed when it was not due to be changed?

Because.. it's not green anymore -it's brown! W%

[K/C and Pups]

The Auto zone product is for vehicles '89 and earlier. I can find nothing else about it other than it is ethylene glycol. It is green in color.
I bought 2 gallons at $13 ea.
The Zerex, a Valvoline product, and maybe better, was my first choice, but when I went to pick it up, they had shipped over the 50/50 mix at $18 ea.
This was a timely thread as I need to flush my cooling system, now.
Thanks

[Rickf1985]

Just remember that anything that advertises 50/50 is already mixed and you are paying for the convenience of them doing the mixing. From what the last quote said you are actually paying more for half the antifreeze! 50/50 is already mixed, regular good old fashioned green concentrate is a gallon of stuff you mix with a gallon of water to get TWO gallons of anti freeze. Do the math.
Damn, I remember not all that long ago a gallon of antifreeze was four or five bucks!

[Aaarrghh]

I tried to order the Zerex from O' today (Sat), but their source won't open till Monday. Also they want prepayment for this special order. Unusual. I'll be sure to have them get the concentrate.

The man at O's who's helped me a lot over the past 1 1/2 years as I've resurrected my TARDIS tried to get me to buy the O'Reilly conventional green. I pointed out that nowhere on the container did it say anything about GM1825. I was relieved to have that excuse, because I just didn't want it.

Speaking of concentrate, when I drain my radiator, I get just over a gallon of fluid out. In an 18 quart system, that leaves about 3 gallons of plain water in the motor, after rinsing. How am I supposed to achieve a 50/50 mix, even by pouring in concentrate? I need to get at least 2 gallons of concentrate back in!

[Rickf1985]

There is a block drain on each side of the engine right by the motor mount. It is just a pipe plug, pull that out and you may have to poke something in there to clear the hole. That will drain the block. If you have rear heat you will need to take the lines off up front and blow them out with LOW pressure. Try to catch the water that comes out so you have an idea how much antifreeze to add since that will not be considered into the system. That will get most, but not all of the water out of the system. You know you have an 18 quart system so that is 2 gallons of concentrate.  After you drive it for a few weeks you can have it tested for strength and if it is too far off you may need to drain some out and add concentrate. If it is too strong you will be alright.

[beaverman]

Just remember that anything that advertises 50/50 is already mixed and you are paying for the convenience of them doing the mixing. From what the last quote said you are actually paying more for half the antifreeze! 50/50 is already mixed, regular good old fashioned green concentrate is a gallon of stuff you mix with a gallon of water to get TWO gallons of anti freeze. Do the math.
Damn, I remember not all that long ago a gallon of antifreeze was four or five bucks!

Dang Rick, YOU ARE OLD !!!!!!!!!!!! :)rotflmao :)rotflmao but... I remember that too so I guess I'm a fossil also! I remember when that 50/ 50 first came out and I thought are people really that stupid that they can't figure out how to mix half of one thing and half of another? or to figure that when they buy that stuff their getting ripped off? guess they are !

[Froggy1936]

I never worry about changing antifreeze according to any schedule , You can add just the anti rust and lubricant chemicals alone as they are the only part that wears out If you have a lot of rust or dirty system then youhave no choice, Also I save the old stuff to use for winterizeing the sinks and shower drains also pour some into the empty grey and black tanks to take care of any water left (cannot be used in the fresh water system !) Pep boys and Advance carry the full strength stuff ! Frank

[Aaarrghh]

I bought one of those reverse flush kits where you put a tee in a heater hose. The final step after the flush says to leave the tee open, close the radiator drain, and add the correct amount of concentrate to the radiator. The concentrate is supposed to displace the extra water, which flows out the tee. Seems like it would be easier than removing old rusted block drains (I haven't tried to -yet). Has anyone gone this route?

[M & J]

Yes, and the drain plugs break off flush as often as they come out. Your route is safer.