Flooding cylinder #7 440

Fwdstuck · November 18, 2019, 10:07 PM

Ive got a flooding carburetor issue. This 440 had a 1905 Edelbrock quadrajet on it. Well it was getting harder and harder to start so I decided to rebuild it. Well now it'll flood cylinder #7. Well I been wanting to change the carb out to something newer. So I decided on a edelbrock 1411 cause it close in the cfm of the qaudrajet. Changed out the adapter plate and installed it. Now its doing exactly as the old carburetor, flooding cylinder #7. Its flooding it so badly its adding to my oil level!

tmsnyder · November 19, 2019, 08:41 AM

How high is your fuel pressure at the carburetor?

Rickf1985 · November 19, 2019, 09:57 AM

I have never seen a carburetor flood just one cylinder. And especially when you change to another brand and it still does the same thing in the same cylinder? and even worse a cylinder farthest from the carb. Are you sure it is gasoline and not coolant? Be careful you do not hydrolock that cylinder and bend the rod!

Fwdstuck · November 19, 2019, 03:27 PM

I don't know what the psi is. It has the factory mechanical fuel. This thing ran great when we first brought it home. It got to where it was harder and harder to start cold. So I pulled off the quadrajet and rebuilt it and that when things started going down hill. Sometimes it would start, but only after starting fluid. It would flood and puff black smoke. The primary rods would get stuck on the quadrajet. That was the main I changed carbs. Every time I would pull the carb off and check it out it would get worse on the flooding. I first the flood cylinder when I checked the oil level and it rose a lot. I drained it anf it was running smelled of fuel. So I replaced the fuel pump thinking it was dumping fuel in the chankcase. I just happened to pull out the spark plug in cylinder #7 cause it was closest to me to check if fuel getting to it. IT SURE WAS!!! So I pulled all the plugs out and #7 is the only one its doing on. I read in another forum that all the gas coming from the carb is running down the intake and back to cylinder 7. It's like I have the carb off and holding the fuel line right into the intake.

ClydesdaleKevin · November 19, 2019, 04:40 PM

Would a bad/cracked intake valve allow fuel to dump into just one cylinder?

Kev

Fwdstuck · November 19, 2019, 05:54 PM

I checked that, it has about 130 psi on cylinder #7 and that was with it full of fuel. Probably higher when it's dry.

I had another issue of it leaking around the gasket between the intake and the adapter plate.
There was a little chip on the base plate on the intake, so I put a little jb weld on it and then the gasket and then the adapter and going to let it dry and try again tomorrow.

Rickf1985 · November 19, 2019, 07:33 PM

Quadrajets are known to have a problem with the welsh plugs leaking under the main jets. But you say this is happening with the Edelbrock carburetor also and it is impossible for them to leak into the manifold. Any gas leaking into the manifold will go to more than one cylinder, it will follow the runners to at least four cylinders. Probably towards the rear of the engine since the rear sits lower on most vehicles. Do you have a vacuum line going from the carburetor to the #7 intake runner? Even then with two different carbs I just find this to be too much of a fluke. If the carb is flooding it is going to flood several cylinders. If it is only one cylinder then it is something else.

tmsnyder · November 19, 2019, 08:38 PM

nevermind, already answered, was wondering if it was the fuel pump diaphragm torn.

Did you adjust the carb float level? Make sure that's right.

Also I still think you need to get a pressure read on that pump. Who knows, maybe someone put in an electric one somewhere and it's just blowing thru the mechanical one.

Fwdstuck · November 19, 2019, 10:08 PM

It doesn't have a electric one. Ive traced the fuel line. And the float level was check twice. It does it with the fuel line unhooked and pouring gas manually into the float bowl. Hopefully jb weld will fix that chip in the intake and fix some of the problems. I'll check it out tomorrow after the jb weld drys.

tmsnyder · November 20, 2019, 08:06 AM

Check the pressure just to be sure:

https://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-pump-and-vacuum-tester-62637.html

Rickf1985 · November 20, 2019, 09:53 AM

What carburetor are you currently working with? You should be using the Edelbrock 1411 since it is the most dependable and most adjustable carb out there. There is no way for gas to flood out of that carb without you seeing it coming out of the vent on top. The base gasket will do nothing but cause a vacuum leak which will cause a NO GAS issue! You have other problems here.

I am going to sit by and see where this goes.

ClydesdaleKevin · November 20, 2019, 05:08 PM

How is your coil, distributor cap, and wires? Is it possible cylinder 7 isn't firing and that is why that one cylinder is flooding?

Kev

tmsnyder · November 20, 2019, 05:35 PM

Yeah something weird, like the fuel line is connected to a vacuum port!

Elandan2 · November 20, 2019, 06:47 PM

I'm still thinking coolant, and the fuel is simply not burning and ending up with the coolant in the crankcase. I could be wrong but...

Fwdstuck · November 21, 2019, 12:10 AM

It's the edelbrock 1411. The fuel line is not connected to a vacuum line. Brand new plugs, wires, cap, and rotor button. I don't think any coolant is leaking in the crank case. Cause I've already changed the oil when I realised what happened with the fuel and it wasn't milky. And its 100% fuel coming out of the spark plug hole. I didn't get a chance to work on it today. But hopefully by the weekend I will. I'm keeping the fuel line unhooked and just manually filling the float bowls until I can get this solved.

Fwdstuck · November 21, 2019, 12:17 AM

I think I'm having some kind of a intake issue. I thought about pulling the intake off and resealing it with new gaskets but haven't got to that point yet.

Rickf1985 · November 21, 2019, 08:34 AM

Have you done a compression and leakdown test on the motor? at least on #7 cylinder? How are you manually filling the carb, if by using the vent tube then you are overfilling the bowl since that is not controlled by the floats.

Rickf1985 · November 21, 2019, 08:49 AM

I am going to put this out there and then I am going to leave things alone for a while. I have been a master mechanic for 45 years, I have built engines from econoboxes to 1500 horse racing engines and I can tell you that I have never seen an engine do what you are describing. You have an intake manifold with runners that go to all eight cylinders but you say you are getting enough gas in one cylinder only to flood the cylinder and raise the oil level. I simply do not see how this is possible. If it were all of the cylinders or even the ones in the back where gravity would take the gas I could understand but not one cylinder. And the amount of gas you are talking about would hydrolock a cylinder. There are diagnostic procedures that need to be followed in a certain order to find problems with an engine. If you do not do this in the prescribed order and just keep guessing and jumping around then you are going to waste days or months of time and many hundreds of dollars in parts and possibly even destroy the engine in the process. You switched from one type of carb to a totally different type and brand of carb and you have the same exact problem. That right there tells me the carb is not the problem, look elsewhere. You need to do a compression test and a leakdown test would be a good idea also. This will give you a solid idea of the mechanical condition of the engine and a baseline to work off of. Then check your cam timing. Get the major mechanical systems out of the way first and then look at the intake. Checking the stuff I just mentioned is just time consuming and not expensive and will give you a ton of needed feedback.

Fwdstuck · November 21, 2019, 08:36 PM

Ive done a compression test and all 8 cylinders. 1 to 7 are around 135 psi and cylinder 8 is around 100. When I installed new plug wires I replaced them one at a time so I wouldn't get them mixed up. Well I decide to check my plug wiring to make sure they where right and couple of plugs where wrong. this was about a week ago. I guess I should of mentioned it earlier. I did alittle backfiring through the carb but does not do it know after the plug wire change. Whats weird is it ran fine with wrong plug setup , but started giving problems before I switched the plug wires.

Well another thing is I thought the starter was on it's last legs. It was making a clunk sound and stopping the starter dead in it's tracks. Starter would start to get hot and bog down. So installed a new starter today. Well guess what?

It does that same thing with the new starter. Seems like when the cylinders are dry and the starter is cooled down it turns over great. I have the fuel pump unhooked (afraid of flooding the 7 cylinder) and spraying a little starter fluid down the carb. It will try and start for a second and then makes the clucking sound and stops the starter dead in it's tracks until it gets the starter hot and then starts to bog down. Ive never seen anything like this in my life!!!!

I'll post of a video of it doing it if I can.

Fwdstuck · November 21, 2019, 08:59 PM

I posted it on youtube
here's the link:

https://youtu.be/sJxEN-7uCdI

Rickf1985 · November 22, 2019, 09:22 AM

Do NOT keep trying that or you are going to break something. That is a timing issue. Go over your firing order again, I had a 440 six pack come into my shop one time that was set up with a Ford firing order and it ran pretty good, once set up correctly it was scary! If the firing order is correct and you have not moved the distributor then I would suspect the timing chain. Take the distributor cap off and number one plug out tap the engine over until the number one gets compression and then bring the timing mark up to TDC. See if your rotor is lined up with number one on the cap. If not then the chain has skipped. What I am seeing there is definitely sounding like advanced timing.

Rickf1985 · November 22, 2019, 09:40 AM

The firing order is 18436572 counter clock wise on the distributor. A lot of the times people will get the direction wrong and put it clockwise.

Fwdstuck · November 22, 2019, 12:54 PM

I've checked the spark plug wiring diagram many times and it is correct with it counterclockwise. I don't remember what plug wires where off when I changed wires to new ones. I wished I wrote it down. It might of was done on purpose to compensate for the time being off. Because it would run before change. That's when is was flooding black smoke.

Fwdstuck · November 22, 2019, 01:20 PM

Another thing is it was making that noise with the coil unhooked. Seems like that is telling me 100% timing chain.

Rickf1985 · November 22, 2019, 02:09 PM

If it is doing that with the coil unhooked then it is hydrolocking! THAT will bend a rod or break a piston! With the coil unhooked there is no spark so nothing to try to push back against the piston. Timing chain would not do that. Take the cap off and set number one on TDC and make sure you are actually hitting on the post, if not then set the distributor by eye so that it is close and try it there. If the timing chain is gone you will know it pretty quick.If you have someone available to turn the crank with a wrench you could watch the rotor as they turn one way and then have them start to turn the other way and note how far the crank turns before the rotor starts to move. It should be pretty much no play.