73 Winnebago, 440 Engine, new electronic ignition wiring help needed

[73WinnieIndian]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8387/questionsanswers/
My husband put this new electronic ignition in the RV. Hooked up the msd Blaster Ingnition coil that came with it.

Forgive me if all my technical information is not 100%. I'm not a mechanic, but I am a very driven Motorhoe owner that wants this thing running. My husband Johnny got most of the engine rebuilt even after his mechanic friend moved away mid project. So now we are stuck with this part and a few other issues.

So he put this electronic ignition in and there are extra wires.
Watching the video from the manufacturer, it shows a wire on each side of the msd blaster and one grounding wire.
We have extra wires. I will post a picture below.

[73WinnieIndian]

The blaster looks to be hooked up properly.

[73WinnieIndian]

Stock it was electronic ignition control unit. with the ballast resister and voltage regulator. So Johnny (husband) wasn't sure if he needed the ballast resistor or not. He is unsure of the wiring. The engine did turn over, but would stall.   

From reading all the older posts......one suggesting a good carb. mechanic to adjust the carb timing. Yet Johnny isn't sure about the wiring still.

So if anyone can look at this and let me know if it looks right or even if it is what the heck are you doing? I just want this project moving forward.

Let me know if you need more pictures or more information. I really, really want this baby running.

If all I need is a mechanic to adjust the carb, then I will find someone to do that.  Thanks, Deb

[tmsnyder]

I have not used one of these, but from the look of the installation instructions, Figure 10 on Page 6 here:  https://documents.holley.com/8387.pdf


It seems very simple to connect.


Looks like the orange wire from the distributor needs to go to the '-' terminal on the coil . That should be the only wire on that terminal. 


The red wire from the distributor goes to the '+' terminal on the coil, and +12V from the ignition switch is also connected to the '+' terminal on the coil.   So just two wires on that terminal.  The diagram shows no ballast resistor on the 12V wire.


The black wire on the distributor goes to the engine ground. 


There is also a grey wire for tach output which you may or may not use.  That should be the only 'extra' wire you have, the other three are necessary and need to be connected correctly.


Hope this helps, good luck!

[73WinnieIndian]

Thank you. I looked at the diagram and it looked fine to me.  I just talked to my Dad who was helping him and he was a lot more helpful. He said this wiring for this was fine.

Also adjusting the carb. My Dad corrected my "carb timing" that I wrote out incorrect terminology.  i??

I don't know, this is not my thing. I'm just trying to get it done and everyone here has been amazing with things that are my department. Leaks and interior stuff. So now trying to get the engine working.

[Rickf1985]

Does it start and then stall as soon as you let of of the starter? If so then you are using the wrong wire to feed the coil. You need the 12 volt wire that went to the ballast resistor and was hot all the time when the key is on to go to the coil positive  where you have the red wire. Just check the wire you have on there now and see if it has 12 volts after you stop cranking the engine but with the key on. And your descriptions are just fine,if we have any questions we will ask for clarification and give you the options we are looking for.

[LJ-TJ]

Hey Deb your doing a fine job. Shoot by the time we're done with you you'll know more about this rig than your Dad or sweetie pie do togethar. .

[73WinnieIndian]

Thanks for the response.
Okay, well now I'm getting a different story from my Dad. He said the ignition ran after they removed the Balast. I will have Johnny double check the wires though, to make sure that is right.

My Dad said that they poured gas into the carb.

They put the tube in a gas can. He said they held the gas can up higher than the fuel pump and it didn't seem like the fuel pump was pumping the gas. The electric fuel pump is brand new. So it should be good. Key word there is "should"

My Dad also said he couldn't push the fuel pump arm. Which he thought was weird. So  i??
The fuel pump is not getting fuel.  Hm?
Now I've been reading the posts in the forum and did read that someone said to use a pump to get the gas into the fuel filter and also stated that you should not have to do this. Yet, that worked for them.
We also saved the older parts taken out.

Hoping the rain breaks this weekend so this can get done. Johnny is going to start hiding in the garage from me. 

[73WinnieIndian]

I really appreciate you all. You have my confidence up and I'm on it.

I was ready to cry earlier because I am so frustrated with my Winnebago brick in the yard. She's been sitting for 5 yrs now. Just frustrated and I want it running. We had one before and I loved it and this one we have never taken it out yet. My Granddaughters want to go camping and we always took their Daddy and Uncle camping and now she wants to go. They can do a tent, I can't. I get cold and I can't get warm. I have an illness and I just can't do tent camping and shouldn't have to. I have this Winnie just begging to hit the road.

[LJ-TJ]

Hey kiddo, Don't feel bad. I can't tent either thats why we bought a Winnebago. When I get cold and damp it goes right to my bones. I can't get warm for hours or till I have a hot shower. Shoot we'll have you up and running in no time.

[tmsnyder]

You don't have to make any excuse to not sleep in a tent, this is an RV group, none of us want to tent camp!


It's entirely possible that you need a new engine mounted mechanical fuel pump. You should be able to push that lever arm in and move it with some force.  And it should spring back. They are so inexpensive, I would just replace it with a new one which should be ethanol resistant.   If you are able to wait a week or so for it to arrive, RockAuto is about the lowest price possible.   Just make sure you order the right one, I have so many parts laying around where I missed their 30 day return window.  The old pump probably isn't ethanol resistant, and when the rubber lets go you can end up filling the crankcase with fuel, which can lead to motor work if you spin a bearing.



Fuel is so critical.  The best, safest route is to drop the tank and replace all the rubber lines with ethanol resistant lines like Gates Barricade.   Open the tank and look inside, if it's clean use it. If rusty take it to a radiator shop and have them boil it out and coat it with a tank liner.  I just fought with this problem this summer, ended up having them boiled out, did two tanks and they were about $150 each.  Some places call it pickling the tank, or boiling it out.  Basically they are soaking it in hydrochloric acid / muriatic acid.


Check the lift pump to verify if you are actually getting 12V at the pump. 

[73WinnieIndian]

Okay, Thanks.
Johnny put a brand new fuel pump on it. I think we just ran to the auto part store for that. It has been way too long to return it.

It might just be a bad pump. I'll check out rock auto or even locally to see if I can get it.

I guess they got the old pump and tried it too and it was the same way.

We will just try a new fuel pump and see what happens. Maybe we just got a bad part.  i??
Thanks.

[Elandan2]

You are probably aware of it, but the fuel pump on a 440 runs on a pushrod. You have to make sure that rod is pushed fully into the block when inserting the fuel pump, other wise it won't work. A good trick for that is putting a glob of grease on the end to hold it in place whilst installing the pump. 

[73WinnieIndian]

Oh, now Johnny said he didn't try the old pump. Just the new one and it was working before, but now it is not.  It was sitting for some time in between tries.

On a side note I scored a roof vent for $19 on Amazon. The old one was all cracked when I went up to make sure everything was good for the rain. I had to put a box over it with a trash bag and duct tape. Nothing is leaking and it's raining hard, so I did a good job on that.     I couldn't figure out what the white stuff was in the yard. It was that roof vent cracking and blowing down.

[73WinnieIndian]

Elandan2,  I'll let them know that. Just read that on another fuel pump post.  Was it bearing grease? Going by memory here.

[73WinnieIndian]

Johnny said he greased it and he held it in. So I think we are back to a bad fuel pump.

[73WinnieIndian]

Okay, so Johnny went to work and I'm stuck a bit.  When ordering a new fuel pump with auto parts place.......feeling stumped a bit. 

73 Dodge 440, but it is asking for the type of dodge and Winnebago is not on the list so what do I put on there to pull up the right one?

[73WinnieIndian]

I worked some coupons and got a Spectra Premium Mechanical Fuel Pump for $18.18 out the door. SP1114MP (Hoping it is the right part)   I also called Auto Zone and they have a similar part number by Spectra A1073MP  for $32.99 in stock so either way Johnny should be able to get this new starter in this weekend.

[BamBam]

You are probably aware of it, but the fuel pump on a 440 runs on a pushrod. You have to make sure that rod is pushed fully into the block when inserting the fuel pump, other wise it won't work. A good trick for that is putting a glob of grease on the end to hold it in place whilst installing the pump.

This right here! How many miles you got on this beast? If your pump push rod is worn, you will not have enough lift on the pump to get the gas flowing! 1/8" shorter rod will cause major problems. Good Luck

[73WinnieIndian]

BamBam, it was a brand new fuel pump and it was working before when Johnny first installed it. He put the grease on it and got it on right.  Then the last time he went to start it, it wasn't pumping.  I'm going to get the new pump and see if that fixes it. Luckily, it isn't an expensive part.

We towed this RV home and haven't even used it yet.      We did drive it around the area before buying it, but that is it.  Towed it home and then pulled the engine to rebuilt it.

I'll let you all know how the new starter works.

Fingers crossed and prayers said. Hoping that does it and then we can move on to the other projects in it.

At least it would run and be shelter for this trip. The air and heat work. I plugged it in and had a few lights out in the domes.

[Rickf1985]

Have you checked all of the fuel lines from the pump back to the tank? A crack in a fuel line, common in old rubber lines, can cause the pump to suck air and even though it is working it will not pull gas from the tank.

[73WinnieIndian]

Well, it started raining and heââ,¬â,,¢s working on it.  The push rod looks worn kinda weird.

Going to get some new hoses in case it is that too.

[Rickf1985]

It is the ends that are of concern and they look ok. If the end wears down where it rides on the cam then both the rod and the cam are going to be bad.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Back to the original question,
As shown in this picture, there are 2 wires coming from the ignition switch



The I2 lead only has voltage to it when the ignition switch is in the START position in order to bypass the ballast resistor.

The I1 lead has voltage to it in both START and RUN.  Your new MSD distributor must be connected to the I1 lead for it to work.

Dave

[Rickf1985]

That is what I was referring to about 20 posts back but Daves pictures make it a lot easier to understand.