Have you ran a Semi Synthetic 10w30?

[BrandonMc]

Searched this forum and the internet for an answer, and am not 100% confident - so I ask you guys:

Have you ran high mileage semi-synthetic in a late 80's carburated 454?
Does the zinc content matter much?
What are your results?

Went ahead and purchased some of the amazon high mileage 10w30 semi synthetic and am planning on changing it for the upcoming season. What I have read is that running a full synthetic is a bad idea in these engines.


Edit: In the interests of providing some more information, I may have solved the question. from another forum bobtheoilguy,


"As stated above, the OEM cams, lifters and valve springs will all live long and happy lives with 800 PPM of ZDDP, once broken in. For you, that happened long ago. Plenty of oil out there with that."

I didn't find the exact test for the 10w30 high mileage sold by amazon, but I did find two analyses of a fully synthetic 0w20 at 812ppm zinc, and a conventional 5w20 with 842ppm zinc. This was on the PQIA website. 

[Rickf1985]

I just run 15W-40 Rotella diesel rated oil. It has the phosphorus and Zinc you need and it does not cost anywhere near as much as the synthetics. It also has additive that keep carbon and dirt in suspension so it gets trapped by the oil filter. This is if major concern in diesels due to more blowby than in gasoline engines especially after the onset of computerized fuel injection.


It does not have to be Rotella, it can be any of the major brand 15W-40 diesel oils.

[Sasquatch]

For years and years I have been running Shell Rotella T6 5/40 synthetic in EVERYTHING I own as well as my shop oil for all my customers bikes.  Over the last 2 weeks my mind, as well as many of my well set in personal beliefs about oil weights, protections offered, and additives (like zinc) had been completely blown.  Grab a cup of coffee, cool drink, whatever, and start reading.


https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/


This guy has more knowledge and experience testing oils and real world knowledge than I ever will.  Needless to say, I will no longer be running my beloved T6 oils any more.  In fact, I will no longer be running anything with a cold rating higher than 30 wt. any more.  I will be switching my RV, BMW, Motorcycles, and Mercedes to a 5w/30 synthetic that is very highly tested and rated on his blog.  He has tested and ranked somewhere over 200 oil brands and weights as well as offering so much engineering data on how engines and oils work to support his findings.  It will take you some time to get through and digest, but it is WELL WORTH THE READ.  And, as a spoiler, he TOTALLY crushes the high zinc content belief for flat tappet cams.

[Froggy1936]

This is a very long explanation. But you can learn quite a bit about oil. Me personally I have always allowed cranking till pressure is observed on gauge, before turning on the fuel pump switch .( on carbureted veh cranking till pressure is observed before setting choke ).Which has served me well, especially when the veh sits quite a while. Also i faithfully use STP For first oil add . I found that opening up racing engines at start of racing season after sitting on the bench for 4 mo. There was a coating of lubricant (from STP) everywhere esp. on the bearing surfaces . I did not see any references to additives in the blog . Frank

[Sasquatch]

The top oil in his test had an oil additive added to it.  I forgot which one though.

[Rickf1985]

For years and years I have been running Shell Rotella T6 5/40 synthetic in EVERYTHING I own as well as my shop oil for all my customers bikes.  Over the last 2 weeks my mind, as well as many of my well set in personal beliefs about oil weights, protections offered, and additives (like zinc) had been completely blown.  Grab a cup of coffee, cool drink, whatever, and start reading.


https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

After reading the article for about a half hour I started to see a pattern of this guy constantly saying " My data proved that to be the case" and patting himself on the back. Over and over and over and over.........................
I am not saying he did not do good research BUT, Did anybody that read that SEE any of the research? Did anyone SEE any of the tests? Any descriptions of the tests?


I am not going to doubt his data is good but I am going to take it with a grain of salt since he is obviously part salesman if not for anything other than to convince everyone that the his data that he "Does not care if anyone believes or not" And "Do NOT listen to the people that talk bad about my data" Supposedly is unbiased about appears that he is very biased.
And with no factual proof in real scientific data to show, And he is BIG, BIG, BIG on scientific data, I have a hard time believing all that he is saying. What makes this any different than all of the other "Oil experts" out there? Show me the tests, show me the factual data.


I sent this off to a friend of mine who is a chemical engineer who does actually have an affiliation with an oil company loosely. His family has owned quite a few Shell stations in the Midwest for many years. But he is on my military vehicle forum and he has no issues recommendation oils other than Shell oil if he feels it is a better oil. I am curious to get his take on this and see the other side of the opinion.

[Sasquatch]

I read the entire blog a couple of times now.  Some of my concerns (and maybe yours as well) were answered farther in his blogs.

I did find that he restated his credentials a bit much.  But being that it is a collection of blogs, not one continuous one, I gave him a bit of a pass on that one.  I am sure the test he used is similar to the scar test used by Amsoil and others that will test film strength very quickly.  It is a reliable test of film strength.

Now, it does not test some other aspects of oil, and there were places in his blog where he did state that it was not a 'complete' test of oils, so I give him credit there.  But the part I found fascinating was where he really got into oil weights.  I am of old school thought where thicker oils are better for high performance applications.  His data disproving that was compelling.  I am also a mechanical engineer and professional mechanic and all around gear head.  I found it hard to fault his theories on oil weights in relation to protection in an engine.  His data was backed up by real world input from racers who were having problems with thicker oils and engine failures who solved them by going to thinner oils with better test results.

Now, my disclaimer.  I am NOT saying that he is the end all on this debate.  But he makes some VERY good points that are well worth considering.  Do I think I am going to hurt my 440 by switching from Rotella T6 5/40 to the Valvoline synthetic 5/30 MaxLife?  I highly doubt it.  As a mechanic, I am blown away (in my old school thinking) by the number of modern high strung, hot running engines lasting a VERY long time on 0W/20 oils.  Many are turbo charged even.  Many also still have flat tappet cams, even if they are overhead cam designs, like motorcycles.  All surviving a long time on low zinc oils.  My BMW for example, while it is a dual overhead cam I-6, is a flat tappet cam design.  It went most of the first 200k miles with the original owner on BMW 5w/30 oil.  I switched it to T6 when I bought it at 201k miles.  It runs flawlessly.

Anyway, I think he makes a VERY good argument for going to a thinner oil as long as you still have adequate hot oil pressure (at least 10 psi per 1000 rmps) and the oil is a high quality oil.  I am going to switch and see what I notice.  Quite frankly, I do not think I will actually see any difference that can be verified.  The difference in fuel mileage will be below the margin of error I am sure.

[Rickf1985]

I have no issues with the thinner oils, The manufacturers are going with them and have lifetime engine warranties. They certainly are not going to push a lightweight oil AND a lifetime warranty if they are not sure it will work. Can you imagine hundreds of thousands of engines failing under warranty? They were using 0 weight oils and also larger than recommended bearing clearances in qualifying engines in NASCAR to get the fastest speed possible. The engine only had to last 4-5 laps and sometimes it did not even make that but I think a lot of that was the loose clearances to lower oil pressure.Less pressure means more horsepower. Now they have to run the engine they qualify so that is all out the window but they do still use 0 weight oils. I run the recommended 5W-20 synthetic in my 4.6 Mustang and I initially worried about it but then you look at the Mustangs out there pushing 750-850 horses running the same oil and doing so dependably WITH a warranty!


My problem is that he talks like the 15W-40 diesel rated oils are so bad your engine is going to fail in 500 miles. I have a Ford Powerstroke pushing 600,000 miles and it runs like it was a new engine. I have worked on many other light duty diesels with similar mileages and results. And look at the big trucks running the same oils, and not only that they are utilizing the Blackstone labs testing. These outfits have many millions of dollars out there rolling down the road and it cannot be down for engine problems, period. If the oil was so bad or the labs were not worth it then they would be doing something else. This guy cannot be the only person on earth that is doing this research.
Again, show me the factual data to back up what you say.

[BrandonMc]

In the end, I used 5qts of the the amazon basics 10w30, and added two quarts of VR1 racing oil for the 7 total in a 454. The VR1 contains higher zinc content.


The fresh oil changed seems to have quieted the engine a bit, and does smell more like the older classic car exhaust with addition of the VR1.




amazon basics upon some research, may be very similar to walmart's supertech.

[fasteddie313]

My BMW for example, while it is a dual overhead cam I-6, is a flat tappet cam design.  It went most of the first 200k miles with the original owner on BMW 5w/30 oil.  I switched it to T6 when I bought it at 201k miles.  It runs flawlessly.

You bought a Bimmer @ 200k? What is it?
I have an S50 and an M54, both I6 DOHC BMW engines, both @ about 110k now, T6 in both, and expect them both to last a very long time like yours..


T6 has a great sale on at NAPA and $7 per gal rebate for a total of like $14 a gallon so I just bought a bunch the other day..


At that price I might as well put it in the 454 and Onan too no?
Might go buy more..

[lgsch3575]

I am new to this forum. I have a 1984 Shasta motorhome on a chevy p30 chassis. I generally use 10w40 conventional oil. I tried a 10w30 synthetic oil in my 350 sbc because I was told it is a better oil. I took a 150 mile trip. I went through 4 qts. of oil. I replaced the oil with 10w40 conventional oil. On the return trip I went through 1 qt. of oil. The remainder of the 5 qts after oil change. On following trips I haven't used any oil. I will never use synthetic oil in an older engine again.

[tmsnyder]

LOL I had the same experience, just stick with Rotella 15w40, it's good stuff.


On a side note, after seeing a guy cut open oil filters on YouTube, I'll NEVER buy another Fram filter again!

[beaverman]

I've used Castrol 20/50 with a quart of Lucas in all my big block Chevys for over 20 years now, never ever a problem, quit using Fram filters about the same time, Wix filters have never failed me, JMHO as always.. your mileage may vary!

[Eyez Open]

I just love oil threads on these vintage engines, almost nothing surprises me anymore. Recently i fired up a 83 454 65k on the speedo that had sat dead for 10yrs, i did turn the engine for a few minutes with no spark just because it was good manners. Two yrs later it runs so smooth it is a bit scary, i to use diesel oil it merely is a high detergent oil with zinc as a additve.

After a timing recurve, plugs and wires i could not be happier..and a total emissons delete. Oils made 35 yrs later are so far ahead of the curve its trival pursuit in my mind, but there is always a but...adding marvel mystery oil to the gas does smooth it out to the point of absolutely 0 vibration at 700 rpm....its always something novel in a oil thread...My greatest concern is when the rear main starts leaking..LMAO and it will..just when is the million dollar question.