Faster Charge?

Fearless1 · August 17, 2016, 09:01 PM

Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 16, 2016, 06:23 PM
Not sure if an Allegro has a transfer switch or not.
If it does, then it should automatically change over to the generator when the generator is started.
If not, then you have to plug the shore power cable into a generator output receptacle that is normally in the same compartment as the shore power cable.

Would using an adapter to plug shore power cable into standard 110 volt receptacle in coach powered by GenSet be the same?

Fearless1 · August 18, 2016, 12:27 PM

Hooked up shore power cord to coach AC receptacle powered by 6.5 GenSet - 124.5 volts. Same Results on AC unit. There's an encasement wedged tight behind commode (see pic) 12" high and 5" wide, so the inside would be about 11" x 4". Rick said the converter would be about the size of a shoebox. Is that enough room for a converter? What are the odds that the converter is in that encasement? I'm running out of places to look. i??

fasteddie313 · August 18, 2016, 01:06 PM

Unhook your batteries and turn some 12v stuff on, plug into shore power, generator off so you can hear..

Do your lights work like this? If they do then your converter is running and should be humming/buzzing that 60hz tune..

Find that thing that is humming.. That is your converter.. So you can find it by sound..

Put your ear right to the wall like a cowboy on a train track.. Or a stethoscope, or the dowel/screwdriver method if necessary..

Fearless1 · August 18, 2016, 03:21 PM

Thanks Fast Eddie, excellent idea. Only one small obstacle - No Shore Power

Boon-Docking. Problem with engine so may be a while before can drive to Shore Power.

fasteddie313 · August 18, 2016, 03:52 PM

You have an AC inverter?

Rickf1985 · August 18, 2016, 04:30 PM

If you are going to suggest he plug shore power into the inverter even for a test that could be bad if he is having trouble recharging. That would deplete the batteries very quickly.

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 18, 2016, 06:03 PM

The 110VAC to 12VDC converter you are trying to locate would be feeding the DC Fuse panel (The 2 black wires on the left side of the right side panel in this picture)

I would see if you can follow those 2 wires back to the converter. Be aware that one of those 2 wires may go to the house battery and the other to the converter.

Please note one of those AC breakers should feed the converter.

BTW: until you work your way through this, Yes, you can hook up an external charger to charge the house batteries by connecting the charger to a 12VAC generator source.

Rickf1985 · August 18, 2016, 06:31 PM

120 VAC source. Figured I would clarify that since we are also working with 12 volt here.

fasteddie313 · August 18, 2016, 06:57 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on August 18, 2016, 04:30 PM
If you are going to suggest he plug shore power into the inverter even for a test that could be bad if he is having trouble recharging. That would deplete the batteries very quickly.

It would make it hum so he could find it.. But yes deplete his battery..

Fearless1 · August 18, 2016, 09:21 PM

Yes, I have a 2000 Watt inverter. Good thinking Fast Eddie and Rick. I'll do that tomorrow, can always recharge batteries with the GenSet and a battery charger. Those two heavy black wires feeding the DC Panel go into the ceiling inside the cabinet. Thanks Dave, I thought it would help using the GenSet and a battery charger for faster charge to house batteries.

Say Goodnight Gracie.

"Goodnight Gracie"

Rickf1985 · August 19, 2016, 10:15 AM

Get your batteries FULLY charged before doing the inverter thing because they are going to take a big hit and you need enough to start the generator if your engine is not running.

tiinytina · August 22, 2016, 06:38 AM

The inverter/converter is under the fridge if yours is like mine. Mine doesn't charge the coach batteries well though. I usually charge those with a trickle charger before each trip with the rig unplugged from shore power. I also found that my inverter just through road vibration the ground was loose so I check that regularly.

tiinytina · August 22, 2016, 06:42 AM

and yes.. on Tiffins.. the coach batteries are on drivers side, the inverter is on passenger side, all fuses are in back at ceiling above where power comes into rig which is under the bed... One has to wonder what engineers were thinking when they designed these.. obviously not thinking about maintenance after the fact....

Fearless1 · August 23, 2016, 11:08 PM

Did the inverter sound trick and Rick was right. Just a couple of minutes, less than five, and those two 100 AH batteries went from 12.64 to 12.46. Yep, that's a Big Lick. Though I heard something, took out the built-in microwave - Nada. Maybe my loss of bilateral hearing came into play. i?? Wanting to kill some time, I called Red Bay to get put on hold. W% In a little less than an hour though, after speaking to three different personnel, I was told the converter was in one of the places that I had already looked. Yeah, Right. Nothing said about under the Frig, on the opposite side from everything else. In the pic, the AC cord coming out at the bottom of the unit plugs into a wall receptacle and those two small wires for the DC don't look big enough to charge the batteries. Gotta run up the wall, across the ceiling, and down to the batteries. Thanks Tina, and you're right, they must have been wacky engineers who concocted that design. Wonder if they got a good laugh out of it? I did.

Now that I've found it, it's like a monkey with a football. What do I do with it? i??

Rickf1985 · August 24, 2016, 12:35 PM

Replace it with a modern three or four stage unit. They charge faster and maintain much better without overcharging the batteries.

Fearless1 · August 25, 2016, 10:34 AM

That's what I thought too Rick - get a new one. That one is riveted together, no access. Just a box with AC cord coming out one side and two DC wires coming out the other side. What would be the appropriate size wire to run to batteries after replacing unit? Those wires look small to run about 30 feet to charge batteries. I'm considering changing location to other side, closer to batteries. But, with a new unit, would changing location be that beneficial? i??

turbinebronze · August 25, 2016, 10:57 AM

I was wondering-Why couldn't you replace the inverter with a good sized battery tender? I installed a 5 amp battery tender after speaking with the company about load against the tender. As long as there is a battery in the circuit, they said it would not hurt the tender. I don't have to worry about overcharging the batteries because it is a float charger.
They do make them in the 40 amp range if I remember right.
Just a thought....

Rickf1985 · August 25, 2016, 12:38 PM

You are best off getting a unit that is made for the purpose of charging RV batteries from a low charge to full and maintaining PLUS also running all of the 12 volt accessories in the coach. A Battery Tender is mainly for maintaining batteries at float charge, I have never seen a 40 amp battery tender.

turbinebronze · August 25, 2016, 04:10 PM

Sorry, it was a 20 amp, dual output. This is what I was thinking of.
http://www.batterytender.com/Chargers/Heavy-Duty-DVD-40-Modified-12V-12V-Dual-12V-20A.html

Rickf1985 · August 25, 2016, 04:33 PM

For 600 dollars! The ones like the Boondocker I have do basically the same thing, mine will charge at 45 amps until the battery reaches a certain charge and then it drops to a much lower rate and when fully charged it switches to a float charge. All the while it will also handle the loads of the RV separately.

turbinebronze · August 25, 2016, 05:12 PM

It was a thought. Sorry.

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 25, 2016, 06:33 PM

Backstep a bit and think about what your objective here is.
Converter
A) Provides 12VDC to rig when 110VDC is available (Shore Power or generator)
B) Recharges house battery.

Older linear style models, like in your picture, normally did not have a float mode so even though the current was greatly reduced, the voltage level at rest was around 13.6VDC. This voltage value resulted in boiling a battery dry. The older converters can be compared to a car charging system in that they increase current and voltage based on battery condition and system load requirements. They ramp down like an car charging system until they are just mantaining the current load requirements.
Modern 3 or 4 stage chargers use a float (Stage 3) value of 13.2VDC which does not boil the battery dry. They also have a bulk charge mode (Stage 1) use for fast recovery of a battery (the real answer to you faster charge question). The normal mode (Stage 2), is used 1) once the battery has been recharged and you have loads that need power and 2) to finish off the battery charge at the end of a bulk charge. It drops to Float mode once there are no load requirements to protect the battery. The fourth stage is a periodic high voltage value, ~15VDC, used to agitate the battery electrolite in order to clean the lead plates. That is what drives the recommendation to upgrade to a modern converter.

While that Battery Tender referenced could be used to recharge a battery, it does not support the converter normal mode and may not have the clean DC signal of a modern converter.

Moving the converter closer to the battery is always good because you can use smaller wire to distribute the current and the converter sense circuits react to the battery condition much better. Wire size selection is a function of converter size in amps (larger converter, larger wire needed to handle the potential current output) and wiring run length (farther away the larger wire that is needed).

tiinytina · August 26, 2016, 08:25 AM

In Gone there would be room to move the converter to under the dinette seat which is next to the driver side battery box, though that holds a few power related items already....also now holds our subwoofer from the computer based 12V sound system we use as well.

If you do go with a newer converter... LMK as I may follow suit.... i've had to replace gone's coach batteries about every 3 years thus far... though I keep mine topped off.

Fearless1 · August 28, 2016, 03:22 PM

Acting on Rick's suggestion, I checked out the Boondocker ("B") 45 amp converter. Nice unit.

Checked out the site, checked out Ebay, then went fishing on the "River" and found the same unit, minus the "B" for $115 - $34 less, free shipping - Whatta Deal.

Only differences noted was "B" had 3 yr. warranty - without "B", 2 yr. Without "B" also listed Bulk Mode - 14.7 v. to "B" - 14.6 v.; Absorption Mode: Without "B" - 13.8 v. to "B" - 13.6 v. Without "B" slightly higher in both categories. Hm? I'll probably order the "Without" before Dark 30.

I'll keep you pos

Rickf1985 · August 28, 2016, 06:52 PM

Quote from: Fearless1 on August 28, 2016, 03:22 PM
Acting on Rick's suggestion, I checked out the Boondocker ("B") 45 amp converter. Nice unit. Checked out the site, checked out Ebay, then went fishing on the "River" and found the same unit, minus the "B" for $115 - $34 less, free shipping - Whatta Deal. Only differences noted was "B" had 3 yr. warranty - without "B", 2 yr. Without "B" also listed Bulk Mode - 14.7 v. to "B" - 14.6 v.; Absorption Mode: Without "B" - 13.8 v. to "B" - 13.6 v. Without "B" slightly higher in both categories. Hm? I'll probably order the "Without" before Dark 30. I'll keep you pos

HUH?

? I have no idea what you are talking about with the "B" thing? I bought mine through Randy at Best convertors and would never go anywhere else do to his expert advice and customer service after the sale.