Ignition 1975 Winnebago 440-3 Part Numbers

LJ-TJ · October 16, 2016, 10:18 AM

(Dodge Motor Home Chassis Service Manual Models M-300,M-375,RM-300,RM-350,RM-400 Pg8-83,54)

Ballast Resistor V16251 ICR24 Resistor/Resistance (Purchased at NAPA) $7.29

Voltage Regulator NAPA V15322 VR38SB (Purchased at NAPA) $19.49

Electronic Ignition Control Unit NAPA TP50 (Not purchased that day unavailable) $45.49

Electronic Ignition Control Unit MPI 2-7096 MPI CBE5 (Purchased at O'Reillys) $31.91

Explanation: I could have purchased the Electronic Ignition Control Unit from NAPA unfortunately they didn't have it in the store. They could have gotten it for me the next day but I needed it today.
The Electronic Ignition Control Unit purchased from O'Reillys is Guaranteed for one year or one replacement.

Now to my fellow mechanical neophytes since we're not as talented as some here. I won't mention any names RICK /Dave >GRIN< to figure out if our old stuff is broke or not I suggest for a modest investment of $58.70 you can carry all of it new on board and most not all the time but most of the time it will get you home. By the way RICK/DAVE thanks for being so patients with us guys.

Rickf1985 · October 16, 2016, 10:38 AM

Well, as one of those "unmentioned" names, I would wholeheartedly agree that bringing along a spare set of ignition parts is a very wise decision.

This older stuff can go tits up at any time and the Dodge electronic modules were not known for their outstanding dependability. I always carry spare belts, plugs, coil, a couple of longer plug wires, cap and rotor and fuel filters. Since I do not pull a toad for the most part if I break down it is up to me to get going or be towed. So I at least keep the basics on hand. Even if I need to be towed I have most of what will be needed by any mechanic wherever I go just in case it is not available.

LJ-TJ · October 16, 2016, 02:46 PM

Ok so this may or may not be the right place for this.

The reason for all the ignition parts is for no reason after shutting down for the night the 440 would start in the morning to the point that I ground down the battery to dead. The carb was covered in gas. The only way it would start is to keep turning it over on the starter until it actually started to run on it's own. I wouldn't idle and is sounded like it had a 3/4 race cam in it. I change the electronic ignition on it but didn't make any difference. It also started to backfire through the carb and out of know were started run on. Haaaaaaaaaaa. So I'm thinking of buying this.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sum-210236/overview/

Rickf1985 · October 16, 2016, 08:15 PM

I hate to say it but it sounds like it jumped time. The first thing I would check is the play in the timing chain.

LJ-TJ · October 16, 2016, 09:01 PM

I was afraid you were going to say that. I kinda thought that myself. Just didn't want to go there. i?? It's a bit of a project. I'll let you know how I make out. Would it show up on the timing light and the and the timing. Hm?

Rickf1985 · October 16, 2016, 09:43 PM

If you have not moved the distributor from when it ran good then yes, it will show up as drastically changed timing. If you see that then the qualifier is to put a wrench on the bolt on the crankshaft pulley and have someone watch the distributor. Move the pulley one way until they see the distributor move and then go the other way and have them yell as soon as it moves. It should not have much lag at all. I try to do this with the timing mark lined up when I stop turning the initial turn so that when I go back the other way I have a reference point to see how far I went. A chalk mark in line with any mark available will suffice. If using the timing marks then 2-3 degrees is all it should have for play. A chain that jumped will have a lot more than that.

LJ-TJ · October 16, 2016, 09:56 PM

Good stuff. I haven't touched the distributor. That's why I figured it might have been something to do with the ignition electronics failing. Hm?

legomybago · October 17, 2016, 10:07 AM

QuoteThe carb was covered in gas. The only way it would start is to keep turning it over on the starter until it actually started to run on it's own. I wouldn't idle and is sounded like it had a 3/4 race cam in it.

You flooded it! When it finally fire up, the cylinders were all loaded up with fuel making it misfire etc until it clears itself out....If you ever "flood" any gasoline engine, hold your foot to the floor on the accelerator while cranking it over, it will then start. This works on All gas engines.

turbinebronze · October 17, 2016, 11:46 AM

Like Rick said, it might have jumped timing. You could crank the engine over by hand to the TDC mark and pull the dist. cap and see where it's pointed. Should be real close to #1 or #6.
With gas all over the carb, I'd tend to think it's flooded. And if it has Champion plugs in it, it could bang and snort. Those plugs tend to foul out easy.
As a side note, if your still running the original gear reduction starter, pick up a starter from a 318/360 Magnum engine. You will have to play with the wiring to hook it up, but it will spin the engine over surprisingly quick.
Just my 2 cents....

LJ-TJ · October 17, 2016, 12:51 PM

OK! So just went out to try and start it and it caught for a mil a second. Not enough to keep running and then caught again but not long enough to keep running and then just started spinning over and over with nothing. I put the gas peddle to the floor and left it there. Didn't pump it and kept the key on the hole time waiting for it to catch. Nothing. After the first few mil a second fires it just spun over. Nothing and the battery started to go flat.

legomybago · October 17, 2016, 02:03 PM

1) Does it fire as you let the key off? Or when you held the key in the "crank" position?
2) Does the carb have fuel in it? Pull the air cleaner off and pump the throttle and check.

LJ-TJ · October 17, 2016, 02:08 PM

OK! Had to move it so went out to start it and the same thing happend except I kept the key in the run position and after a few backfires with the key on she caught. Except when I let off on the gas expecting it to stop it kept running and perfectly. Idled a 600 rpm and sounded great. Hmmmmmmmmm beats me. I'm thinking it's got something to do with the carb but I don't understand the back firing.

LJ-TJ · October 17, 2016, 02:54 PM

Yeah know it's the darn est thing.She runs like a dream. I focus all my attention on getting the furnace up and running,the generator up and running so's we can go away for a trouble free weekend. She runs like a dream to destination and then goes for a shoot. Yeah just can't win. Fight with her all the way home. BUT I got's a weak spot in my heart for this old girl and I just ain't ready to give up on her yet.

Rickf1985 · October 17, 2016, 05:12 PM

Well, it is not the timing chain. I think you flooded it and gas fouled the plugs, You got lucky on it catching on the battery dying but I have had that happen several times myself.

LJ-TJ · October 17, 2016, 05:19 PM

You wonder why I crazy. I just went out to move it and it fired up normal. BUT I can guarantee you it I go out tomorrow wont start.Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

joanfenn · October 17, 2016, 05:42 PM

:)rotflmao poor guy. I almost feel for you. N:(

DaveVA78Chieftain · October 17, 2016, 09:50 PM

It could be that the mechanical advance mechanism or vacuum advance plate is sticking resulting in the timing being way off. That could cause the problem to come and go.

BTW Thread title may need to changed to intermittent Ignition Issues

Rickf1985 · October 18, 2016, 01:10 PM

Throttle full out, mixture lean, mag off. Turn engine two full revolutions. Throttle 1/3, mixture rich, mag on, all clear, CONTACT!

Oh, sorry....................... simpler place and time!

:)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao

legomybago · October 18, 2016, 01:31 PM

When I was at the FMC Rally a few weeks ago, one of the other owners explained to me what "flood starting" is. I'd never heard of it. They used to flood start helicopters due to the high engine hp ratings to prevent shearing generator shafts. Your comment Rick reminded me of that kinda.

Froggy1936 · October 18, 2016, 03:07 PM

TJ Sounds like moisture inside Dist on coil/ wires Are you parked on grass Very bad for moisture probs Frank

Rickf1985 · October 18, 2016, 03:18 PM

You can lightly flood a high compression engine to get it to turn without kicking back but that is a dangerous game. If you flood it to much you can hydrolock it and then really bad things happen like bent rods and broken rings. You don't have to worry to much about that with the low compression engines we are running in these things. And even the high compression engine have the high torque starters now so that is also a thing of the past.

TJ ought to recognize my little joke in my previous post.

Elandan2 · October 18, 2016, 03:54 PM

Yeah Rick, it mighta been a "simpler place and time" but I bet the guy spinning the propeller didn't think so!!

LJ-TJ · October 18, 2016, 05:10 PM

Naw, Hand propping is a piece of cake. Do it all the time on our 1948 Aeronca L-16's. Shoot Rick I'm thinking I'm one of the few who appreciates your sents of humor. D:oH!

Rickf1985 · October 18, 2016, 07:56 PM

I have hand propped quite a few oldies and the BIG thing to remember is to always follow through, and keep on going! If you trip and fall, STAY down! just roll over and be sure you are not going to become a wheel chock.

moezart · November 14, 2016, 11:42 PM

I've been having similar issues. I had it running good for the day, then wake up the next morning and nothing. After replacing starter relay, then, solenoid. It would start up, but rough. I pulled the top of the carb, which is a rebuilt, and it was filled with bad settlement from my old tank. I then pulled the carb, and sprayed carb cleaner through out. Reattached the carb to the intake, and fired right up without further issues. Maybe your carb is dirty inside? A jet could be clogged. Did you run it on empty?