1972 Chieftain Winnebago A.K.A 'Where Dogs Lie'

[moezart]

It was 100 in. lb. for the valve body bolts. Conversion chart shows 8.33 ft lb. I'm thinking that is my problem, unfortunately. Harbor Frieght has a in. lb. Torque wrench for $10. I was trying to be cheap, but didn't realize HF would carry one so cheap either. The loner tools at O'rielly was a ft. lb. wrench and only went down to 25 pounds. I'm going to test it without the linkages attached first, before I get back into the tranny. Heck, I just might run it over to the tranny shop that gave me a .25" check ball that was missing.

[legomybago]

Sounds to me like you should have tightened the valve body a little tighter than a valve cover, snug. I'm not a tranny guy though....
The done rod from your carb needs to be all the way back (or close to) at full throttle, then at idle, with your carb linkage all the way forward, the down rod "return spring" will hold the down rod up close almost tight to the carb linkage.

[moezart]

I took the linkages off, and adjusted my front band some more, and it's shifting better now. It kinda of shimmers, then shifts. I'm going to tighten it some more to see what happens. Worse case, I drop the pan, get the cheapie in. lb. Torque wrench and make sure the valve body bolts are torqued to specs. I've honestly always done this by feel with no problems, but shouldn't now on. I have a nice Snap-on wrench at home "kicking myself"

I will use that procedure for the kick down rod M&J, thanks 

[LJ-TJ]

Well I'd say it's better to error on the side of caution. For $10.00 and an hours fiddling around knowing the bolts are torqued right you'll be a head of the game. Plus it will give you piece of mind knowing you did it right when your a few 100 mile into the trip at track speed trouble free. Hm?

[CapnDirk]

Be careful on adjusting the bands without a torque wrench as well, you can give yourself other problems.


I don't think your problem would be related to the valve body not being tightened enough on install.


Can you give us your best description of what it is doing/not doing?

[Rickf1985]

 I give them a good snug. Anyone with any wrenching experience will usually know when to stop. It sounds like your throttle pressure is not set right, Assuming you have the bands set correctly and you got all the check balls in the right spots. Make sure the throttle rod is returning all the way at idle with the return spring and that it advances with the throttle. You also have to be sure the linkage was installed correctly for that arm. That frond band need to be adjusted up snug and then backed out a set number of turns. The shift kit should have that number, it is usually around 1- 1 1/2. I have had to go as far as five on some that have had pressure modifications done to them. That can get hairy because you can drop the band strut if you go too far.

You did make sure the pistons and bores of the valve body were spotless before putting it all back together right? Any tiny piece of dirt in one of those bores will hang a shift valve.

Did you readjust the line pressure?

[moezart]

When I did the kit. I followed every part, except for tightening the band, knowing I didn't have a torque wrench. When I took the valve body apart is when I noticed checkball in location 4 was missing. A transmission shop a block away had one. I was able to continue. Before assembly I cleaned both transfer plate and separator plate with carb cleaner and made sure I sprayed the passages as well. I pulled converter valve and pressure regulator valve, cleaned both before reinstalling. I kept check balls 1-6, 6 being 11/32. I did the heavy duty install, not street/strip. After assembling the valve body, I adjusted the pressure regulator plate to a 1.25"
I never did take the park rod out, but disconnected it from the valve body instead at the c-clip. When installing the valve body again, I tightened bolts inside first, continued to outside bolts, and crossing sides till tight. I've wrenched long enough to know when a bolt is about to snap. They all had the same tightness so to speak. At this point, I still never did touch either band, internal, nor shifting band, outside on driver side. I cleaned my mounting surface for my pan. Cleaned all debris from pan and surface, and installed pan with criss crossing tightening pattern. Again by feel. My pan does not leak. Before start up. I adjusted my shift cable to linkage, this is when I noticed my linkage was broken from the pinch bolt setup. I now have one on order. I filled the transmission with 4 qts, started it up and let it warm up. I checked level and added fluid until it showed full. I put it in drive and felt it kick in.
This is when I noticed in drive it struggled moving the RV, like it was slipping. At one point it shimmered, or vibrated into gear? Reverse is strong. I took it once around the block and was not happy. Today, I took both linkages off to rule them out, and tightened the band. It did work better, but still felt weak, like was still having a hard time moving it. I never gained enough speed to go into another gear. I tighten the band by a half turn, and installed the shifter cable to the linkage. It did not make a big difference. Afraid to tightened the band anymore, I gave up. I went to HF and picked up the inch pound torque wrench.
I feel at this point I need to drop the pan a check my torque specs on the valve body bolts. Check pan for debris, and re-torque band.
Once I get it reassembled, I will do the procedure of the kick down rod like M&J posted.
See anything I missed?

[LJ-TJ]

Good man sounds like you got a good jump on it.

[M & J]

It was Legomybago who gave you the kick down adjustment.

[Rickf1985]

Do not be afraid to add an extra quart of fluid, On my pick up I chased a problem similar to yours and it turned out to be low fluid regardless of what the dipstick says. After your test drive check to see if there are any bubbles on the dipstick, if there are add more fluid. If the dipstick is showing right at full but it is still acting up add half a quart and see if it makes a difference, if it does add the other half quart.

[moezart]

Wow, I think you are onto something there Rick. It does show bubbles when I check the dipstick. I definitely will do that. I was afraid to add more, because it says not to overfill.
Sorry legomybago, M&J my brain is on information overload.
I picked up a cheap, clean catch all container from Walmart to drop the pan. I want to utilize as much fluid as I can. Since I have everything, I'm going in and checking my torque on the valve body bolts. I'm figuring out going cheap up front cost more in the long run. I'm going to do the band with torque specs as well. It will make my mind a little more at ease.

[moezart]

This is never a good sign    I'm starting to wonder if I will ever get home. I dropped the pan, and yes, the valve body bolts were overly tightened. I set them at 35 inch lbs. Re-installed the pan, setting the torque on the front band. Getting ready for another test drive.

[LJ-TJ]

WOW! Hang in there it can only get better. 

[Rickf1985]

That residue is perfectly normal wear of the clutches. When you see metallic flake or chunks then worry. I usually wash out the pan and clean the magnet when I do any trans job. There is not much circulation of oil in the pan so that stuff just settles to the bottom and will remain there until cleaned out. Looking at the pan gasket you tightened the pan too tight also, be sure the bolt holes are flat with the pan rail and if they are not then tap them down flat with a hammer. Do not tighten until the gasket squeezes out, that will give you a leak. It is real hard to overfill a transmission, if it is grossly overfilled it will puke the extra out the vent. I have two and a half quarts over the full mark in mine. That is where the bubbles stopped and it started acting right. One unpleasant possible reason for that to happen could be a warped valve body and it is sucking air between the valve body and the trans case. Fill it high enough and that seam is covered. Is it right? No. will it work? Has for me for several thousand miles. It will get you home and you can worry about what to do about it later. 727 transmissions are a dime a dozen in the junkyards. Of coarse it will need to be rebuilt but they are also the next easiest one to rebuild next to the Chevy 400. You can do it yourself in the garage.

[moezart]

Thanks bud, you are a lifesaver! Will do. Yeah, everything got the torque wrench this time. I'm going to wait on the test drive until I get my new shifter linkage, that should be Tuesday or Wednesday. . .time to check other people's project to get more ideas. LOL.

[moezart]

Well, I finally received the shifter linkage, and adjusted everything. It goes into gear correctly now. I added additional fluid and would run around the block, put it into neutral and check the level. I added more fluid until I was satisfied. It was still slow at take off, but not like putting it in gear and go. I would have to rev it up for it to start to move. Then when rolling, it would fluctuate, like it was pumping? Anycase, I'm taking it to this transmission shop tomorrow. So much for saving cash 

[legomybago]

Should put a temp gauge on the "new" tranny if it doesn't already have one.....sorry to hear.

[LJ-TJ]

They say misery likes company. So here we are. Most of us here have been there, done that and feel your pain. Hey look on the bright side now you'll be able to go coast to coast and through the mountains. Woopeeeee. Gray skies are going to clear up, put on a happy face. Brush off those clouds and cheer up,put on a happy face. Spread'n sunshine all over the place so put on a happy face. So put on a happy face. :)rotflmao

[moezart]

I didn't want to put anymore money into this transmission, and was looking forward to changing out to a A518 tranny, and getting into another whole heap of a mess, but it would add another gear. Ho-hum, take out the guitar and strum some chords.

[Rickf1985]

You have a valve hung up or the line pressure is not right. Or a combination of both. No matter the valve body has to come out again and best it is done by someone familiar with them. The bad is like any trans shop the very first thing they tell you is the transmission is bad.

[moezart]

You were right Rick. They said they smelled burnt clutches and wanted to rebuild it. I'm sure you were right about the stuck valve and the line pressure. I cranked it down like the kit says to do. Oh well, they will have it done Saturday. My next stop, or lay over will be Henderson, Nevada. Since it's taken so long to get my stuff together, I'm connecting with my father to drive up to Montana. Now, with this extreme cold front hitting the Northwest, I'll be facing bad road conditions. Crap, crap, and crap.
I haven't checked to see if my heater works, it will turn into a ice box. Another is probably adjusting the thermoquad carburetor from time to time. The idle seems a little high, does that adjust when I adjust the air fuel mixture screws? I adjust each screw until rpms drop off, right?
Any winter driving tips?

[LJ-TJ]

Tips on winter driving. TAKE YOUR TIME. Give yourself lots of distance between you and the guy in front of you. Remember it will take you longer to stop so allow for it. Do not get "GET-THERE-ITIS" Again take your time and if you can drive on dry/clear roads. See if the heater works as you'll need it for your defrosters. Push comes to shove buy a Buddy heater. It'll take the edge off. i??

[legomybago]

Get a set a tire chains and make sure your heater works....Read up on the Thermoquad carburetor on line, If that's what you have? Just do a basic idle mixture and idle rpm adjustment before your trip, you should be fine on your journey.

[Rickf1985]

The mixture screws do not adjust the rpm. There is a idle rpm screw on the throttle linkage in the side of the carburetor. Bring the idle down to around 650, make sure the choke is off. Then set your idle mixture screws for highest idle. If you have a vacuum gauge you are looking for highest vacuum. Leave them there, you are not worried about emissions. Make SURE the hot air tube from the exhaust manifold to the air cleaner is in place and that the vacuum lines going to the air cleaner are all on. Then just hope it all works so that your carb does not ice up! I agree that you have to have heat for the defrosters, if you do not have thenm it will frost up the windshield and you will be out of luck, A heater buddy will not help there. I just threw one of those old electric window blower/defrosters in the trash. I don't think it went out yet. I can send it to you if you think you will get it in time. I am pretty sure it works, I am in cleaning mode and have no use for it.

[moezart]

Thanks for the tip guys. I have a vacuum guage and saw LJ-TJ's write up about that. Mixture does seem fine, so I won't mess with it, but will bring idle down. Plenty of space and chains, - CHECK.
I have fresh windshield wipers, and picked up rain-x, and defroster. I remember it working for me. I'll make sure the heater is working. Thanks Rick, but I'm ready to leave asap, likely Monday. I have plenty of blankets to cover windows, and for the bed.