73 D18 roof replacement

[CapnDirk]

They make a duck bill type of thing to put on a caulk tube used for putting cove base glue down.  About three inches wide and the nose has holes about every 3/16 across the nose. That would probably be perfect.


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roberts-Snozzle-Cove-Base-Adhesive-Cartridge-Spreader-and-Applicator-10-981-25/100080708

[TerryH]

Problem with the nozzle would be cleaning assuming you are using it tomorrow. If you treat it as a throw away, fine. Also, PL is far more viscous than cove base adhesive. You could have trouble with the PL pushing the add on nozzle off the tube.

A notched tile trowel worked well for me on similar work on my boat when using PL Premium. Another  vote for PL.

One problem with PL is it tends to 'run on' after you release the plunger. Be prepared to spend a minute or two dabbing the run on onto the gluing surface. Regardless it is a good idea to have a piece of cardboard or something to lay the gun on.

[DRMousseau]

OMG!!!! GORRILLA GLUE!!!! PHREAKIN' PERFECT!!!!!


Sorry,... jus a bit excited here!


High solids, low VOC, contact adhesive has usually been the standard,... look for non-flammable stuff. Looks like PL Premium has a big following here,... I believe they also have special foam insulation adhesive too. These jus seem more of an "extruded construction adhesive" to me, rather than a surface laminating adhesive. Epoxy is an option, but what a mess. Thinkin' your lookin' for a surface contact adhesive to fully re-laminate the foam to inner and outer substrates of aluminum and wood.


I have a couple small "laminating" projects myself. Both doors need to be fully disassembled, rebuilt and re-laminated. These being small in surface and non-critical, I had considered jus using a quality rubberized elastomeric coating as an adhesive, sealant, waterproofing, and wood preservative!


BUT,.... I might actually consider Gorilla Glue!!! A moisture cured, expanding, polyurethane, waterproof adhesive, this would to me,... seem perfect!!!! So,... I jus checked it out a bit more, and found that among the "teardrop" builders, this is a favorite for laminating foam to wood, and aluminum skins. Lightweight, permanent waterproof bond, strong and all that. And they noted that jus a little goes a long way,... about a half ounce per square foot or more. "REALLY thin", and with minimal moisture for less foamy stronger bond. Sooooooo,... this might be what I'll be using. Gotta try something new once in a while,... otherwise I might be missin' out on something pretty dang good!

[TerryH]

Heard a lot of good reports about their products. I wonder how it would work for vertical and overhead applications?
If I recall correctly Rick1985 had occasion to contact them for information and was very impressed. My memory, however, is not terribly reliable.

[Piraterik]

any ideas on what kinda glue to use to glue the plywood back into the styrofoam ? my dad suggested contact cement but i think it might dissolve the foam

I would find a laminate flooring supply. (Not Lowes, or HD) and go to there counter sales and talk with them.   They should have a water cleanup low VOC adhesive that would glue the new paneling down to ANYTHING.  Using trowel application with easy clean up. That should be available in 1 or 5 gallon pails.  I had some for laying a reclaimed heartwood Pine flooring to Cement. Worked great. 

[stanDman111]

that sounds like the ticket mate

[demon]

Finished getting the old wood off that area and started to make a template... need some clamps to hold the cardboard up there so I can finish the template so it will have to wait till tomorrow. here's my thoughts on the glue and I realise im probably overthinking it but that's just how I do things! If I use anything that needs troweled on like that loctite construction adhesive or wood flooring glue, it will be thicker and ill never be able to get the new wood flushed right up against the foam.I've done tile before and there is a space between the floor and the tile. There can not be any space at all between the foam and the new wood . there is no way i can clamp it good enough without tipping the whole thing on its side and spreading even weigh over that whole area and even then I dont think it would be tight to the foam.  I am picturing some glue like elmer's wood glue that I can spread all over the foam and the new wood completely and then put them together. I know there are a lot of different Gorilla glues. which one are you thinking? Another thing I was thinking was using fiberglass resin...it would help make the wood water proof too! I rebuilt a boat a while back from the stringers out and i did it with wood like what was there and fiberglass so I kinda know what im doing with that stuff. I know it sticks but im not sure without the fiberglass mat. any thoughts?

[Rickf1985]

I had talked to the people that make Gorilla glue and they do NOT have a glue that is compatible with the foam. They told me at the time what to use but I do not remember now, It was another companies product and that was what really impressed me about Gorilla. They had the good faith to advise against using their product which they knew would not work and even recommended a competitors product that would.I don't know of a resin that would not melt the foam. The foam is pretty fragile stuff.

[stanDman111]

I used a acrylic brush on type of glue = didn't burn the foam

[DRMousseau]

Nothing wrong with overthinking the gluing of plastics and foams! There's A LOT to consider and think about here,... A LOT!!!!  It's the solvents of ketones, acetones, MEK, toluene, xylene, and other that will dissolve most foam plastics.


DO NOT use polyester fiberglass resin! Potent enough to seriously melt and damage any foam and plastics. Epoxy fiberglass resin would be much better, as it lacks many of the damaging solvents of polyesters, and it probably the #1 choice because of it's qualities,.... waterproof, compatibility with substrates of metal and wood, strong, permanent, etc., it's jus a bit messy to work with, and that can be important to most DIY. If you have experience in polyester resin,... you'll find little difference in applying epoxy. It's also #1 in the marine industry of laminates AND enclosed flotation foams!


Elmer's wood glue (white glue) is certainly a usable choice,... except it's not waterproof, and while great on the wood substrate, not so much with the aluminum.


Spray on contact adhesives? Sure,... check a spot first. Some of this stuff is super high in solvents and you'll see it dissolve your foam away. But if it doesn't,.... then it's a choice if it meet other criteria of permanence, waterproof, strength, wood, metal, etc.


Urethane glues (Gorilla glue, etc.), The original "brown" formulation says right on the bottle, "not for use on polyethylene or polypropylene". I think it would be great for urethane foams and probably the rigid styrene foams. Again,.. test a small spot. But it is waterproof, strong, good for wood and aluminum too. I've actually considered urethane foam in the spray cans,... spray it on, spread and let it foam out as much as possible and apply! With hopes that it's doesn't foam or swell any more.


Acrylic/latex adhesives, waterproof and probably good too, if there are no "melting solvents". Strength? Permanence? Application? Metal? Wood? You decide.


And then there's the "construction" adhesives,... and a bunch too. Mostly a problem with spreading them thin enough for that full contact your looking for.


Any plastic including foam plastic can be a pain. And with foams, a HUGE variations here, from soft or rigid urethane foams to common styrene foams of many formulations with vinyl, urethane, neoprene, etc., AND open/closed cell types. But we're "assuming" a strongly styrene based foam given the era of production.


Overthinking??? HECK NO! IMO,.... epoxy costs a lot more than your familiar polyester resins, but it might be your best choice given your experience and all the desirable benefits you seek, will be found of epoxy.

[demon]

Man this is great! I knew enough to check cause some stuff can melt the foam and other stuff but youve explained it very well! Thank you! I emeailed Gorrilla glue yesterday and they replied with some construction adhesive even though i specified that the wood could not have any space between it and the foam so i sent in another message . I will definitely check out the epoxy resin. Anything particular with that or is there just one type? It sounds perfect for the job and im not really worried about a mess really any way...the whole inside is getting redone anyway.

[DRMousseau]

Epoxy resins "works" much like polyester resins,.... prep and fit, mix 2-part resin/hardener, apply within window of workability. But the similarity pretty much ends there. Epoxy is available in different formulations for various purposes, and polyester is more basic and simplified.


While hardener is often adjusted in polyester for working time, epoxy requires choosing the right hardener and maintain proper proportions for the desired working time.


I've used various epoxy's for a lot of uses INCLUDING quieting down those noisy transformers in old chargers and converters. While you might not choose the West 105 System, their site is loaded with helpful information (http://www.westsystem.com/ss/epoxy-resins-and-hardeners). Explore a bit, there's lots here that will apply to other epoxy's.


If I were to use epoxy in such a manner,... I'd probably choose West Systems 105 resin and 205 hardener for it's low temp workability. Unless I was workin' in the bright sunshine on a hot summer day, then I "might" use the 206 hardener or work faster!


This is why most DYI avoid epoxy,... it's messy and complicated. But it sure works good for tough jobs! Because the epoxy DOES seal wood effectively and is VERY waterproof, I jus maybe might think about it for my door rebuilds,.... but a urethane adhesive would be easier, still messy, but less costly and just easier. Thinkin' that's mostly why the "tear drop" trailer DYI's use Gorilla Glue over epoxy.

[demon]

I was reading that the Gorrila glue expand 3 times ?? If they are using it on tear drops , does it expand and push the materials apart? I tried looking for any type of camper lamination stuff and could find anything where they said exactly what they were using. That part just had me worried cause I have to clamp the wood up there. I figure ill put a piece of wood on the outside of the wall as well and I can put a lot of clamps on around the widow openings and all across the top but it still will have spaces between the clamps that I'm afraid might bulge if the glue expands as it dries.. Couldn't find an answer to that and was hoping my email to Gorrila glue would come up with and answer but not yet

[LJ-TJ]

Well I can vouch for West Systems as that's the product I use when I built my airplane made out of plywood and polyurethane foam.

[Rickf1985]

I have always found that when in doubt call the manufacturer and they will tell you the right information regardless of what you hear on the internet. Because we all know, "if it is on the internet  it has to be true" :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao

[DRMousseau]

I was reading that the Gorrila glue expand 3 times ?? If they are using it on tear drops , does it expand and push the materials apart? I tried looking for any type of camper lamination stuff and could find anything where they said exactly what they were using. That part just had me worried cause I have to clamp the wood up there. I figure ill put a piece of wood on the outside of the wall as well and I can put a lot of clamps on around the widow openings and all across the top but it still will have spaces between the clamps that I'm afraid might bulge if the glue expands as it dries.. Couldn't find an answer to that and was hoping my email to Gorrila glue would come up with and answer but not yet

Gorilla glues reaction is set by moisture and/or humidity,... it may set up in the bottle once opened, depending on that humidity. I'm not certain of the exact chemical reaction here, nor what causes the foaming action or what gasses the foam is of. I would guess it was a hydrogen sorta thing being a hydrocarbon based adhesive and the high level of hydrogen in water relative to air. but that's jus a guess. Could also be CO or CO2, given the chemical compositions here. But it does foam, and "UP TO" 3-4times in volume. A VERY thin application is all that's needed, 3-4 times that would be very little. The pressure from such action is more of "squeeze" out, but large surface areas may be a bit different. The stuff will cure in the bottle or exposed to humidity alone, with little foaming action, so that moisture level is also a factor in the foaming action. Wetting a surface with dampness rather than wetness is all that's really needed, especially in high humidity. It does have a rather long "set" time that will require clamping or some extended contact pressure like anything else. I was surprised to find some who actually mixed a bit of a water/alcohol into the glue to initiate the action and "thin" it further for application. I believe this was to "work out" the excess foaming bubbles while applying, and to uniformly initiate the "set".


For a small project, panel laminate, such as my doors, this may be ideal as I'm laminating on a bench, and much different than laminating in place.

Well I can vouch for West Systems as that's the product I use when I built my airplane made out of plywood and polyurethane foam.

Tough to beat epoxy! And I too like West Systems products for this kinda use. For a large "in place" laminate job, it would be my preference, still need uniform clamping contact, but set time is shorter as is working time, when compared to urethanes.

I have always found that when in doubt call the manufacturer and they will tell you the right information regardless of what you hear on the internet. Because we all know, "if it is on the internet  it has to be true" :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao

And there's ALWAYS the "manufactures recommendations",.... tried and true! Follow their specifics exactly, and you won't go wrong. But DYI's tend to push that a bit,... and I'm still considering a coating of Ames Maximum-Stretch as a laminating adhesive and waterproof sealant for my doors! Good adhesion, waterproof, and it stretches to resist "delamination" from uneven expansion of substrates by excessive heat, cold, and the jarring vibrations of grandchildren slamming the door closed!  D:oH! But of course, this ISN'T what the manufacture intend it for.


And he thought he was overthinking this matter!    Not at all!!!

[demon]

Thanks again for everybody's help! I was thinking today that I have regular fiberglass resin at the shop and i have plenty of foam from the roof that I cut off so why not try a piece. Since what ever type of foam this is , is not really known for sure I figured lets try. At least next tim someone is thinking of this they can see the results first. The foam didnt melt. I coated the foam then coated the wood and clamped them. I also coated the rest of the foam just to be able to see what is happening with the foam. Ill try and rip the wood off tomorrow and see how that goes but it looks good so far. what are our thoughts?

[DRMousseau]

Well there's no better way to find out then a small scale test like this..
I would have expected more "melt" of the foam from the resin volatiles,.... and tomorrow you should know jus how well this will work out. Polyester, like epoxy, sets off by heat of the catalyst too, but the temp should be low enough to have little effect on the foam. I'm sure you've experienced those "hot" mixes. lol.


Tryin to recall how floatation foam is molded into fiberglass layup of watercraft,.... but I can only see compartments into which foam was later installed.

[demon]

tried to pull the plywood off today and its stuck! extremely well! had to use a chisel in between the wood and foam to get a chunk broke off but even then it ripped the foam up with it so I think this is the ticket!

[Rickf1985]

What brand and type resin did you use?

[stanDman111]

I'm curious too?

[demon]

just regular polyester resin from the boat store. 

[DRMousseau]

Well, looks suitable. What was the working time of the resin mix?


And the foam,... hard to tell, but does it have some surface damage? That familiar loose flaky aged surface that brushes loose from the more solid base below??? Appears to "break" at the surface depth of such damage, with that loose surface firm in the resin. Jus wondering actually. I would expect a more "chunky" and uneven break from the foam, actually leaving pieces of foam behind rather than jus surface. So I was wondering if the surface "was" aged and damaged from UV or Ozone, or if maybe the resin alters the foam surface and "breaks" it from the base. Certainly looks water resistant,.... throw some boiling water on the remainder and break another chunk off. See if ANY can work into the "breakline" and cause a weakness.


So far, ya, it does look good. Better than squiggly construction adhesive. What do you think??? Is it too "brittle" in your opinion??? Will it "break" or separate under vibration of say the AC or rock-n-roll or moisture or like whatever???

[demon]

This was a piece of foam from the roof and I really didn't even blow the dust off after I peeled the wood off of the foam and then sanded it. I'm am pretty confident that it will work great. I used to much harder in it cause I didn't have a measuring cup and I just squirted in a bunch! The cup it was in got hot!!! Ill def measure it up when I put the wood in the wall. The rest of that piece of wood that I glued on is stuck insanely good. I can't imagine anything working better. The foam is gonna break at some point of pulling on it no matter what.

[DRMousseau]

AWESOMENESS!!!!


Will probably be fine!