1973 D20 440-3 engine replacement

[wvallen]

Hello everyone-


I thought I'd start fresh modern thread on this topic because my forum searches only came up with answers from more than 5 years ago.
A couple of months ago I was taking the D20 Brave out for a test run and the oil pump failed. By the time I could pull it over the motor was singing a new tune.  W%


So, I've been researching crate engines for a swap out as I'd prefer to keep it and not have serious troubles going forward. The motor was already not great before the pump failure and I was toying with the swap idea.


Many questions here and comments are welcome:
What is the best source for rebuilt crate 400-3 motors (S and J has some at a good price but no qualified installers near STL)?
Has anyone replaced them lately?
Should I consider the wild idea of a Cummins diesel (I'd rather not)?
Could I do this myself with a couple of friends? 
Is it worth it (the interior is very original and nice after some upgrades, also new tires, brakes, rubber, lamps, etc)?


Thanks for the advice and discussion!

[tmsnyder]

It looks like you have a lot of room to do work on the RV.  Is that your shed in the photo?


Sorry about your engine problems.


Totally depends on you, what you want to pay, and what you're able to do on your own.  Pulling and rebuilding the old engine is one route.  At least you know it will fit. 


Engine swaps can require a lot of fabrication and the devil is in the details imo.  It could turn into a real long expensive project.

[wvallen]

Yeah, the Brave sits on a horse ranch with lots of space to spread out. Plus the horses help by standing in the way of everything. I was thinking that if I bought a rebuilt crate engine of the same 440-3 flavor (from Jasper or S&J) it wouldn't need fabrication of the mounts, etc. Is this not true? I've not installed a crate engine before, but helped on two swaps in the past (20+ years ago) that required some engineering.

[Rickf1985]

Dave is the guy you need to get hold of for all things Dodge RV related. He would be able to tell you if things like the mounts are the same. If they are not I would suggest going to a complete Chevy driveline with engine and transmission. You could probably get both engine and trans for less than you will pay for a Jasper 440.
Daves site,  http://dave78chieftain.com/

[tmsnyder]

If it were me and I wanted to mess around with all the electronics, I'd look at a 6.0L chevy truck engine, tranny, computer and wiring harness from a junk yard.  A painless harness would make it even easier for a little more $


If it were me and I wanted to go as simple a swap as possible, I'd get a brand new L31 5.7L chevy engine and a rebuilt TH400 and install it with a 4 barrel carb and HEI ignition.   That's about as simple and straightforward a swap as you could imagine, except for of course all the devils in the details.   Right off the top I know you'd need to fabricate mount points on the frame and have a new driveshaft made. 


For the driveshaft you might get lucky and be able to mount the engine forward/backward such that the u-joint at the back of the tranny ends up in the right spot.  Then you should be able to use a u-joint to go from chevy to dodge.


Depending on your friends, but I don't think this is a weekend job, lots of details to figure out with any swap imo.   That's why I would personally pull the engine, open it up and see what you have going on.   Maybe all it needs is to have the crank turned, or a new crank, clean up the block and put it back together with all new bearings and rings, who knows until you crack it open and look?  I'm kind of cheap and lazy though, I'd rather spend my time and money traveling in it than working on it.

[LJ-TJ]

Ok! Well here goes nothing. If you have a 440-3 engine in it all ready. Then all you have to do is pull the engine and bolt the new one in. Is it that easy. YES. How long would it take. Half a day to pull it and half a day to put the new one in. Why can I say that. Cause I did it. After being screwed by a local mechanic. I had so much money in it that it was ether scrap it or do it myself because I couldn't afford pay to have it done again. AND you have to understand I don't know one end of a wrench from another. The guys here are fantastic and I'm sure will hold your hand and talk you through. But if your looking for simple go with what you got. Buy a good 440 and pop it in. For get the diesel way to much trouble and you'll end up scraping the Bago. Hm? D:oH!  

[legomybago]

Buy another used 440 or have yours rebuilt. That's the easiest/cheapest route. I wouldn't do a swap unless you put a lot of miles on it. If your just a weekend warrior 4-5 times a year, it's not worth the cost.

[wvallen]

Ok! Well here goes nothing. If you have a 440-3 engine in it all ready. Then all you have to do is pull the engine and bolt the new one in. Is it that easy. YES. How long would it take. Half a day to pull it and half a day to put the new one in. Why can I say that. Cause I did it. After being screwed by a local mechanic. I had so much money in it that it was ether scrap it or do it myself because I couldn't afford pay to have it done again. AND you have to understand I don't know one end of a wrench from another. The guys here are fantastic and I'm sure will hold your hand and talk you through. But if your looking for simple go with what you got. Buy a good 440 and pop it in. For get the diesel way to much trouble and you'll end up scraping the Bago. Hm? D:oH!

This is what I'm thinking.  Keep it simple and pull the old out and put a "new" in. Where did you get your replacement? 


Of course, as  @tmsnyder suggested, I'll pull it before I buy and poke around to see if it just needs convincing. I'm a rare weekend warrior with a few trips a year at this point, but I'd love to do a long trip- hence the thought of a full rebuilt with warranty.

[legomybago]

looks great inside!!

[LJ-TJ]

Man that's sweet. Looks just like my 1975 21fter. Defiantly worth replacing the engine. Don't be in a rush. There are some nice 440's out there and once you find one you like it won't take anytime to pull it and replace it Hm? 

[LJ-TJ]

https://akroncanton.craigslist.org/pts/d/hartville-mopar-440-motor-and/6971808748.html  D:oH!

[Blakradish]

By STL, do you meet St. Louis?
If thatââ,¬â,,¢s the case, please share if you find a qualified Mechanic.
Most RV shops wonââ,¬â,,¢t touch mine. Itââ,¬â,,¢s a ââ,¬Ëœ72 D22 with 60K and no major issues. Unless you can plug it into a computer/sensor reader they canââ,¬â,,¢t figure it out.
Iââ,¬â,,¢d love to find a good Dodge guy/girl, and would pay them handsomely to work on my way cool MH.
Thanks.

[wvallen]

By STL, do you meet St. Louis?
If thatââ,¬â,,¢s the case, please share if you find a qualified Mechanic.
Most RV shops wonââ,¬â,,¢t touch mine. Itââ,¬â,,¢s a ââ,¬Ëœ72 D22 with 60K and no major issues. Unless you can plug it into a computer/sensor reader they canââ,¬â,,¢t figure it out.
Iââ,¬â,,¢d love to find a good Dodge guy/girl, and would pay them handsomely to work on my way cool MH.
Thanks.

I had my 73 D20 tuned up and checked over at Stephens Car Care 1993 Hwy Z, Pevely, MO 63070.  Mr Stephens did an amazing job- classic type small business shop and they were reasonable. They're pretty busy, so they're not interested in replacing my 440 with a crate engine. Still looking to find someone in the Saint Louis area. 

[Sweethearts]

If you still need a 440-3...I have one with under 50,000. I took it out in good shape when I installed a 7.3 powerstroke diesel. It is out of a '78 Brave. Has everything on it...even a good transmission. If you want a swap out...let me know.

[pmjolsness]

I saw your post about replacing your 440-3 and I thought I would throw in a suggestion that is probably overlooked a lot. In the 1970's Chrysler used the 400 in almost everything, Cordova's, Newport's, station wagons, etc. They are basically a large bore 383. Same block as the 440 (without the raised deck). They were low compression (like the 440-3), and made a ton of torque. And they used to litter junkyards all over the country. Maybe they're getting scarce how, I don't know. But it might be a low budget, direct bolt in alternative. I'm sure there a folks here that know a lot more about them. I know the 400 had the largest bore of all Mopar B blocks, bigger than the 440. My only question would be with the cylinder wall thickness. I do know that many race engines were built with the 400 block and a 440 crank, giving them 452 inches, so I'm thinking the block wasn't a weak link. Good luck.

[LJ-TJ]

WVallen, KISS Brother Kiss. Just find a regular old 440 in good shape and she's a plug and play. Yep you can get fancy but from what I've seen over the years here. Just keep it simple. The cost will be low and you'll be back on the road before you can say "Tickety  Boo". For God sake stay away from trying to convert to diesel. D:oH!

[Preese]

My D22 has a 400 and a torqueflite 727 and I can vouch for the good torque.  I stepped on it once and got a little rubber chirp and blew off one of the exhaust pipes. It originally had a 318 per the VIN and the motor mounts had been refabricated.  I do not know if a 400 would be a bolt in for a 440.  I had read some mixed reviews for Jaspers but did get some good recommendations so sent it off to them via Oââ,¬â,,¢Reillyââ,¬â,,¢s.  Real happy with the job they did.  Max speed is 65. Getting about 6 mpg but mostly running it around town since the breweries here only have takeout and itââ,¬â,,¢s nice to have on lav on the go.