Hot water supply / hot water tank / hot water tank bypass / toilet (questions)

[70winnie]

Sent: 5/7/2005

I purged the antifreeze from my Winnie this week and tested the fresh water system.  Last fall, I installed a new Sureflo pump, but didn't get a chance to use it.  I still haven't reconnected my LP gas lines, and so I'm unable to heat water in the hot water tank at the moment.  I'm do, however, notice two quirks in the way the hot water lines are working, and hope maybe you folks can confirm or deny my suspicions:

(1) When I divert the water through the hot-tank bypass, the pressure and volume of water I get when I open a "hot" water valve is notably lower than when I open a cold water valve.  Is this because the hose for the bypass is so much smaller than the main water lines?

(2) When I redirect the water out of the bypass and into the hot water tank, the pump runs for a very short while (doesn't seem like enough time to completely fill the tank, but I could be wrong) and then stops.  If I open a "hot" water valve at the faucet, I get a short burst of water, and then nothing.  Does the hot water tank only allow water to leave once it's been heated?  Seems to me that water should flow into the bottom of the tank and then out the top as long as there is a valve open, regardless of whether it's been sufficiently heated.  But what do I know?  LOL

Oh, in other (bad) news, when I hooked up my La Toilette to the fresh water line, water came spraying out the back of the toilet, at the top near the seat.  I assume there's either a crack in the plastic, or a seal needs to be replaced.  I'll have to remove the toilet to find out, but I don't want to do that just now because my black tank isn't empty.  Meanwhile, I've disconnected the water from the toilet; looks like I'll have to continue pouring water in the bowl manually as I've been doing all winter.

[jsn80]

Sent: 5/7/2005

Hello 70,

I don't know much about the water hear, but to answer your first question, smaller tubing will reduce the flow of water.  Also, the more fittings and valves you have the more restrictions there will be.  When you go to re-plumb your Winnie, try to use as few fittings as possible and run all lines with the same size pipe.  Of course, in all actuality, water lines in a Winnebago might not be long enough to make all that much of difference.

Jeremy

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Sent: 5/7/2005

I can see a lower volume of water due to smaller cross-connect piping however when flowing through the hot water tank the flow should be the same as the cold water faucet.  I suspect you have not got the valve lineup correct.  My bet is that when you have it set for bypass you are actually putting water in the tank even though it cannot escape.  When you set it for normal flow through the tank, what little water that did get in there is pushed out from the residual pressure in the tank.  If memory serves me right,  a bypass setup has one valve on the outlet, one on the inlet and one in the cross-connect line.  You close the outlet and inlet and open the cross connect for winterization.  You close the cross-connect and open the outlet and inlet for normal operation.  Sounds like for winterization you are closing the outlet and opening the inlet and cross-connect (tank would be pressurized this way).  For normal operation, you closing the inlet and cross connect and opening the outlet.  The residual pressure would force any water out until the residual pressure was depleted.
La Toilette - There is a hose that goes up to the bowl rim that allows water to be swirled around the bowl.  Sounds like the hose has come loose or the thingy it attaches to has a problem.  I had a leaking thingy (hose attachment) up there I had to repair with plastic epoxy when I restored mine.

Dave

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Sent: 5/7/2005

Good information to know!  I replaced my pump and hoses coming from the pump, but haven't tested the hot water tank because I haven't filled my newly refurbish propane tank/lines yet, and I also haven't reinstalled the toilet yet, so I have an "open" in the bathroom.

I'll keep this thread in mind once I get some propane and the bathroom is finished.

Before I pulled the shower pan and toilet, I tested the water system, and didn't have any leaks anywhere (except the sewer holding tank...lol), but I didn't bother testing for a pressure differential between the hot and cold valves....at least, I don't remember a difference.  The Ark has an almost new Atwood hot water heater, so I'll check the valves before I fire it up.

Kev and Patti Smith

[70winnie]

Sent: 5/7/2005

Jer, thanks for the advice.  I did try to use as few fittings as possible.  I also tried to minimize the amount of tubing between the hot tank and the faucets, so as to waste as little hot water as possible.  There is only one "unnecessary" fitting that I know of, because I ended up with a tube that was a few inches too short and didn't have a long enough piece to replace the entire thing.

Dave, I think you might be right although my "testing" tells me otherwise.  My bypass kit setup doesn't have three valves, but two diverters connected by a short flexible hose.  I hooked up each diverter to my home laundry faucet to test the water flow in every possible direction, drew arrows right on the diverters themselves, and when I attached them to the hot tank, it STILL didn't seem to work correctly.  The top diverter, especially, seems to be problematic.  No matter how I attach it, no matter how I throw it, something seems off!

I have half a mind to completely remove the bypass kit and install three separate valves.  At least *then* I will know for sure how water is flowing!  I just hate to "throw away" the bypass kit (which cost nearly $30) and pay for three new stop valves and additional fittings.

Thanks also for the advice about La Toilette... it will be great if fixing the problem requires nothing more than re-attaching a hose that has been disconnected.  Wish me luck!

[mightybooboo]

Sent: 5/7/2005

The toilet has an anti reflux valve that the water hooks to,yours might be loose(hose),or the valve may not be seating properly under pressure.It has a little panel under the toilet seat in back and 2 Phillips screws to remove panel.On my thetford?,you had to buy the whole valve,about 35 bucks,and unfortunately all it needs is a repair kit no longer made.A good RV supply can look it up in a book and order it for you with the model number,or their book shows pictures.I took my rv to them,they looked at it and ordered the part.

BooBoo

[mightybooboo]

Sent: 5/7/2005

I know they told me the truth on the 3 dollar repair kit too,I was in the office as they called the manufacturer and ordered the part.Repair kit no longer made.

BooBoo

[salplmb]

Sent: 5/8/2005

hi guys,
if when you turn on the hot water and get a blast then nothing dose the pump come back on? if you are draining your tank to winterize that is why you have the bypass to save on the antifreeze. when the tank drains and then you go to fill it back up the tank will hold air pressure and the pump will turn off when the proper psi is reached. you need to let the air out by leaving the faucets open til water runs out. if you forget to do this and try to light your hot water heater you can ruin your heater very quickly.
sal

[70winnie]

Sent: 5/8/2005

thanks booboo and sal, i;ll look into those.

[Slantsixness]

Sent: 5/10/2005

my whole system drains at one low point under the sink, with access by removing the lowest drawer... The bypass on mine is simply to open the bypass valve, turn on the hot water at a sink (for flow) and close the cold main and open the drain. Filling the whole system with antifreeze is done by simply connecting a hose to the shurflo pump inlet and running water until the red antifreeze appears in both hot and cold lines (my pex is mostly transparent and turns pink!). Pretty simple, but my water heater bypass is the same 1/2" PEX pipe used throughout the winnie (with the copper crimp-on fittings, not the gray squeaky fittings) I do not leave any water in the water heater tank, but I'm sure a little of the antifreeze gets in it anyway, not a big deal at all to flush it out, either when the season starts...

It works really well and the shurflo keeps up with both hot and cold running at the same time with little or no pressure degradation, although a pressure accumulator might help if you do have volume related pressure problems. I  figure, "it's a big giant camper, not a condominium", so why bother with a little pressure drop here and there, you still got water, right?!

As far as draining the water heater tank, to be sure it drains completely, I mounted the main drain valve below the cold water inlet, so once the hot is done, open the cold and Viola...dry water heater tank!

My fresh water tank is plastic (new) and has a low mounted drain 1/2"NPT fitting that just goes into a valve mounted through the floor. I can connect it to another hose outside if needed to drain away or into a dump station.