Why should I not eventually buy one of these?

[fasteddie313]

I want one.. If I could just buy any MH I wanted it would be one of these.. Late 80's- early 90's
Link for pics.. https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/1985-Prevost-Prevost-H3-40-5005830209


Not that one in specific but they are out there for that price. $45k



If/when the time is right to be serious about RVing, likely full time, why not buy one of these things?


They seem far away better than most anything else you can get for under/around $50k.
They are extremely solid construction with a drivetrane and chassis designed to be maintained for a million miles, literally.


I think one of these would absolutely last FOREVER with proper care and would be the most likely to skate past RV park age restrictions and never look dated.
They will probably safely tow more than any other RV. They will fly down the road at or above the speed limit better than any other RV. They have the legendary 8V92 Detroit diesel engines and Allison transmissions.
Even the coach mechanicals, electronics, and plumbing are on a whole other level of quality, no cheap crap. 


The cons?
Higher drivetrane maintenance costs. When it breaks it will be more expensive to fix but should be maintainable to last literally forever.
More expensive tires that would probably age out before they wear out. Slightly worse gas mileage. No slides.


But what else are you going to get for a serious RV around $50k? Junk!!
They are all flimsy floppy boxes that will fall apart and be trash in 10 years and not realistically maintainable for the rest of my life like I think a real bus would be.





Doesn't that just make you drool? Twin EGTs!


Look at the pics of the switchgear and monitoring gear (gauges) in these things. They are like aircraft quality with real quality switches and gauges for everything.


Most of them I look at even have copper plumbing, diesel generators, etc.
That generator is a sailboat engine and you can get all the parts for it easily, everything..
Everything is just top notch quality, done right in the first place, everything.. No cheap chincy crap just high quality everything that could be maintained and fixed to last forever unlike almost anything else on the market..


These will probably hold their value close to the best as well. The depreciation is already gone.
Say you even got a good deal on a relatively newer $50k range RV. Even if you take great care of it but actually use it for 10-15 years, what will you have then?
It would probably just be plane worn out, falling apart, and worth very little.. Try putting 200k or 300k miles on and live in a regular RV  fulltime for 10-15 years. Even if you could make it last that long it would be worth basically nothing at that point.


A lot of the newer stuff has likely out-of-my-league complex electronic systems, but made up of lower quality parts, for example. 
One of these older things is going to have simpler understandable systems (though their are many) without the latest insane electronics all made of high quality replaceable components.
All the switches are real switches, gauges are real gauges, they are actually labeled.

Look at that.. That's the right way to do it..
That's the way you do it in the oilfield, or in the military, or in industry. It's not a toy..


If you wanted to do it once and do it right. Buy once cry once, for a longterm plan, wouldn't one of these be the way to go?


Maybe it's just personal preference and what does it for you..
The quality of every last system and all of the componentry does it for me. Those switches are beautiful.
The polished stainless steel exterior does it for me.. That's doing it right..
That engine does it for me.. They aren't JUST an 8V92 but they are the top of the line Silver series 8V92 at over 400 HP stock and have insane tuning potential.
It's not really the interiors that do it for me.. I actually don't like half of them but it's not something I care that much about.

What do you think?


That's all for the rant right now I suppose..
In reality my Rambler is still solid and always improving. I've made a lot of it pretty nice.


I'm pretty sure I'm picking up another MH here soon.
I believe it is an 1987 fleetwood southwind p30 with a very good 454 and everything is in nice shape but it is delam hell. Absolutely unrepairable. Such a shame, so it is is just parts and/or storage until I'm done with it and tell the junkyard to come get it.
That's what has me thinking motorhomes lately..


Rick, it's crazy what happened to your house!
And Kevin, it's crazy what happened to your driveshaft!!

[tmsnyder]

Slightly worse fuel mpg?  It's a two stroke diesel, I don't think you're going to slightly worse mpg's.   Anyone know what these get? Must be common knowledge for greyhound when they used these.  Just wouldn't want you to have a surprise, like 6mpg. Other than that I think you're completely right, that thing is awesome.

[Froggy1936]

A 46 toggle switch Control panel WOW EJ Would go batty ! Yep Original million dollar coaches would be a good deal @ $50K  But just like everything most on here are operating in the $5-10 K range !   Frank

[Rickf1985]

Price out brake shoes or even wiper blades for that coach. And even though an 8V92 was a great motor the reason they got rid of them was twofold, emissions and mileage. They were terrible on both. Now, price out an oil change at 15 gallons and two HUGE oil filters. Thats right, GALLONS. And while most of those coaches have had at least an inframe done on the engine I doubt you will find that any of them have had any transmission work done. Allison is VERY proud of their transmissions, And if you ever need to get that one rebuilt you are looking at many thousands just for the rebuild not including the removal of the engine and transmission. Back in the day the big shops had the jigs to remove the engines on these but as they aged out the jigs went away as new ones came in. Now it is all grunt work to get them out. Grunt work is time consuming at close to 200.00 an hour shop rate. Don't get me wrong, I would buy one in a heartbeat if I found one at the right price. I would insure it heavily and if something major went I would empty it out and tell the shop "it is all yours".


By the way, Do you know what a slobber tube is? All Detroits have them. They vent the crankcase gases out of the engine down to the ground and they are very aptly named. This is NOT a vehicle you would want to tow a toad behind!!

[LJ-TJ]

 D:oH! Man yeah gots to love all the knobs, dials, bells and whistles. BUT not meaning to rain on your parade. What'da think a set of tires would cost yeah! Plus where you going to park it. Hm?

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Slightly worse fuel mpg?  It's a two stroke diesel, I don't think you're going to slightly worse mpg's.   Anyone know what these get? Must be common knowledge for greyhound when they used these.  Just wouldn't want you to have a surprise, like 6mpg. Other than that I think you're completely right, that thing is awesome.

A couple of years ago, when we visited Tombstone, AZ, a guy and his wife were camped next to us in a coach nearly identical to this one.  A 2 stroke diesel Prevost.  It was a beautiful coach.  I asked him what kind of fuel economy he was getting, thinking it would probably be around 10 or 12mpg.  He laughed, saying he was lucky to get 6mpg!  He said it was the 2 stroke diesel...very powerful and responsive, but horrible MPG.  That is what he told me anyway.

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

There just happens to be one of these for sale near me in Surprise, AZ...for less than 15K.  Looks like a nice rig!

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/rvs/d/sun-city-west-1985-prevost-le-mirage-xl/6846539612.html

Kev

[khantroll]

I wanted one of these for years, but Rick hit on why I didn't buy one. The cost of maintenance and repair is just too high. Oil changes are hundreds of dollars, and major engine or transmission work is in the 10s of thousands. My Winnebago, on the other hand, could have both rebuilt within the limits of a credit card. They are nice coaches, but I just couldn't justify the risk.

[fasteddie313]

You guys are great! Thanks for the comments!

I read that if you drive them as you please, no matter what you are pulling, or wind, or hills, or speed you drive, they get about 5.5MPG.. $50k is a bit of money but not completely unobtainable if a person wasn't trying to afford a house payment or rent at the same time, or kids, or multiple cars.

Rick it seems hard to look up parts, I haven't figured out yet where to see parts diagrams for what year coaches, but the steer and tag axle brake pads seem to be about $150 per axle just for pads. The drive axle has drums that are supposed to be 170lbs each, lol, and I haven't found the price of linings for those. But they say it is extremely rare to need new rotors or drums because the brakes are extremely underworked in a coach. I read that the coaches are usually operate around only 1/3 of rated capacity so the breaks last a very very long time. Brakes are more expensive but how long do you figure they would last? Prolly a long long time.. They have jake brakes too so brake pads probably last an extremely long time.

Oil changes are 10,000 miles. 26.6 quarts of Delo 100 Motor Oil SAE 40 @ $95.64 for a 5 gallon bucket you need about 6.5 gallons so $200 for 10 gallons oil and you have 3 gallons left for topups. Oil filter is under $20 at napa..

Major engine or trans overhauls are very expencive yes, but I would think the chances of needing one would be lower.. A set of heads for the 8v92 is $1,000 and complete sleeve/piston kits are $300 per jug.. I think under $5,000 in parts to completely refresh an 8v92.. Here is $3,250 for a complete bottom end rebuild kit if you didnt need a crank or block https://dieselpro.com/detroit-engine-rebuild/8v92-rebuild-kit-for-turbo-engine/detroit-diesel-8v92-engine-overhaul-repair-kit-ta-inframe-rebuild.html#.XJjrhJhKhPY

The "slobber tubes" I read about.. The later 8Vs has them drain back to the oilpan but it is advised to remove them and put them to a catch can, or to put them to a catch can period, and dump it with your oil change..
I don't know anything about the allison trans yet..

Tires are a lot but good for 10 years on the rear and 7 years on the front. I think they are about $800 each done at a shop but you can buy all 8 here for about $3,000 https://www.tires-easy.com/315-80-22.5/roadlux-tires/r216/tirecode/RLA0087?gclid=CjwKCAjw-OHkBRBkEiwAoOZqlx-Nh2M0nSS69VPpJpYPgySpJESAQrW9g6LUz2MuIdS4eyfSUUt9mRoCh98QAvD_BwE Wow that one for $15k and has the silver engine too.. 385k miles, and some decent recent service listed but speedo and tach not working. That could be a steal but may be a lemon.. Awesome seeing a possible one in that price range though!! Very attainable..

Parking it would be no problem around my usual location. I think about putting a motorhome pad and roof in the woods on my moms/family property for a "home base" place I could always go.. Or my property but we would probably sell it or rent it out if we moved into a motorhome. I can think of about 6 places I could put it around here but out on the road I have no idea.. Park it at the RTR

I have a class A CDL so I'm not afraid to drive something like that. After driving a fullsized tractor-trailer around busy cities in unfamiliar states I'm pretty confident I can drive about anywhere and am familiar with air brakes..

Yeah they are expensive but would last a person FOREVER once sorted out. 1 engine overhaul would last almost a lifetime - 300k-400k miles.. You would probably need a new 454 every 100k miles right? The coach would never shake itself apart. Accident/crash safety is massively better in a real bus X100 (that's how I will sell the Gf on it he he)

If you budgeted $30k to buy one, and another $15k-$20k for repairs, refresh, and maintenance, do you think you would still be better off to buy an average $50k RV instead? Or is it just not worth it in any logical sense other than paying a premium for what you want because you want it?

Atleast it's not like I'm wanting a $300,000 rig that is going to lose $200,000 of value in the time I would own it. People blow $50k all the time buying a new mercedes when we all know that a $3,000 Toyota will get the same job done, while I like to spend about twice that and buy the 100k mile BMW and enjoy doing all of my own work. I think we all pay a little more than we have to for things because we want something better than the bare bones minimum.

Frank said "most on here are operating in the $5-10 K range !" , well, are you operating everything you own on a 5-10k range? Your entire life? Or is that just all you have left over to operate an RV budget? I'm talking having one of these things instead of living in a house and too many projects. As compared to paying a house payment, paying rent, paying cash for a house, or the rent income you could get from a house you own, and all the other dumb crap you have when you have a house and kids and more than one car and toys, really opens up the budget for a $50k RV that will last as long as you please to keep it I think..

What if you were ready to retire and wanted to retire to an RV like many do? What would you want to set yourself up in? Something big and nice enough to be comfortable in and proud of. Something that once you paid for it and put the money into it to make it sound you could sleep well at night knowing you are set for the long haul. What would you choose if you had a budget for it around $50k or even under $100k? What could provide better long term security?
These coaches are time tested and extreme duty tested. No surprises like anything newer that is relatively untested, unproven, has an unknown expiration date, and may very well fall apart, split in half, catch on fire, who knows..

Imagine getting caught in a hurricane or tornado in an RV, lol.. I wonder what you would rather be in..

[fasteddie313]

I was inspired to make you guys a meme!

[Rickf1985]

Well Eddie, You have done your research and that is good. I am not saying to not get a bus, I am always on the lookout. The one thing you did not include in your engine repair pricing was the removal and teardown of the engine. This is NOT a Chevy V8! You need special jigs or well made trolleys to get that engine out of there. Not something you are going to do by yourself and without some very large tools. You will need many jacks of all different configurations to get the motor onto whatever trolley you build to roll it out of there. And once you get it out then what are you going to do with it? Do you have a fairly large loader so you can lift it? Not hanging this one from the tree branch in the back yard. N:(   This is what we are talking about when we say tens of thousands for a rebuild. This stuff you just cannot do in the backyard.


As far as the tach and speedo on the one for sale, they are both probably sensors that are bad but with all of the stuff he mentioned that had to be replaced I would be my next pension check that the underside of that unit is rusty as hell. Probably used as a tour bus at a ski resort or used extensively in the winter on salted roads. The skin may be stainless steel but everything else is plain ordinary rust prone metal.


Oh, And if you think buses don't roll.................... You are sadly mistaken. I ran heavy wreckers for many years and I uprighted quite a few buses and several luxo tour buses and RV's. It happens. And they do not fare much better that the newer RV's. The older RV's were just plain death boxes. Sorry gang, but when I had to go to an accident that involved an older RV there would be wood everywhere!

[fasteddie313]

I have done some research but not complete by far.. These are harder to research than a typical car for example..
I value your replies and hope I don't come off as argumentative.

I think you can rebuild these things "in frame" (they call it) and not pull the engine.. It looks like the going rate for an in-frame complete overhaul is about $15,000 at a shop. I don't know what needs to be done to pull cylinder sleeves but I would guess some sort of portapower jig..


Or. This guy seems to be using the piston/crank to push them out by sticking a bolt across the ports.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbA2Sr9jyTM

I guess the sleeves aren't press fit too tightly?


I wonder what the odds of an inspected good 8v92 engine is of blowing up and at what mileage..
From what I have found they are only really sensitive to poorly maintained cooling systems and overheating so you must watch the temp gauge a lot especially climbing hills, and watch the EGTs not letting them get over 900F or something. What is the risk of them blowing up if you don't overheat them?


""""""""""" 8V-92TA and 6V-92TA on average should last 500,000 miles before first overhauls. If you take an average of 50mph, then that works out to be 10,000 hours between overhaul. Course, there is scheduled maintenance between those numbers. On 2 stroke engines, the rack should be run every 100,000 miles; main and rod bearings should be rolled in every 200,000 miles; injectors should be pulled and pop tested every 300,000 miles along with having the blower and turbo overhauled. All in all, the 2 stroke engines are maintenance intensive, compared to the new 4 stroke engines that just require an initial valve adjustment at 60,000 miles, then when ever power loss is felt-and no scheduled injector or bearing replacement in 1.2 million miles.""""""""""

Good ideas to look for rust, period, but how long are brake chambers good for?
that would be a good part to keep a spare of each kind on hand and replace when/if they go. I hear it is also good to have push connect couplers for 1/4 3/8 and 1/2 inch air line and some spare line of each size handy..


As far as the transmission my searches are coming up empty so far and could very well be an insane job to ever replace one. I'll keep looking.


I do not doubt one bit that they would roll..

[ClydesdaleKevin]

There just happens to be one of these for sale near me in Surprise, AZ...for less than 15K.  Looks like a nice rig!

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/rvs/d/sun-city-west-1985-prevost-le-mirage-xl/6846539612.html

Kev

Too late.  The post was taken down by the seller.  I didn't expect an 85 Prevost with a Detroit diesel priced at less than 15K to last very long.

Kev

[Rickf1985]

Depending on the overall condition that would actually be a good candidate for a  Cummins repower. Then you get your mileage up.

[fasteddie313]

Too late.  The post was taken down by the seller.  I didn't expect an 85 Prevost with a Detroit diesel priced at less than 15K to last very long.Kev

Yeah I noticed that it was gone just a bit before you posted it when I tried to show it to GF..
She said you probably bought it.. I thought about joking with you guys and telling you that I wired him the cash sight unseen, lol..

Cummins repower. Then you get your mileage up.

Why? Other than a mpg or 2, do you think the 8V92 is a poor engine for a motorhome? Is the cummins going to make 450HP on a conservative tune?


I thought the 8V92 would be a good choice for a DIYer because they are easy to work on, easy to find information on, easy to find parts for, plenty of them in salvage yards all across the country, and a lot of mechanics familiar with them, similar to a 454.. No?


I thought the 8V92 was one of the greatest reasons FOR buying one of these things rather than a reason not to buy one, but I am not much of a diesel guy so I don't really know squat I guess..


What are the service prospects of an 8V92 compared to other diesels found in RVs? I think we can rule out anything EGR or DEF or DPF right?


Stepping up to a pre-EGR DD60 Prevost is a rediculous amount more money, like $50k more easy, twice the price, because they are in such high demand for being pre-EGR, and that is when you could get them with slides that I don't want anyway (though Prevost has the best slides no question).. 
Yes the DD60 is a better engine. Its service life is rated at 1.2 million miles compared to the 500k mile 8V92, and the DD60 gets like 1 or 2 MPG more than the 8V, but they are out of the realm of being realistically attainable because they are like $90k-$250k while the 8Vs are like $30k-$80k..


When we are talking $50k how much does MPG really matter..
Say we drive 10,000 miles, lets compare 5.5MPG to 7MPG..
1820 gallons VS 1430 = 390 gallons difference X $3 a gallon = about $1,200 difference every 10k miles.. So about $600 a year difference if you drive across the country and back every year..






One of the things I see very positive about Prevost is parts and service availability.. That their are Prevost service centers across the country and many many shops familiar with them because of the large amount of them in service for transportation companies everywhere. That their are very few NLA Prevost chassis parts compared to almost any other RV because of volume and so many Prevost parts are relatively cheap because of the volume of them running out there, like new windshields are super cheap (for an RV) for them because they go through thousands of them all the time, and general service parts because their are thousands of them racking up millions of miles everywhere, and a very large used parts market of salvaged coaches so things like body panels and bay doors and just in general replacement pieces are extremely available and easy to find compared to most other RVs, especially like Blue Birds or the many RV companies that are now out of business and just impossible to find parts for..
Their is also a premier Prevost dealer/broker only a couple hours drive from me PanterraCoach.com

[Rickf1985]

For one thing you will need special exemptions to drive that Detroit in a lot of states to get around the emissions laws. And it is just going to get worse. I am not even sure it is legal to drive that in California. You could go with an L10 Cummins rated to 400 HP and 1375 ft/lbs torque. That engine would probably net you around 10-12 MPG. And Diesel around me is at 3.15 a gallon and rising so I know it is substantially higher near the highways. As far as service, if you can afford to take it to a Prevost dealer for service then you are probably in a pay grade that can afford the 50 grand and up coaches. As I said before, I would buy one in a heartbeat if I found one for the right price. That one that Kevin found I would have looked at if it were on the East Coast. BUT, The old caveat still applies, you get what you pay for. If you go cheap you get cheap and it is cheap for a reason. Someone else did not want to spend the money to fix it. I have the knowledge and skill to do the work but I simply cannot physically do it anymore. If you are selling a house and planning to move into a coach full time then by all means it should be something that will last the rest of your time on earth. One good thing is that tires in this size do not age out like the older motor home sizes. 22.5" truck tires will happily sit for 10 years with no ill effects. For the amount of driving and the amount of weight involved the brakes should last the life of the vehicle once replaced. One BIG problem with the 8V73 is the fact that you will never be running hard enough to keep it cleaned out. These are high strung engines and they generate a LOT of soot and crankcase fuel contamination. They need to be run hard to keep them hot enough to vaporize the fuel in the oil. (Remember that slobber tube?) hat is one reason you will get better mileage with the smaller engine is because you do not need all the power of the Detroit. More power is more fuel. You have yourself convinced that this IS THE coach for you. This is great, you have a plan. You asked for our opinions and we shared them. You have also done a ton of research on prices, some of which you seemed to have left out but you know what is needed and when. All I can say is that you had better have a good income to pay for the service OR learn to work on diesels and RV's before pulling the trigger on one of these. But if and when you do we certainly want to see pictures, we LOVE pictures.

[legomybago]

Like Rick just said, you have to run them hard (keep them at high RPM's) or they will go through a ton of oil. I ran a 8v92 for a while, never really liked it cause it was paired up to a 13-speed and a truck weighing 100,000 pounds, but it wouldn't stop me from buying the right bus with one.

[tmsnyder]

There was a lot of them out there, doing a lotta lotta miles of hard tractor trailer duty.  Compared to what they were asked to do day in and day out, moving a motorhome leisurely around the country is not much work.  My understanding, granted it's not a lot, just a few data points, is that they did not have a problem with short lives.  One in particular I know of is in a septic guy's dump truck, friend of my father, and it is old and still making him money.


If the one you were looking at sold, I saw one for sale on CL while looking for something else.   Here's one but I saw another one that was nicer:  https://dothan.craigslist.org/rvs/d/andalusia-gmc-bus-motorhome/6840644168.html


https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/rvs/d/huntington-beach-1980-gmc-diesel-bus/6833390488.html

[skloon]

Had a 69 MCI with the same engine I got around 9 mpg Imperial- parts were not that bad in price but getting somebody to work on it was another matter- tires were pricey as it used 9R 22.5 or something like that- my engine gave up the ghost when the intake hose cracked and allowed dust into the engine- suddenly it looked like a 2 stroke- I contemplated buying another bus with a 4000km rebuilt engine for 2500$ and swapping but I had to sell my farm- so no place to store and work on them

[Rickf1985]

If you like buses and you like Detroits go big or go home. Get one of those that came with the 12V71 in them!

[fasteddie313]

Have a gander at these manuals!!
XL-40 1984 - 1989 (360 pages baby) and a different manual to cover XL-40 XL-40 MTH XL-45 XL-45 Entertainer XL-45 MTH from 1990 - 2000


Example from the 1984 - 1989 manual..




It even says exactly what air line is what color, what diameter size, and exactly how long, lol.. Color coded to what system they are in..
Looks like the brake chambers can be found for $25-$50 each.. All common stuff..

Reman air compressor $250

[Rickf1985]

Brake chambers for 25-50 bucks? I don't know where they are coming from but I don't think I would want to depend on them.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

How about this one for 10K?  The owner/seller says it only needs a fuel pump.

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/rvs/d/wittmann-1975-silver-eagle-band-tour/6853009336.html

Kev

[fasteddie313]

IDK.. I google search "type 16 brake chamber" and tons of them come up but I would have to actually see one to see if they are the same..


I have had this ine on watch for a while and it is ending in 4 hours.. [size=78%]https://www.ebay.com/itm/223457735807?ul_noapp=true[/size]


Not that I am buying anything anytime soon.. I'm just studying..

[Rickf1985]

How about this one for 10K?  The owner/seller says it only needs a fuel pump.

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/rvs/d/wittmann-1975-silver-eagle-band-tour/6853009336.html

Kev

The problem with tour buses is that they are set up with bunks to sleep many people and house many people. Not really the ideal setup for a motor home. And I am guessing the fuel pump he is talking about is the injection pump, a lift pump is not that much money. An injection pump PLUS installation can be several grand.