Engine/Transmission issues?

hest_c · August 28, 2018, 11:45 PM

Hi all, new member here and new to the RV world overall too! We just purchase a 1970 Winnebago D24 that has a 318 and I suppose the 727? Just got it home tonight and haven't really had a chance to route around underneath much yet.

I did notice on the drive home that she was a major dog in 1st gear and even in lower 2nd as well, is this common? She did sit for a while only being started up occasionally while the PO was trying to sell her but I thought the 318 would be stronger than that! We live in CO so lots of hills and mountains so wondering if I should be starting the research on an engine swap or if there is something I can look at/do to make the drive better? Would love to hear your thoughts. Can't wait to learn so much from all of you out there!

LJ-TJ · August 29, 2018, 08:12 AM

Well first things first. Welcome aboard. Having had two 318's there not the most powerful so my guess is it's a dog. It's fine it just doesn't have the power you would expect. CO hills will be brutal on a little 318. If it's power you want then I would go with a straight bolt in 440. Depending on what you pick you should get one for between $200.00 to $1,000.00. Should take a day to pull it and a day to put the 440 in.

hest_c · August 29, 2018, 11:31 AM

@LJ-TJ Thanks so much for the input! I'll be checking the local CL for some 440's now too! We only have one more camping trip on the books this year so I can manage with the 318 for now but down the road I'll definitely be wanting the additional power. Any suggestions on what to look for? I've heard there are different variants of the 440, just want to make sure I'm looking for the proper one before I lay down that cash.

turbinebronze · August 29, 2018, 02:12 PM

I would suggest finding a motorhome that has the 440/413-727 combo and pick that up. It will need a refresh, but it would bolt in (for the most part...the devil is in the details!)
The 440 will not bolt up to the 318 trans. It is a different bell housing.
And check the trans. I think yours has the e-brake mounted to the tailstock of the 727. That part will not bolt up to a car trans.
The 318 is a small engine for a motorhome...well built, but small. I have one in my 27ft Travco. You just put your foot down and wait...you'll get there. Just not in a timely manner!
Just my 2 cents, Craig.

hest_c · August 29, 2018, 03:47 PM

@TurbineBronze, good advice, definitely makes sense too. There are a few wrecked RV's near me and the owners are asking $500 for the motor and tranny, is that a decent price or a bit high? Considering that I would assume the engine or both will need a rebuild it seems a bit much but again, learning the ropes here!

legomybago · August 29, 2018, 04:03 PM

Quote from: turbinebronze on August 29, 2018, 02:12 PM
I would suggest finding a motorhome that has the 440/413-727 combo and pick that up. It will need a refresh, but it would bolt in (for the most part...the devil is in the details!)
The 440 will not bolt up to the 318 trans. It is a different bell housing.
And check the trans. I think yours has the e-brake mounted to the tailstock of the 727. That part will not bolt up to a car trans.
The 318 is a small engine for a motorhome...well built, but small. I have one in my 27ft Travco. You just put your foot down and wait...you'll get there. Just not in a timely manner!
Just my 2 cents, Craig.

I plan on doing this someday to a D-18......

Froggy1936 · August 29, 2018, 05:56 PM

$500.00 for a complete engine,carb alternator starter etc & good Transmission with pink fluid , Out of the Veh. I think is a very good price if it was running and moving well last time used ! Frank

hest_c · August 30, 2018, 09:57 AM

Good advice all! I have a neighbor who knows a ton of Mopar guys around town here through his car club so I'll be putting them to work on finding me something good. In the meantime, I also found last night that someone failed to properly secure the air filter and the bolt that holds it to the carb was actually sitting down in the butterflies for the carb, essentially blocking any additional opening of the carb. I haven't had a chance to drive again but I suspect this will greatly improve the driving over what I experienced the first day when I drove it home. Sheesh, some people shouldn't be allowed near engines!!!!

legomybago · August 30, 2018, 10:10 AM

Quote from: hest_c on August 30, 2018, 09:57 AM
Good advice all! I have a neighbor who knows a ton of Mopar guys around town here through his car club so I'll be putting them to work on finding me something good. In the meantime, I also found last night that someone failed to properly secure the air filter and the bolt that holds it to the carb was actually sitting down in the butterflies for the carb, essentially blocking any additional opening of the carb. I haven't had a chance to drive again but I suspect this will greatly improve the driving over what I experienced the first day when I drove it home. Sheesh, some people shouldn't be allowed near engines!!!!

It's going to run like a 440 now......

hest_c · August 30, 2018, 11:41 AM

Quote from: legomybago on August 30, 2018, 10:10 AM
It's going to run like a 440 now......

Lol, wouldn't that take the cake! Still need a bigger engine though as we are planning on towing a vehicle so 440 it is! Someone recommended that the 383 might be a good option as well? Don't know if that would be powerful enough or if it's a direct bolt in as well, thoughts? I kind of figure that if I'm going to spend the money I might as well go big or go home, right?

srosa707 · August 30, 2018, 12:08 PM

Be sure to inspect the back half of the chassis before towing anything. The Winnebago-installed frame extension is sketchy, at best

turbinebronze · August 30, 2018, 01:04 PM

500$ for a complete engine/trans isn't a bad price. If your lucky, you might be able to hear it run in the unit before it is pulled. And...if the unit is still there after it's pulled, all the bits and pieces that are hard to find would still be there if needed.
Do check the color of the fluids like Froggy said..(good thought)
The 383 is a good engine, but the 440/413 is the standard in motorhomes. They would be easier to find.
And I hate to say it, but be careful on taking advice from a bunch of car guys. They will mean well, but they might throw advice at you that's good for a car, but might not be the best for a slogging motorhome! (big cam, high compression...). Chrysler didn't do a bad job with the industrial engines they put in motorhomes.
Oh, another thought. Look at the exhaust manifolds on the big block Chrysler. They will crack...Change that out before putting it in the vehicle!
Just my 2 cents, Craig

BamBam · August 30, 2018, 04:33 PM

I'm not up on the 318's as I'm a big block guy and a Mopar muscle-head! That being said, talk to your buddy about re-curving the distributor, advancing the timing to about 10-12*, if not already a good 4bbl intake and newer carb, and installing a good free flowing exhaust will really wake up a Mopar, like I said, can't speak for the 318's. That and of course a good tune up. Good Luck

legomybago · August 30, 2018, 06:31 PM

Do not go 383. 440/413 along with the donor vehicle Is your best option. That way you can just swap part for part to your rig. Only issue is getting rid of the cannibalized motorhome...

LJ-TJ · August 30, 2018, 07:26 PM

Ok! Hold the fort. KISS! Keep it simple stupid. You are looking for a 440-3 and the 727 trans that it's bolted to. PERIOD. If the opportunity is there to get the engine and the tranny together. GRRRRREAT. Don't piss around. There's a reason Winnebago put them together in a motor home. More importantly take her out to the local State Park for the rest of the summer and tinker with the small stuff. Amazing how little accomplishments will inspire you to go on to bigger and bigger project. To the point when a project doesn't go so well you can reflect on how much fun you had in her and that's just enough to push you over the top and finish the project. If you can get a 440-3 with the tranny hooked up for $500.00. If it were me, I'd go for it. Shoot there's enough guys here to walk you through any of the engine problems you might run across. There is no sweeter a sound than when you here those second dairy's open up. Sound like it going to suck the dog house down into the carb. 5 to 8 and sometimes,rarely 10 miles to the gallon.

tmsnyder · August 31, 2018, 02:06 PM

They also knew what they were doing when they put a 318 in that RV. You just found one thing messed up on the engine, there's probably more. Do a tune up. See what new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, air filter does to the engine. Get it timed properly. I would make sure that everything was working properly on that engine before jumping into an engine swap. The 318 was one of the best engines dodge ever made imo.

hest_c · August 31, 2018, 04:14 PM

Thanks for the advice all! This is a long term project so, if the opportunity presents itself to snatch a good 440-3 with tranny I'll do it but I'm really in no hurry. I'll be curious to see what impact a good tune up does for it as well as fixing any other issues that the PO's mechanic might have buggered up too. I know the 318 is a great motor and the TF 3 speed is rock solid but eventually we want to take longer trips and I really don't want to have me driving one while the wife drives the other!

Another question, again for down the road, but has anyone installed the shift kit that many articles have suggested? There is one specific to towing and the claim is that it helps with better shifts and less wear overall. Wasn't sure if that was something to consider too.

Thanks again all, be safe out there this holiday weekend!

BamBam · September 01, 2018, 02:01 PM

Shift kits are more of a Hot Rodding thing. All they do is make the shifts faster between gears then normal. I don't think you'd like the results in a motorhome. Good Luck

yellowrecve · September 01, 2018, 11:19 PM

Shift kits firm up the shift, meaning the transmission does not slip into gear to make it feel soft. A mild shift kit will make the trans last longer because it removes some of the slip. I'm not talking about racing shift kits.

Rickf1985 · September 03, 2018, 07:18 PM

A Trans-Go Shift improver kit is the best thing you can do for a transmission. It raises the line pressure a bit but not to the point of slamming into the gears. Like was said, it removes the luxury car feel which you don't feel anyway in a heavy motorhome. In doing so it limits the slipping of the clutches.

BUT, You have to be sure the transmission is in good shape to begin with. A shift improver kit will not repair a worn transmission.

TerryH · September 04, 2018, 12:48 AM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on September 03, 2018, 07:18 PM
A Trans-Go Shift improver kit is the best thing you can do for a transmission. It raises the line pressure a bit but not to the point of slamming into the gears. Like was said, it removes the luxury car feel which you don't feel anyway in a heavy motorhome. In doing so it limits the slipping of the clutches.

BUT, You have to be sure the transmission is in good shape to begin with. A shift improver kit will not repair a worn transmission.

To be honest, when driving my RV I like to know the exact point it shifts gears.
Luxury car feel is fine in a SUV.

hest_c · September 08, 2018, 01:31 AM

So, going along the same thread, who's swapped in a newer motor? Seems like many look for the 440 or the 413 but has anyone done a newer motor from a Ram? Wondering if the EFI and other setup is worth it? Having a hard time finding 'trustworthy' 440's in my area and getting tired of climbing Colorado hills with the slow 318! i??

Rickf1985 · September 08, 2018, 09:11 AM

The problem is you need torque, not horsepower. Torque comes from longer strokes and most newer engines are smaller displacement. 360 being the maximum. Unless you want to spend big bucks on the Hemi's. I am not sure if the Hemi has the torque needed or not but they use them in the trucks so it is possible. If you want to go that route you would need to find a complete donor vehicle and get ALL, and I mean ALL of the wiring, computers, transmission.
I can tell you that when I was still working I had several 1990 and 91 Dodge pickups with the injected 360's in them and they were DOGS!!! Those trucks had no power at all, plowing with them was a miserable experience. Later ones we got with multipoint injection were much better.

hest_c · September 08, 2018, 09:13 AM

Thatâ€™s what I was worried about. Going down the road of all the wiring harnesses and computers and getting that all rigged up does not sound fun!

Rickf1985 · September 08, 2018, 09:20 AM

You have only been looking for a 440 for a couple weeks or a month, It can take several months or more to find a decent one and you may have to have it shipped. Put the word out to a junkyard and they will put it on the system and find you one on days, could be a long ways away though. I always figure I am going to tear down any used engine I get no matter what to at least put new bearings in it.