Brave 1972 drives like a boat

[stephetmich]

hello !
first, sorry for my english i am french speaking from Québec!
we just bought a 1972 brave (dodge) it runs fantastic , everything is ok. But is it normal that it drives like a boat?  Hm?
Always need to move the  steering wheel.
And if i pass a small bump on the road it wants to deviate.
Is it normal or would it be because one side is low the spring brakes are crushed
or should i check something else?
THANKS!!

[Froggy1936]

These are not very stable veh, Especially if you have a lot of weight up high, . You must have very good shock absorbers , And if the springs are not like new Air bags at all 4 wheels are a must . All free play must be removed from the steering components And radial tires will help a lot . But getting totally rid of the boat feeling Well Good Luck  Hm? Frank

[LJ-TJ]

Sweet looking ride. I'm with Frank. Good shocks and springs are a good spot to keep and eye on when it comes time to change them out. Sounds like it handles more like an old Massey Ferguson tractor than a boat.

[Jonbbrew]

These are not very stable veh, Especially if you have a lot of weight up high, . You must have very good shock absorbers , And if the springs are not like new Air bags at all 4 wheels are a must . All free play must be removed from the steering components And radial tires will help a lot . But getting totally rid of the boat feeling Well Good Luck  Hm? Frank

Good tips. Mine too does some swaying, plus seems like the springs/shocks might need a refresher. I did try to look into airbaggin it but could not find a source for them. So thoughts about where to get springs and or bags?

[postman]

Of the items mentioned, except steering I would rate things. Tires I know mine are bad, Second is shocks, lastly springs and bags. That said being I have experienced the "rough ride" in Dodge dually chassis as well as others.  So does anyone have info. including any pictures of air bags? I rank priority as Tires> Alignment> Shocks> Bags.

[yellowrecve]

My 74 dodge wandered. The front leaf springs were sagging bad. A spring shop replaced and new spring bushings, big improvement. I did the rear too.  New shocks, helped?. Wheel alignment, no change. One bad king pin, improved. I had new radials installed first thing so I cannot compare to bias. As you can see, an old vehicle can be a lot of things combined.

[Sasquatch]

1976 Executive on the M500 chassis....  I fought this for years.

Alignments, added more caster - Some help
Low profile radials (225/70/19.5) - Some help
Bilstein shocks - Big help in the ride, but marginal on steering
Firestone air bags on all four corners - HUGE improvement
Sent the Saginaw gear box in to a specialty rebuilder and had them work their magic - Big improvement

All the above added together, the coach drives like a dream.

[Oz]

Read the topic,
Winnie Wanders

[rockosocko]

Maybe go to a pull-a-part and grab a big sway bar off a HD3500 truck?
Only like $40 and make your own end links etc.


Another Q, how fast are you going? "LIMIT" was 55 back in the 70's. So they're not really set up for autocross.
I'd get in touch with Sasquatch on his mod ideas..


I never understood why ALL RV's have the wheels sooo far inboard? (they look like the old Match-box cars)
And they ALWAYS complain of poor handling.


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[Rickf1985]

The wheels are in the standard position for the light truck chassis that is used. Then the coach manufacturers build the box on top of that chassis and they make it as big as the laws will allow them to so they can get the most living space. You notice that on the bus chassis coaches the wheels are out at the sides since they use a heavy truck chassis. It is a much wider wheelbase.

[rockosocko]

Oh, I understand all that. It's just that the Manufacturers hurt performance by cutting corners and not redesigning a complete, dedicated chassis.


I've got a few designs in my head that would revolutionize the 'trailer' industry world wide.
But it would go AGAINST the status quo, good 'ol boy group. Kinda like the Tucker car. 
And NO WAY are 'they' going to make something that WILL last 20-50yrs..


But, a lot of it goes back to driving abilities of driver and speed of vehicle related to it's design/intended usage.
People are just too used to a smaller, lighter vehicle that they get that "pucker factor" when that corner comes up too fast or some idiot cuts them off. (that 1-ton chassis just can't take a 12,000# body like it could the weight of a flat bed service truck)


I thought of just wheel adapters for Super-Single semi wheels back there. Might look cool but I think that the mods that Sasquatch states would probably work better.
This '73 that i just stripped didn't even have a rear swaybar!! Just a front one.


Hey, there's an Idea! I'll sell ya my front one cheap and you can modify it for the rear.  The frame is just parallel all the way back, so the attaching points would be easy, just make bushings and attach up at cross-member.
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[Sasquatch]

I have to say that even after driving many newer coaches (even high end diesel pushers), with my mods, my 76 handles pretty darn good.


But here is the key, you MUST get the suspension back to as close to new condition as possible first.  Everything must be in great shape.  All the rubber bits, king pins (oh yeah, my nylon king pin bushings were replaced with bronze years ago as well), tie rod ends, steering box, etc.  It all must be as good as it can be or you are just trying to put bandaids on things.


The combination of things I have done/added make it drive fantastic.  Not just great for "an old coach", but genuinely good even at today's standards. (read my above list)


I am going to do one last mod to the suspension and call it good.  I used to have a link saved of a thread on here where a member made a "trac bar" that controlled side to side movement of the rear end by tying the differential to the frame using large heim joints and an adjustable bar.  I am going to do the same for both the front and the rear.  This should take the last bit of slop out of the suspension.  Leaf springs control movement int he vertical and front to back pretty well, but do not do well side to side.  I have to believe there is some movement here.  I do not know if I will do it this summer or save it for next year.  But it is on the list.

[rockosocko]

^^what he said.


Just out of curiosity, can you give an approximate cost of all the mods/parts you did to yours?

If one knows of a plasma cutting business, you could take a rear axle cover gasket and cut that pattern out of 3/4" steel and at the top make an attaching point for a Wats-link type of setup.
Yours sounds easier/cheaper though. You can buy the Chrome, HD thick wall DOM by the foot fairly cheap.
It's the HEIMS that get expensive.. Probably over $100ea for the size required.

Another thing I thought of was getting a pair of torsion bars from a later model pickup and attaching one end longitudinally to frame and the other end above the rear axle with an adjustable arm (for preload) to make an "L". That way you can adjust the stiffness according to the driving terrain. ie, hills of the Ozarks or flats of Iowa etc. (i'm a welder and well.. cheap)


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[LJ-TJ]

Whoaaaa We here may be a lot of things here. Traders. swaper's, frugal, thrifty but never,never cheap. N:(

[TerryH]

Whoaaaa We here may be a lot of things here. Traders. swaper's, frugal, thrifty but never,never cheap. N:(

And, 'hate paying someone else to do what I can do myself. May take me longer to do it, but my wallet does not get any lighter.'   

[Rickf1985]

I already have that track bar on the rear of my 89 Winnebago with the Jet ride air suspension. That track rod is 3/4" or 1" round stock, tow piece and adjustable with rubber bushings on the ends. I have been having a hell of a time finding the bushings since nobody lists them. They are a 5/8 hole if I remember correctly for the bolt but I don't know what the outer diameter is because I would have to take it off and basically cut the bushing to get the right size. I can't do that if I don't have a replacement.
I also have the rear sway bar which is also massive at 5/8 to 3/4 diameter and the front sway bar is about the same. I think the biggest thing is the skinny tires. I am due for replacements and since they never wear enough to rotate I am going to go with wider tires on the front this time around.

[Froggy1936]

Has any manufacturer running the 22 in tires gone to the Single very wide tires the truckers are using ? Though that would necessitate 2 spares .Frank

[rockosocko]

Rick: Take your pick.. Dozens of manufacturers!  Also, look up "Johnny Joints" with your dimensions you need.
You just have to watch the movement 'arc' so you don't bind anywhere shoving the rod either way.
I had one on my '72 Monte and '66 Impala that were adjustable, and LOVED them.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1OKWM_enUS818US818&ei=q5nsXNK9Nc2y0PEPsbea6Aw&q=Rock+Crawler+builder+parts+Heim+joints&oq=Rock+Crawler+builder+parts+Heim+joints&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i71l8.0.0..133354...0.0..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.ILXRN4eLY_I




Froggy: take a read through this. (i just 'googled'-- What's the smallest Super Single truck tire size)
https://solutions.letstruck.com/Answers/View/4199/I+need+a+short+super+single+tire.+For+closed+fender+application.


I'm kinda in this situation also with my '95 chevy 2500 flat bed. I already have the Alcoa wheels/Rims but they're 22.5's.  I didn't know at the time that there was a 19.5" super single
That way I can run a 4.10/locker 14 bolt rear.
...BUT just the adapters can run anywhere between $500-$850 for 2!! (those 20 bolts per wheel, and all the machining gets expensive I guess)

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