Coach wiring problems.

[Mlw]

Today my fears were confirmed. The owner ruined the coach wiring as well he cut all kind of wires and left them exposed lying around with the transformer, 220 volt connections etc. That really is something you want, your 220 volt live connecting to your 12 volt ground wiring.



I really don't like to say this lightly but the man was and probably still is is a  moron with not one but a hundred angels on his shoulder. I think today I've found the 6th way he could have burned the whole RV down.

This said I'm not particularly impressed with Winnebago's idea of safety as well, because a transformer, 220 (or 120) volt installation and a 12 volt installation together in one cabinet with the city water connection, all the waterlines and couplings running next to the complete electrical system so you can be 100% sure your electrical system will get soaked if one of the waterlines disconnect or was to burst is in my opinion not exactly a well figured out strategy, certainly when Winnebago states in it's own manuals that you should use a pressure regulator when using the city water connection because when you don't there is a chance that the waterline breaks free. Now that's something you want happening when your 220 volt installation is connected.

So sorry I'm not in the best of moods today fellows. I do have two question do. Did anybody ever measure the voltage output of the transformer. Mine is around 10 volts which explains why my lights are burning a bid dim on 220 volts. On the other hand I do think here's also some handywork involved of the former owner because the colorcoding again isn't correct.

The feed for the whole coach from the battery seems to be the original 0.12 inch wire? This needs to be addressed also because fading lights the more you switch on or a big powerdrop when i switch on the extractor hood will not do.


And a question for Mark (Oz)  Does the following coach manual also include a wiring diagram from the coach system, because I REALLY going to need it as i did with the Chassis wiring.

https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=store;sa=view;id=193

[Oz]

There are no known detailed schematics for the 60s-70s coaches. Only very basic, draft diagrams of the main wiring route locations. If you contact Winnebago, they will send you the exact same ones we have here. 

[Mlw]

That probably would be none then  Just my luck.

I looked at the 77 model coach wiring and there seem to be a lot in common with mine.

I just needed it so I can see what the former owner has ruined this time. I've seen it a lot in the years I worked for a sailingboat broker and it it certainly not the first time I'm left repairing their handywork.

Oh well, just need to plow on. But my original plan of going on a trip next spring definitely went down the tubes.

Luckily Dave Chieftain has the power station manuals on his site. At least the wiring from the powerstation is discribed in this manual.

[Mlw]

and another fear finally came. Just before i was to leave the rv for the day I brushed the wiring harness to the back of the RV heard a big "tack" because a major Short circuit started completely burning out the wire to read out my coach battery from the overhead unit in the cabin.

The reason: the wire was connected to the battery without a fuse by the former idiot. Reason n0 7 how he could have burned the RV down. Hence also the reason why I really don't like the Chassis ground method.

What happened was that the wireharness was damaged because it was hanging over a sharp iron edge cutting the isolation.

Pictures will follow, as the place where my RV is parked was closing and I of course rather disconnect my battery than take pictures.

Oh well, rather now than on the road 

[Eyez Open]

I feel your pain...well maybe not feel but understand it. While i have not engaged with the electrical system in regards to ac/dc power distribution just looking at it makes me cringe. I have had a few skirmishes with the wiring under the dash...it can be nasty stuff. I told myself its simple 12v distribution if i dont like something it is just gone,rewired and done.

I am just now finishing the engine and what an engineering nightmare. They had many people staying up at night figuring out how to make that emission control system work...a total abortion comes to mind. But I am armchair quarterbacking here and somewhat opinionated. The last stop on the engine is some kind of solenoid system the starting system...it will be cut out and a simple starting circuit will be restored...If that disables something downstream it will be restored...after all 12v dc is not complicated...

Best Luck
Beaverton Buthcher..... W%

[Mlw]

Hey Beaverton.

=I'm going to do exactly what you said. Yank the nasty stuff out, put new in.

I was just hoping that I could wait till prices got a little normal again, but this was a rude awakening and it's not worth to burn the RV down to save $50,=, but wiring, fuses and fuse holders are costing a fortune at the moment here in Europe.

First thing to install next week is a cutoff switch. There is one in the chassis wiring, but not in the coach wiring. Next to that open up all the cable holders and see what damage is done.

As for your engine pains, that will be my next step. So all the best of luck to you too and thanks for the heads up 

[Mlw]

This week I had some other obligations so unfortunately not much time for Betsy.

Underneath the reason why they invented fuses. Never run wires without it unless you are 100% sure the wire can't short circuit.




I replaced the wire with a new one. Running the wire thru the chassis and cable hoses learned that the former idiot did a lot of damage to the wiring underneath the coach as well. Best thing really would be to replace the intire wiring harness of the RV, as a lot of wires are corroded as well, but you really just can't believe the prices for wiring at the moment.

it's pretty discouraging spending so much money on something you hoped was OK,

[Oz]

I totally get what you're saying.  That's a real heartbreaker right there. But I must say, you're handling it in good stride!

[Mlw]

Ok, as I really am done with the former idiots handywork I decided to invest $450 in a new smart charger, Battery-splitter wiring and connectors.

https://www.victronenergy.com/chargers/blue-smart-ip22-charger
https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-isolators-and-combiners/argo-diode-battery-isolators

As there is no known Wiring diagram, its quite a puzzle figuring out how everything is connected. As said, I'm not a real electrician, but by thinking logically and using my trusty multimeter I came far.

I puled new wires directly from the battery to the cabinet and new wires from the charger to the batteries. As soon as I've done that the old Transformer and relay switch will not be necessary anymore. I'm thinking about using the Relay for the generator as power from it comes by plugging in the power cord in the extention cord from the generator. It would be nice starting the generator from the overhead unit from the drivers seat and then connecting it to the AC system by activating the Dual switch. But first I have to be absolutely sure I can use the ports from the relay for AC or buy one that's suitable for it.

I hoped to be finished at the end of the day, but my old Blue Friends from twilightzone must have had a lot of new employees because I spend half the day looking for everything and lost my hammer not to be found again. Since I've seen the episode way back in the eighties and probably spend days looking for something since that time I'm totally convinced  the story must be true.   Hm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9XFRfeGBVI

[Mlw]

So today I hoped to end What I started and ripped out the converter and attribute's.



What a job. Not only did I had to figure out the former idiots handywork but the trashy way of working by the Winnebago's builders as well.

How's that? Well, Take the manual of my powerconverter for example. It says  WHITE wires are for Ground, Red are the 12v feeds and blue the individual loads from the fuses

Reality: White are the individual loads
Blue wires: not there
Green: Ground/Neutral.

It goes also against the Chassis wiring where white is indeed neutral/ground. It's just '70s logic i guess


I also still can't understand where, the system gets it's neutral from, On the bottom of the 12 volt powerpanel there is a point where WHITE wires get together and yes the green wires connected to this do give neutral/ground but it drives me absolutely bonkers were the connection point of the white wires get it's neutral from and I'm clearly missing something here.

As it is, I've changed the Electrical area from this:



To this:




Extracted from the coach electrical system

Converter + atributes and relay,


Coverter wiring from the powerstation

[Mlw]

So today and yesterday I refined my work at the electronics. but as it is frigging cold in the Netherlands (39 F.) right now progress is slow

I've connected the new feeding lines for the coach electronics, Connected the Cut off switch and Reinstalled the converter wiring as I found out that there are also a few neutral wires on this connector. now finally my lights don't dim anymore the more you switch on 



As the cold really got to me I told myself It really was time to investigate why the furnace wasn't working correctly. (altough there is also a problem with the LG connection that needs to be addressed) The culprit was swiftly found.

How idiots connect their wiring

Sorry for the bad English and the f-bomb, but you would not believe how angry i was at the former idiot. That was me in the video being sarcastic, incredibly angry and very cold 

[Oz]

I have no words...

[Mlw]

This man had/has not one but a hundred guardian angels

Just when you thought you seen it all, there is another suprise waiting. Like I said it's ... unbelievable.

Sorry for the strong language 


And then LJ--TJ send this:
https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=16322.msg100149#msg100149

It's a good thing i have cutoff switches in both chassis and coach now or else I wouldn't sleep another minute anymore 

[Mlw]

IS there anybody out there who can tell me where the fuses are for in the underneath picture They are in the Battery compartment.



I know the one above, next to the solenoid is for my volt meter in the overhead compartment. The one in the lower row to the left is for the fridge.

But the other two, I just can't seem to find their use. I've disconnected the wires from it, but everything seems to work. The only thing I still haven't tested on the RV is the Generator. But I first want to make absolutely sure all wiring is OK before I'm going to play with it.


I thought one was for the furnace as it was not connected to the fuseboard in the RV as it should. There is still a wire running from  fuse 4, actually indexed Furnace, but where it goes to, god only knows. It's not the furnace.

So as the current wiring to the heater caused the nasty surprise in the last video,  I cleared it away, to find it suddenly disappearing in the wiring harness exactly behind the left dualy's. The former idiot is doing a great job in driving me absolutely bonkers.

On the positive side, the furnace is now rewired and reattached to the correct fuse of the power station inside.

I just really don't feel the desire to go and lie underneath the RV in the cold because the fuse of my Furnace burned out. 

[Daenrico41]

Yeah that's crazy what people can do .. yours like mine was very dangerous for fire ..  I'm in the same boat .. try to find all the wiring destinations but in the CONSOle .. and believe me that's worst than working on small systems  like the charger . When I've buy no one of the gauges was working .. now i know . Im glad to have find that mess before it was too late .

[Mlw]

oh, you mean this?:

https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=16254.msg99754#msg99754

I've done it all, and still finding things that I call out in desperation: What the  have you done this time???

I'm already very famous at the Hobbygarage for cursing and shouting  but I'm forgiven for it as everybody knows what I'm facing.

But you have to appreciate the small things in life. We are not the first experiencing this and certainly won't be the last, and we can tell very proudly later, I DID THIS!  Plus the very large advantage that when something does happen when we are on the road, we will know our RV from top to bottom. I guess we will even be laughing about it some day  W%

Do you have a Wiring Diagram? It helped me big time.