Need some recommendations about the engine

bnlfan · March 01, 2018, 09:05 PM

I have someone who owes me a bit of money and does not currently have the means to pay me. So, I have negotiated a way to barter for it.

He is a wonderful mechanic. So, I am going to have him take my rv home and work on it. The things I am going to have done are change the hydroboost, water pump, exhaust manifold, tune up and change out the vacuum hoses, and possibly do the brakes.

Is there anything else you think I should have done? I don't know how long it has been since any real work has been done on the rv as I purchased it used about 5 years ago.

I quantified that I wanted the RV worked on to the point that it would be safe to drive long distances without worry. That I want the motor running like it was brand new. So, that surely covers a large area.

Elandan2 · March 02, 2018, 07:48 AM

Fan clutch, new belts, rocker cover gaskets, filters.

tomlee47 · March 02, 2018, 08:00 AM

I have the same motorhome but in an 85 and have owned it 20 years. You don't mention what you've done the last 5 yr or the current miles. Also of interest would be where generally the motorhome has been and where you currently live. I would definitely do the brake job first since that exercise provides so much info, axles-shoes/pads-lines-seals-brgs-tires-emergency-etc without spending money on parts until you know the facts.

wae · March 02, 2018, 08:29 AM

Just a couple things you might consider:
- Flush the brake fluid
- Cooling system flush
- Replace cooling system hoses
- Repack wheel bearings? (I know on later P30 chassis that was an every 12k mile service item)
- Lube chassis & check for failing bushings, leaking airbags, loose ball joints
- Maybe trans and rear end fluid change? I'm not sure what the recommendation/intervals are for those on that chassis, but worth a look.

LJ-TJ · March 02, 2018, 08:41 AM

And the first time out she'll brake down. That's the nature of the beast. She ain't a 2018 rig. I believe you will see many here have very carefully and methodically prepped their rigs and some were on the trip a brand new OME failed. Just make sure you carry a few extra parts and more importantly you know were every NAPA store is. Those folks (older ones) are irreplaceable. Most importantly enjoy yourself. The adventure is about to begin.

Rickf1985 · March 02, 2018, 12:04 PM

How many miles are on it? A timing chain and gears comes to mind since the original timing gear is a plastic gear. That is a VERY involved job on a motor home since everything in the front of the motor home from the grill back to the timing chain has to come out. Also are your exhaust manifolds leaking as most are?

bnlfan · March 02, 2018, 02:26 PM

I have only replaced the alternator and the belts. It has about 65,000 miles. The driver side exhaust manifold is leaking.

I will go on tonight and look up part number and make a list of work. Basically I am going to type up a contract for exactly I want done . His "woman" owes me over 3 grand and this is going to be a better for repayment.

So keep it coming folks. Thanks. Btw the transmission is great and it actually drivers pretty well .

Rickf1985 · March 02, 2018, 04:28 PM

Well keep this in mind, changing plugs and wires and stuff like that is easy. timing chain, manifolds, that kind of stuff is super labor intensive. Pick what jobs you really don't want to do and pass them on. While the exhaust manifolds may look fairly easy I guarantee you will break at least two bolts on each one that will have to be removed from the heads. And the timing cover............ Once you tunnel through the entire front of the RV to get there you will need to take off ALL of the brackets on the front of the engine since they all are bolted over the timing cover. THEN................. You have to put it all back together again! I would STRONGLY suggest a new water pump at the same time since it has to come off and they don't seem to weather time too well. Mine only had 49,000 on it but the pump went south. Same entire procedure to replace the pump. 3 grand!? I don't want to know.

W% :)rotflmao

bnlfan · March 03, 2018, 12:38 PM

The amount owed is a few dollars over $3,000.00
Here is what I gave him as what I want done. Tell me if you think this is fair.
I am paying for the parts partly because I want to get GOOD QUALITY and I think the labor is close to what they owe me.

1.   Repair exhaust leak on drivers side (I think the manifold needs replaced)
2.   Replace hydro-boost (power steering, power brake pump)
3.   Remove 2 unused air pumps on engine (not used)
4.   Replace water pump
5.   Replace clutch on fan as well
6.   Replace vacuum lines
7.   Basic tune-up, oil change on motor
8.   Brakes
9.   Wheel bearings (repack at least) if needed
10.   Flush cooling system
11.   Check bushings on front suspension and replace if needed

M & J · March 03, 2018, 04:13 PM

I'll remind you what Rick said. That deep in replace the timing set.

bnlfan · March 03, 2018, 04:53 PM

I will have to see if I can squeeze that in. I don't know if that is something that will push the cost effectiveness of the deal over the side. Plus, I don't want to take advantage of the situation.

Rickf1985 · March 03, 2018, 04:59 PM

If you are replacing the water pump then all that is left to access the timing chain are the bolts holding the timing cover! It would be a real shame to put all of that back together and a year down the road have to take it all apart again. You are only adding an hour to the job.

TerryH · March 03, 2018, 05:36 PM

Quote from: M & J on March 03, 2018, 04:13 PM
I'll remind you what Rick said. That deep in replace the timing set.

Froggy1936 · March 03, 2018, 06:20 PM

He , i?? Only adding an hour ? . Did you forget the removal of the dampner, & the cleaning and scrapeing of gaskets ? replaceing the frt seal ? strightening of the cover at the bolt holes ? And reccomending a double row timing chain ?

Just pulling your leg Frank

bnlfan · March 03, 2018, 07:08 PM

Thank you guys. I honestly did not know that, so it will go on the list as well. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all this advice.

Let me ask this, for the work I have listed and the timing chain, what do I need to look up these parts? I try giving them the 1986 Chevrolet P30 with a 454 but they tell me "I can't find. . . " Someone once posted, if it isn't in the computer, they don't think it is made anymore.

Well, add to that, my own ignorance, and it will never be found. lol.

DaveVA78Chieftain · March 03, 2018, 08:59 PM

Start out by using either NAPA or Rockauto

Also, if you have not already Go to the members area and download the 1986 P30 service and wiring manuals, the 1987 unit repair manual, and 79-94 Service and Maintenance manual.

Rickf1985 · March 03, 2018, 09:15 PM

And you don't need a double roller timing chain for that application. A standard Cloyes replacement set is just fine and will far outlast the RV. It is not the chain that goes, it is the plastic cam gear but you have to replace the whole set. IF he is a good mechanic then he should have the tools to remove and install the balancer. If not you can usually borrow them for a refundable rental fee from most bigger parts stores. Same with the steering pulley puller/installer.

I hate to think of the marital discord that will be going on in that household after this job!!!

beaverman · March 04, 2018, 05:11 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on March 03, 2018, 04:59 PM
If you are replacing the water pump then all that is left to access the timing chain are the bolts holding the timing cover! It would be a real shame to put all of that back together and a year down the road have to take it all apart again. You are only adding an hour to the job.

do the tune up and other easy to get to stuff yourself, if that water pump is coming off it's only 14 bolts to pull the timing cover, if you have to do it later your going to be pissed that you did not have it done now! and... it's been my experience that the timing chain will take a dump when your in the middle of BFE!

circleD · March 04, 2018, 08:32 PM

I would definitely do what you could even the AIR pump removal and vac hoses. Just because if things mess up on the road you're familiar with the external stuff. Unlike some of these gear heads, I can't disassemble motors on the side of the road and fix them. But I can fix common minor issues.

tmsnyder · March 06, 2018, 08:37 AM

It's not just 14 bolts, unless I missed the vibration damper coming off. He'd have to pull that. Not a huge deal, because after 30 years that IS a part I would change out for a Fluidamper part or at least a new GM part. AND the front main seal.

But once you are in past the water pump, the worst is behind you. Then it's fun work. Do the timing set, front seal, and damper. I just changed the timing set on my everyday driver, 6.5L diesel, and that's a double roller set. Made by Cloyes, on closeout from RockAuto: $15

It had 320,000 miles on it, it was due. I don't know that your's is due on the 454, but if you could get a good quality set on there for a $20 part, I'd do it.

The question then is, what about the cam and lifters? You said you want it running like new, and chevy cams are prone to wear. Also, cam technology has come so far since 1984, and that's a pos cam in there, made for the AIR pump system with retarded timing. He would have to remove the valve covers, back off the rocker nuts, pull the push rods, remove the distributor and intake manifold, pull out the lifters, then slide the camshaft out and the new one in, then reverse the above. That would really make the engine run better than new.

From what I've read the main way these things die in general is from overheating. So in addition to the water pump, thermostat, I'd make sure to put all new belts and hoses on there, and a new radiator. The aluminum ones are great, and inexpensive, around 200-300 for the part. The piece of mind and performance is worth it. The cooling system is for the tranny too, so it must work or else you will fry both the engine and the tranny.

I'd also do a tranny filter, fluid dump and fill.

Then the brakes, change out the pads (shoes? not sure on a 1984), have him flush new fluid through the lines.

Grease everything that has a zerk fitting.

Also, you yanked the AIR pumps, so you don't need to be running the smog timing under the distributor. You could have him recurve that for $40 in parts, or you could do it. A mechanical advance set, and a new vacuum can. Give it the timing it will run best at, not smog timing.

Then the ignition; new cap, rotor, wires, plugs.

If he owes you $3k, and he's willing to work it off then that's not at regular shop rates, that's at like 1/2 rate b/c you're doing him a favor. You should be able to have him happily do $6k of work for you.

Rickf1985 · March 06, 2018, 11:36 AM

i SERIOUSLY doubt he feels he should work at half rate just because he is paying off a debt! I know I sure as hell wouldn't. Would you? I may not charge shop rate because there is no overhead unless he is doing this in his shop, and if he is then shop rate it is. Fair is fair and I doubt Bnlfan is looking to screw the guy over just because his wife owes money.

tmsnyder · March 07, 2018, 08:30 AM

That reminds me of the time a guy owed me money and offered me a McDonalds gift card . "But it's the same value as I owe you" No, no thanks. If it were 2x the amount I might consider it, but I don't even eat at that place! (except breakfast, I do love their pancakes)

Cash is king, the RV owner could do anything he wants to with it including hiring another mechanic that he might prefer, or pocketing the cash and doing the work himself. If the guy wants to pay in services, then the full retail value of the service should be considerably more than amount owed. That's just the nature of bartering, it should be a good deal for both parties!

Think about it this way, if the RV owner were to refuse the work and demand the cash, the mechanic would then have to work on someone else's car to pay the RV owner after subtracting off his costs, he couldn't give him the whole bill because there are overhead costs, he needs a base pay. Assuming 50% costs, in that scenario the mechanic will have to work 2x as many hours to cover his overhead and then pay the full amount owed to the RV owner. Which means he will be doing about 2x the retail value of the amount owed. He might as well just do that 2x amount of work on the RV itself and keep the cash off the books completely.

Since the RV owner is doing the mechanic a FAVOR by accepting his labor as payment, the mechanic should not be expecting to make a profit off his work, just cover his costs.

Another way to figure this, what is the guys take home hourly pay after taxes? Is his weekly paycheck $1200 for 40 hours of work? That's $30 per hour cash in his pocket. He owes $3000, then that's 100 hours of work. $3000 cash not coming out of his pocket is the same that he gets paid for 100 hours of work. As long as the two can agree on an amount of work to be done, if it's less than 100 hours then it's good deal for the guy.

What you are saying is that the mechanic should be making PROFIT off the guy who is owed the money. That doesn't make sense, unless you are coming at it from the side of the mechanic, then it sounds like a great deal for him but not for the RV owner!

Rickf1985 · March 07, 2018, 12:55 PM

Well, this is not worth getting into a pissing match over, I am sure Bnlfan has worked out a rate that suits both of them. Keep in ind that if this guy is a good mechanic that Bnlfan may want to use him in the future for doing repairs to his equipment. Do you really think the guy would be interested in helping if he got hung out to dry on this job? A good mechanic is going to be bringing home a good deal more than that so the 100 hours will be substantially less. I believe in keeping good relationships over trying to shaft people out of the maximum return. Karma works either way, or both ways I should say.

tmsnyder · March 09, 2018, 09:09 AM

Yes, it has to be something that works for both of them, that's for sure.

Schwarzkopf9 · March 12, 2018, 07:31 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on March 07, 2018, 12:55 PM
Well, this is not worth getting into a pissing match over, I am sure Bnlfan has worked out a rate that suits both of them. Keep in ind that if this guy is a good mechanic that Bnlfan may want to use him in the future for doing repairs to his equipment. Do you really think the guy would be interested in helping if he got hung out to dry on this job? A good mechanic is going to be bringing home a good deal more than that so the 100 hours will be substantially less. I believe in keeping good relationships over trying to shaft people out of the maximum return. Karma works either way, or both ways I should say.

good advice!