Freezing and faulty propane regulator

[DRMousseau]

So SIMPLE in function and design, you would think they were fool-proof and would last forever,.... till one cold night!!! No furnace! No hot water! And only the stove top is MAYBE keeping you from freezing!!!! WHAT'S GOING ON?!?!?!


After long months of trouble-free comfort in sub-freezing weather, we sometimes get a nice warm sunny day of relief. No need for any of the above,... jus enjoy the comfortable day till sunset. Then the furnace comes on, and begins to warm up in the cool evening,.... when it all happens!!! IT'S GETTING COLDER!!! Nothing but blowing cold air from the furnace!!!   You shut it off, and turn it on again hoping to reset everything,... but it won't ignite or fire up. Out of gas??? NO WAY!!! You turn on the stove and light a burner,.... it works, or maybe not, sometimes adding to the confusion.


Unlike many older RVs, mine is equipped with a "manometer" right behind the stove top. A handy gauge of proper "gas" pressure,... and an indicator of possible "faults", such as empty cylinders, off, stuck or blocked valves, or in my case, excessive pressure that had prevented proper operation of the furnace. With no such "safety device" on the stove top, I could light the burners and watch the pressure drop to normal, only to see it rise to extreme again when shutting down the burner.


Further checks outside, finds the propane regulator heavily frosted with a surface temp of 30degrees BELOW ZERO!!!


NOW WHAT???


I shut off the main supply valve, and turned the stove on once more to reduce the pressure again. It took 30min to finally empty the line and drop the manometer reading to zero. VERY  unusual, as it typically takes only moments to empty the lines when the main is shut off. I then used a cup of hot water to "thaw out" the regulator. Within minutes, the regulator was at the ambient outdoor temperature same as all else nearby. Slowly turning on the main tank valve, the manometer indicated proper pressure, and everything functioned as normal again.


Till the NEXT warm day,.... and again, a frozen regulator in the evening.

[Elandan2]

Ha!! Reminds me of many taxi rides out west. Most of the cabs we rode in were propane fueled. The cab driver would want to fill his tank during our trips, to ensure us not running out. Of course it would be -30° or -40° outside and invariably the regulator would freeze up just after the cell signal faded out!! So usually, someone's hot coffee or tea would have to be sacrificed to thaw the regulator. Great fun! Rick

[stanDman111]

got to love that manometer , where can I get one, yes propane  can do funny things  during temp changes

[DRMousseau]

Well,.... part two here.


Those manometers ARE handy, but finding one isn't so easy. Mostly a specialized test instrument, measuring in column inches of water, used by service technicians to detect leaks and proper operation of the propane system. But if one can be found for a reasonable price, a handy person can easily install one in a convenient or reasonably usable place either temporarily for testing, or a permanent installation for monitoring.


They measure small variations on the LOW pressure side of the propane system AFTER the regulator. They can be helpful in detecting faulty gas solenoid valves in appliances, appliance shut-off valves, and tiny undetected leaks in the propane "plumbing" system. They can also help determine proper regulator operation and function. Mine happened to indicate unusual high pressures in the RV system, AND unusual fluctuations occasionally when appliances were in use. Both, indications of a faulty regulator.


So what does the regulator do??? It reduces the high unstable pressure of the supply tank to a safe and consistent low pressure  While the regulator will normally become slightly cooler than ambient temps, frosty super-sub-zero freezing regulators usually signal a serious problem. For as tough as they are, regulators CAN be damaged in any number of ways. Here's a great link to explain in bit more detail.
http://www.rvdoctor.com/2001/01/avoiding-pitfalls-of-rv-propane-system.html
AND, an excellent document on why these things might freeze!
http://www.documentation.emersonprocess.com/groups/public/documents/bulletins/d450146t012.pdf


Soooooooo,.... I've determined that my regulator is faulty. I can actually hear loud clicking sounds that correspond to the fluctuations in pressure that I noticed above. AND that freezing issue! I ordered a new replacement (should have got two,.. they don't cost much), and got the necessary tools ready for a rather easy job. Some simple wrenches, a fire extinguisher, soapy water, new regulator and coffee,.... you wanna be alert and really payin attention to details here!


BTW,... "thawing" a frozen regulator with an open flame, electrical heaters, blowers or anything that could cause possible ignition of propane, isn't really a good idea,... for obvious reasons. HOT water quickly, thoroughly, and SAFELY warms the typical alloyed casting of regulators quite efficiently!!! So good, that it will easily melt ice accumulations INSIDE and will take some time to cool the casting to ambient outside temps. Of course, you'll want to keep water OUT of the vent if possible, and allow the vent to drain well. The warm/hot casting will usually evaporate away any water and moisture in and on the regulator before cooling completely. Be safe!!

[DRMousseau]

Right away, I see a serious issue that will lead to problems,.... for some reason, the regulator vent is not directed properly. Note the small round vent at the far right of the pic below, is protected by a perforated "grate" covering to keep bugs and debris out AND to allow drainage of particles, moisture and condensate from the surrounding ambient air. It SHOULD BE directed downward. When buying a replacement, watch that the vent is located properly to allow for this when installed.


The unusual brass component between the tank valve and the regulator allows me some flexibility of use with my propane system. The blue cap, protects a port that can be used for external gas appliances like grills and BBQs, while the smaller port with the black hose allows auxiliary propane sources to be connected. Handy when the main tank is suddenly empty and I can temporarily use a 20# tank. Currently, it's connected to a 100gal external tank for the long cold winter. The main valve shown here is turn off when using external sources. Since the regulator wasn't removed when this fitting was installed, it remains in its original position. I should have corrected this at that time and may have prevented current problems. D:oH!

[DRMousseau]

STEP ONE!
FIRST,.... Shut off ALL source valves tightly, including main onboard tank supply and/or any auxiliary sources.


Next,... disconnect ALL propane sources by first relieve all system line pressures, either by slowly and carefully loosening main source connection at the supply tank, or as I did,... in relieving my unusually high system pressures, by lighting a stove burner and watching flame and manometer decrease. With pressure relieved, completely disconnect source lines. Always a good idea to wear protective gloves when disconnecting propane lines, as any unexpected escaping vapors or liquid can be dang cold and physically hurtful!!!!


With sources disconnected, you can now remove the connections to the regulator. AND LOOK WHAT I FOUND!!!! A gooey, honey like, greasy smelling emulsion, began dripping from the outlet of my regulator!!!! The entire propane system SHOULD be completely clean and dry!!! Most systems have a "loop", sometimes with a drain fitting, where such yucky stuff collects and should be attended to occasionally to prevent excess accumulations such as seen here. I found a good amount to drain from this loop too. The "loop" is usually lower than regulator and everything else in the system, and protects the regulator, RV "plumbing" and appliances from such goo and the damage it can cause. The cramped installations of RVs can limit this a bit, and mine provided no protection for the regulator as it should have. If you don't have a loop, you'll have more problems to contend with. Those previous links and articles will explain why it's so important.


The goo here, is a long term accumulation of particulate hydrocarbons and condensed moisture vapor that's naturally present in propane and propane storage sources in minute amounts. Old tanks can have a significant amount that MAY cause future problems. Regular servicing and inspection of RV propane systems includes draining and rinsing tanks and lines to prevent such accumulation problems and ensuing system failures as seen here.


So, now I know WHY my regulator failed, and HOW to prevent future problems. Any greater amounts of this gooey emulsion in my line after the regulator, COULD have resulted in a complete blockage in extreme cold conditions. That means even the stove would no longer operate!!!

[DRMousseau]

With regulator removed, I cleaned out all lines and fittings thoroughly with a suitable solvent (methyl alcohol is usually suggested), and reassembled with new regulator. THIS time, regulator is positioned to allow vent to drain.


With all fittings tight and secured, I can reconnect the main supply tank and slowly open the main supply valve. A quick check of my manometer shows proper pressure. With a flame held to a stove burner, I turn on the burner and it ignites as it should,.... then immediately goes out! Maintaining a flame to the burner, I can see AND hear a presense of vapor flow, but no ignition. Within moments, the air present in the line is completely replaced by propane and the burner ignites and burns steadily. I have jus "purged" the lines of air. Shut the burner off and now CHECK FOR LEAKS!!!!


A mix of dish detergent and water is best! DO NOT use a FLAME for leak detection!!! Should that be repeated? Hm?
DO NOT use a FLAME for leak detection!!!
Gas sniffers and detectors may not catch small leaking amounts, especially if a tiny unnoticed breeze is about. USE A SOAPY MIX!!! Even pros and suppliers use soap,.... and some regulations INSIST on a soapy test for leaks!


And within minutes, the tiny foamy mass of minute bubbles indicate a leak of the crimped hose fitting of the propane supplier. The connection is tight, as is all other connections,.... but in jus a few moments, the small leaky crimped fitting becomes very obvious. The supplier will replace the crimped fitting and/or entire hose. BTW,.... the fitting is very tight in the hose, doesn't twist or move, and can be very deceptive as it "seems" tight, solid, and secure. But those bubbles of foam show otherwise.


SO, there you have it. An easy repair/replacement and some preventative details to help prolong life and dependability of your propane system. This summer, I will closely inspect my onboard tank and service as necessary. AND, keep a few parts handy for unexpected repairs of my propane system. These will include a few low cost items, like an extra regulator, ignitors and flame sensors for water heater and furnaces, (and fridge if ya got such that may require one). They don't cost much, and if you don't use 'em, chances are your neighboring camper will be happy you have an extra!!!

[Rickf1985]

You are aware that they make a horizontal regulator and a vertical regulator right? The hole you reference must point down so you need to get the regulator that puts the vent in the proper position. It looks like you need a horizontal setup.

[DRMousseau]

Good point Rick,... AND a confusing one too. As well as the posted photo orientations. Both, the original and the replacement ARE horizontal models.

In this style of 2-stage regulator, vertical and horizontal references the line of axis from the inlet to the outlet, AND the respective vent location. Notice the vent is 90degrees to that axis in this regulator. That allows it to be directed downward in a "horizontal" mounting position.

A vertically mounted regulator requires that the vent be in line with the axis (directly over the outlet) and is again pointed downward to prevent debris and moisture accumulation from inside the regulator.

A vertical mounts requires the inlet to be above, and a loop below that rises to protect systems of regulator, lines and appliances. The horizontal mount has a loop after the regulator, that dips below the regulator and rises to the following lines and system. The bottom of either loop, usually has a capped "T" to allow drainage and servicing.

In BOTH mountings, the plastic "disk" cap should be accessible from the side of the regulator and should not be on top of the regulator as often and mistakenly found. This cap provides access to adjustments of the regulator. Most such regulators are factory adjusted to 11 column inches of water pressure and should NOT be altered by the consumer.

I personally feel that vertical models are marginally, more trouble-free than horizontal models. BOTH should have a protective cover that totally or partially covers the regulator and provides added protection from dirt, water, and damage. These are especially important in mountings such as mine, that may only have limited "splash guards". Others, such as "vented cabinets" that hold 20# cylinders, common to older Brave's and RVs, may have no added cover as they are completely enclosed in a cabinet.

[Rickf1985]

I honestly did not know the difference between the two but I know they are different and need to be in the right orientation. I verified that with my local propane guy who had no financial stake in the answer since he did not carry mobile stuff.
I don't know if the propane gauge inside the units classifies as a true manometer. A Manometer is a U shaped tube with colored water in it and graduated on both sides. What you have there is a very low pressure gauge. They both do the same thing but I am not sure they are both Manometers. A real manometer is going to be much more accurate, I think the gauge is basically just a telltale to let you know if you have close to enough pressure and if you have a leak. I know the gauge in the reefer compartment of the Winnebago's is marked as just that, a leak checker. It has a set needle that you set to the gauge pressure then you turn off the gas and look at the gauge later to see if the gauge reads lower than the set needle. I know my gauge is nowhere even close to my actual pressure.

[brians1969]

Something I found out recently when putting a new regulator in, is that the regulators now have a safety feature that mostly shuts off the supply if it detects a rapid flow.  I was having problems when connecting 20lb tanks (my system is the old "tanks in the cabinet type.")
I did a Youtube search as to the problem (there are many videos about it)..and sure enough, you have to open the tank valve slowly so the regulator doesn't think there is a massive leak. Most people notice the problem on their propane grills- they try to light them and they only get a tiny flame. So you have to shut the tank valve, shut the grill off, wait a minute for it to reset and then start over.

[DRMousseau]

YES Rick,... a true manometer is a water filled loop graduated in water column inches and is very accurate. The gauge seen here actually IS a specialized low pressure vapor gauge. Because it is graduated in inches of water column instead of PSI, it is generically referred to as a manometer. Such a gauge is more durable, portable, and easier to use than a true manometer. But they are accepted for use by installation and service personnel with regular calibration for minor errors. The typical low pressure of propane systems is about 11 water column inches pressure,.... this equates to about .4psi!!!! The uniqueness of such gauges makes them plenty accurate to qualify for such a name designation. Older ones that were properly called an indicator, were indeed very limited in use. My manometer could probably use some calibration too,... but you can easily see that at such low pressure, it's not completely necessary for such accuracy in my typical use.


AND YES Brian,.... most of todays regulators will "LOCK_UP" if an uncontrolled release of vapor is lost from a broken line, fitting, or failed component/appliance. It will also lock-up if the supply valve is abruptly turned on. This feature protects the system and regulator from the high tank pressures that can exceed 250psi!!!! The regulator can be "reset", but usually requires the supply to be turned off, and the high pressure relieved from the main supply line by loosening the supply connection at the tank supply. Again, wear gloves to be safe here. Then, tighten the supply line and SLOWLY open the main supply valve.


The primary inlet side of the regulator reduces the high 250+psi to about 10-15psi I believe,... it is then further reduced in the secondary side to less than a fraction of jus one psi for use in the RV systems.


Knowing how this system works can help in troubleshooting the appliances like the furnace, water-heater, refrigerator,... that may not be operating properly. Jus because they have gas getting to them,.... doesn't mean it should work. That gas supply HAS to be at the designed pressure and volume for the intended appliance. THEN it can be determined if and how the appliance may be faulty.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

You are discussing an Excess Flow Valve
That and lots more little tidbits of nice to know info is contained in this document
http://leipper.org/manuals/rv/lpg.pdf

[DRMousseau]

WOW!!! Awesome super spectacular info and study!!!! THANKS Dave! I'm NOT gonna lose this,.... SAVED as a PDF!!! And well worth it too!!!!


I'd LUV a newer edition, as it would likely contain recent changes including newer ISO specifications and info that is stamped into the tank. But the DOT info contained here is CERTAIN to be informative to many with pre-2000 RV's.


And I suppose this actually clarifies some confusion I may have cause in an effort of simplicity.


The "excess flow" safety device is actually in the tank valve, and the "high pressure" lock-out safety device is a design of the regulator. One specific to flow, the other specific to pressure. BOTH require the same actions to "reset" and resume proper operation,.... that primarily being the action needed to shut-off of the supply valve, relieve pressure, and the need to slowly open it.


Older cylinder and tanks MAY still be equipped with old style POL valves!!! These DO NOT have the excess flow valve safety device. Most all 20# cylinders no longer have these and any that do, can no longer be refilled or exchanged. And if your permanent mount OEM still has an old POL valve,... it might be a good idea to replace it with a newer safety valve. How to tell if yours is "safe" Disconnect the supply line from the tank valve, then open the valve. If gas flows freely and unregulated,... you have a candidate for replacement!!! If no gas flows from the open valve,... it is equipped with a newer safer valve with an excess flow safety devise.


Dave's link has specifics and even procedures of adjustment, repairs and replacements if necessary, although much of this is best left to skilled and knowledgeable technicians.

[DRMousseau]

AAAAAACK!!!!
Less than 18hrs after installation, my new regulator has catastrophically FAILED!!!!! I am completely shocked and disappointedly surprised.


After several hours of close observation, various testing, and many reassuring follow-up checks and inspections,.... everything was found to be in satisfactory operating condition. Then it happened!!!


I "left home" for an hour to enjoy dinner with family. When I returned,... the strong odor of propane in the air had again greeted me unexpectedly. This isn't unusual but always alarming. There's often a lot of well and production activity that, depending on wind currents, can bring an alarming odor from miles away, and I'm ALWAYS frantic in making an immediate determination of concern. With a new related installation, my level of concern was HUGE!! Sure enough,... the source was pinpointed to my new regulator!!!


Slightly frosted, cold vapor could be seen around it, but no sign or sound of leaking propane in proportion of the odor present. I immediately shut off the main supply valve at the tank several feet away, and disconnected AC supply in the nearby garage to which I am shore-lined. I opened the RV door, and was relieved to hear no alarms (which could have been heard outside), and thankfully found no presense of propane inside. The furnace blower was running and blowing cold air,... it had apparently been down for sometime, as interior temps were noticeably cool in the RV. Still, I shutdown DC supplies and turned EVERYTHING off in precaution.


The manometer indicator was pegged at max., and I set about outside with flashlight and soapy water. By this time, the vapor had dispersed significantly from my well ventilated "bubble" outside, and I felt a bit more relieved. AND, finally I determined and found the vapors were coming from the regulators vents. I broke the line loose from the main valve of the tank outside "my bubble", and relieved all remaining pressure in the RV system. Manometer was still pegged. Briefly turning on a stove burner confirmed that there was still pressure on the secondary side of the regulator. I gained access to my capped and unused refrigerator supply valve outside the RV and relieved all secondary pressure, and manometer fell to zero,... closed valve and replaced cap.


Let's start from step one Hm?
I retightened main supply line at tank, and slowly opened main tank valve. The faint hiss of supply pressure could be heard increasing, and stopped as it should, so far, so good. I quickly checked the regulator,... seemed ok as well. No leaks or escaping vapors. The frost was gone from the warm soapy water and the regulator was about ambient temp of surroundings. I stepped into the RV, and found the manometer resting on zero!!! No supply from the stove burners either.


Plugged or frozen supply or feed lines??? Locked up or plugged regulator???


With assumed pressure on the inlet side, I loosened and removed the outlet line of the regulator,.... nothing! I again removed the cap from the unused refrigerator valve opened it and blew into the line,... quite freely too. AND the odor of propane returned as it escaped at the loosened regulator outlet end of the line. My coach lines are free, clear, and not obstructed or frozen.


I then carefully loosened the inlet side of the regulator, and was greeted immediately with escaping vapor. Supply line clear too,... and quickly retightened the fitting. I again shut off main tank supply, and relieve supply pressure from the line and regulator inlet. I sharply rapped the regulator a few times with no pressure and tried again,.... still nothing at the outlet side. Rapped a few more time WITH pressure,... and STILL nothing.


With all vapors safely gone now, I restored power,.... it's dark and getting colder. Fortunately I have a nice "electric fireplace" as a backup. ALWAYS nice to have backups.   I retrieved my old regulator and set about to thoroughly cleaning the goo out with hopes of returning it to service,... after all, it DID previously work, and somewhat better than the new replacement has. And I really need adequate heat NOW!!!! It's freezing and near blizzard outside.


So now 30yr old regulator has been restored to complete satisfactory service, and I'm returning one with instructions that it should replaced in 10yrs and failed much MUCH sooner. Manufacturing defect??? Careless inspections??? Improper adjustments??? Jus plain poor quality??? Hard to say,.... if the supplier or manufacture refuses the return, I'll dissemble it and find out jus exactly WHY?!?! Gotta satisfy my needs to know!!!! AND if replaced by supplier, I'll probably need a backup to my replacement, and my original will serve as a reliable backup to my backup!!!! D:oH!
Always nice to have backups! lol!

[brians1969]

Something very strange seems to be going on.  Why the freezing...why is the old one now working....why is it a brand new regulator suddenly fails within a day. If it were me, I would be trying to run it directly from a 20# tank for a bit....not sure I could give you a good reason to do so other than to stir the pot a little.

[Rickf1985]

Sounds to me like you got a load of moisture in your last delivery of propane. You may not be the only one in the area having problems.

[M & J]

X2 Rick.

[Rickf1985]

I thought you were working off of a large external tank and not the RV tank? If it is moisture that could be a problem. At least in an external tank they could take yours and bring you a new one. But with that you would be using a regulator attached to the tank.

Went back through some old posts and I see you are getting your on board tank filled as needed. You may want to talk to your supplier if this problem cropped up right after a fill up.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

I immediately shut off the main supply valve at the tank several feet away

Rick,
He is using a separate external 100gal tank.
Regulator at top
Leaking hose (he replaced it) in the middle goes to the 100gal tank.
Main RV tank at bottom (you can see the valve handle for it)
Blue cap allows you to hook up the hose to a Bar-B-Que grill.

So regulator is used for both tanks.
He shuts off valve to RV tank when using 100gal tank and vice-versa.

Note: Do not be mislead by the orientation of this photograph.  His piping is horizontal with the vent for the regulator facing down



Note: Do not be mislead by the orientation of the photograph above.  His piping is horizontal with the vent for the regulator facing down.

Secondary Regulator vent


This photo shows correct orientation of the secondary vent for a ACME style horizontal propane tank


This photo shows incorrect orientation of the secondary vent for a ACME style horizontal propane tank

[DRMousseau]

Dave has it EXACTLY!!!! Except my external tank is 100GAL,... not 100lbs.

Brian - Strange indeed. The low temps and freezing is caused by a rapid change in pressure from a compressed liquid to a free vapor at atmospheric pressure,... not unusual for a regulator or supply tank to be "somewhat" cold, but excessive cold can lead to frost accumulations, inside and out of both tank and regulator depending on prevailing humidity and moisture. In use, its often easy to determine your tank levels of liquid as the vapor evaporates, by the exterior coldness or even icy frost on the tank, but the regulator, especially a 2-stage regulator minimizes this effect by control of the evaporation pressure rate.


To directly attach a tank, either my "20# backups", onboard tank, or large external supply still requires a functional regulator to prevent damage to appliances and supply systems not designed for the high pressure of bulk sources.


Rick - I wonder of excess moisture from suppliers as well. Like gasoline, propane also sees additives and seasonal adjustments. Such problems are far more rare than in past days, but NOT without a possibility for other reasons. My onboard 100# tank is empty for the season. I AM using a large 120gal/500# (100gal @ 80% fill) external supply located OUTSIDE my "bubble". It has an old style POL valve and IS NOT equipped with OPD safety valve or any kind of regulator,.... purely a large household supply tank. Open the valve, and empty the tank! Such valve can no longer be used on small portable tanks of 4-40#, I believe. Larger tanks (100# for example) are not considered portable and require specific transportation requirements etc. (must be secured and upright). While my system DOES have excess flow protection, it lacks the safer high-pressure lockout of modern systems, and is dependent on newer regulators equipped with such. Most household supplies depend on a large heavy duty regulator that's usually jus outside your home and only rarely on the supply "pig".


My initial thought was that the new regulator was "locked up",... but a full release of all primary and secondary pressures failed to reset it as normally would. I also question whether a foreign particle may have entered the primary and solidly jammed the inlet orifice or mechanism causing a complete blockage likely on the inlet, as the low-pressure diaphragm and mechanism is free and functional... and the frozen characteristics would "seem' to rule this out. I truly suspect an internal failure due to lack of manufacturing quality ,.... tolerance specs. (adjustment and fit), assembly quality (stray particle INSIDE), design and/or material quality (weak pivots, soft, malleable seats, springs etc.), something that has caused a complete blockage of either the inlet, or the passage between the first and second stages.  Hm? I strongly suspect the latter issue due to prevailing symptoms.


I guess you get what you pay for,... and while a typical, reasonable and expected price was paid, todays quality and craftsmanship of production is far from what was common 30yrs ago. It's the very same reason I no longer can rely on my longtime, favorite, and once dependable sparkplug brand.  N:(

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Does your regulator have a 1st stage vent also that may be freezing over?


Need a 110VAC light in the tank area to keep temps up?

[DRMousseau]

Yes, first stage is vented by a tiny small relief like you show above. And it is clear. I carefully poked a tiny stiff wire drill bit, hoping to lightly tap the mechanism and diaphragm free if possible. This tiny vent only serves to equalize the internal chamber pressure with ambient air pressure relevant to heat, elevation and atmospheric changes. If plugged or sealed, the primary side will usually still function as the high pressure below easily overcomes most pressure in this chamber area. But easy to understand the prolonged effects of heat and such if this area was sealed. The tiny vent keeps out most particles and even water. Although not immune to rapid humidity changes, it's tiny size DOES inhibit the rapid exchange of such.


The low pressure side of course, requires a much larger vent, protected by a mesh or grate, since the regulated pressure of less than 11in of water column is easily affected by any opposing force of even a few inches of mercury pressure, in which the atmosphere and weather is measured. FYI,... jus checked- 11in of water column = .8in of mercury!!!


I'm very reluctant to have any possible ignition sources in such areas. This includes lights, AC or DC, and any electrical exposures. And propane pressure is very susceptible to heat. I really like getting refilled on a frosty cold sub-zero day, as I usually get a bit more when measured in volume (delivered gal) instead of weight (scaled lbs). Of course a warming day on newly filled and full tank usually results in a slight loss thru the excessive pressure relief safety valve if not used a bit right away. This is majorly why your tank area is well ventilated and not solidly enclosed and protected. And also why stored "exchange" tanks are grossly under filled!!! BTW,... DO NOT leave your recently bulk filled 20# tank in a closed vehicle or compartment!!!


Even at the current 10degrees out tonight, the regulator and system is working fine and as it should. Regulator isn't perceptively colder than the extremes of the ambient air and surroundings. Temps have to be very VERY cold before propane fails to evaporate into a vapor form and causes trouble and damage as a liquid in the system.


AND WHERE did you get that regulator, Dave??? What brand and model?? Where was it made??? It appears to be of slightly better construction quality than what's commonly and typically available as in the recent one I obtained.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Just a picture off the internet I found to clearly indicate the subject at hand.