Replacing 30lb LP Gas Tanks with 20lb LP Grill tanks

[Bh19712]

Sent: 7/12/2007

Hello all.  My wife and I were members of the old site before it moved here.  We're finally able to come back to RVing after a long time away.  We've had a 76 Brave for quite some time now and have to replace the LP tanks.  On this model the tanks are horizontally mounted standard 30# lp tanks.  Can a standard 20# gas grill style tank work?  I know the 20# and 30# tanks are designed to be mounted vertically, but ours came from the factory with a horizontal setup.

Thanks,
Brian 

[Bh19712]

From: Bh19712

There is a small door towards the rear of the coach, that's the LP tank door.  It's actually as small as it looks in the pic.  It's barely big enough to slide in a tank horizontally.   I'll try to attach a picture tonight of our tank setup.  Only way to convert it to vertical tanks would be to remove the small storage compartment below, and create a custom cutout and door.

[Slantsixness]

Sent: 7/14/2007

One note in particular:
This discussion is about Horizontally mounted 30# propane tanks, that look just like the 15,20 and 30# vertical tanks, and they're NOT (anymore).

If you want to use 15 or 20 # verticle tanks to replace your original VERTICAL tanks, Go right ahead.. they will even clamp into the original straps for the 30# tanks. You don't even have to prop them up on wood to make them taller... 99% of the time the hoses from the switching regulator are plenty long enough, and the original non-OPD fittings will still screw right into the OPD valves. (if you have the O rings on the ends of the gas nipples, replace them.)

They are smaller than the original tanks (which are still available in an OPD version too) but for occasional camping, you'll never run out of propane with two BBQ geille Blue Rhino exchange tanks. I have two of them myself, and have never run out of propane in 3 or 4 week long camping trips. Of course, when I finally did run out (because I use one of them for my gas grille at home!), I found a full 30# tank in Sparebago, so that's in there now, and will be until it ever runs out of propane.... it was never used, the PO of Sparebago (before John got it) didn't know the regulator had a control switch! the seal on the tank had never been broken.... so... I can say that 34 year old propane still burns, and no differently than brand new propane!

All right.. if I continue this much longer... people will think I have a gas problem....

Tom  

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Sent: 7/16/2007

I know this is going to sound condescending, but its not intended that way, and please forgive me rather than being upset.

You mention horizontal TANKS.

Horizontal tanks were always a single tank...not plural

Horizontal means aligned with the horizon...from left to right, or the converse.

Vertical means standing upright, like a bbq grill tank.

Kev  

[Bh19712]

Sent: 7/16/2007

Is there a safe way to ensure that the tank is completely empty so I can sand and paint it?

Thanks. 

[Lefty]

Sent: 7/16/2007

I know this is going to sound condescending, but its not intended that way, and please forgive me rather than being upset.

Horizontal tanks were always a single tank...not plural

Horizontal means aligned with the horizon...from left to right, or the converse.

Vertical means standing upright, like a bbq grill tank.

Kev

Hmmm... I guess the two original tanks laying in the bay of mine on their sides were a fluke then.
Not all Winnies came with single tanks. Mine came with two identical 40lb. tanks, and they lay down on thier sides & slide in. They are held in place by a T-shaped bracket, and have an automatic regulator that switches when one gets empty (And yes, it's original too.)
Have not updated to the newer style tanks yet, but will have to eventually. It's getting harder to get them filled without the DOT sticker. I've managed so far by using local suppliers who don't care what you bring them to fill, as long as you also bring cash...

As for a difference in upright vs. horizontal tanks, It is my understanding that they are not interchangeable.

One possible explanation for the extra large tanks fitted to mine could be the fact that mine is a D27MI, which were incomplete motorhomes that were designed to be outfitted as commercial vehicles (mobile offices, book mobiles, etc...) I have found several small differences in the way mine was equipped vs. a standard Winne. Perhaps it was because of the intended commercial use.

[Oz]

Sent: 7/16/2007

It appears there were rare exceptions to Kevin's observation.  I pulled two of them, 30lb, laying horizontally in a molded plastic housing, valves facing the side of the rig, in an side access compartment quite similar to other rigs, from a '70s Minnie, non-Winnebago make, at the Magic Junkyard.  (Can you handle all the commas?)  They were both full and in good condition.  The valves are mounted dead center and perhaps were uprights mounted horizontally, if the description of horizontal tanks is true, but they fit the molded housing perfectly with no modifications made to the existing lines.   I've been using them in my rig, upright.

- Sob

[Rayd]

Sent: 7/17/2007

Horizontal tanks are designed for applications that move around, e.g., forklifts. Vertical tanks are designed for stationary use, e.g., barbecues.

I believe the vapor tube outlet is orientated differently in each type, and if used in its non proper position liquid propane and not vapor will enter your system. (Read, Very Dangerous)
I think the regulator is the same for both types. BIANHH (but I an not Hank Hill)

Methinks Sob found a MiniWhatever on its side. Smiley

my Tip Of The Day:
As OPD valves get older and break (float breaks off) and as more companies make cheaper ones to fill the consumer demand for these valves,
pay heed to the person filling the propane tank. The re-fillers are getting used to the auto shut off and relying on the valve to tell them when the tank is full. A defective valve will allow more (much more) than the recommended 80% of capacity.

[Slantsixness]

Sent: 7/17/2007

Horizontally mounted tanks are the same..."looking" as your vertical tanks... there are "permanently mounted" horizontal tanks, that ARE not made to be removed, or lock anything like the transportable/removable types (vertical or horizontal).

Horizontal tanks work vertically, however the tube is in fac oriented differently. The trick to horizontal tanks is the orientation of the valve ant tube assembly: nut if you use the horizontal tanks vertically, there is no danger. It's only a slim chance when you use the vertical tanks horizontally that it's "possible" for the propane to be expelled as a liquid. What happens if it does? Usually nothing, the regulators on all the propane appliances have a small enough inlet (propane expands into a gas when not under pressure, unless you live in Antarctica or in the Andes mountains maybe...), that it would turn back into a gas before ever being expelled into the appliance.

And I by no means am a propane authority (although I do get gas often).

The horiz tanks "should" have the proper valve and tube. the vertical tanks "should" have the proper valve and tube. They are not the same....but I do believe that it would never make a difference any of us could ever notice, nor would it be a threat to safety... Maybe the wrong tank would empty quicker or not empty fully... I think that's about the worst possibility... then again... your regulator fixes that, right?


So yes;
They do in fact exist, and these types we're talking about in particular, are almost always in Pairs in motorhomes of all kinds... and quite a number of 5th wheel and travel trailers too, I might add.


Tom  

[ontheroadagain]

Sent: 7/17/2007

i was surfing the web and came across this site and found the smaller grill looking type of tank is $300-$400 less than the conventional horizontal rv tanks maybe thats why the used that type check it out http://www.folandsales.com/index.asp?category=17194 this site has a better price on replacements if you need to http://protanksupply.com/tanks-443.asp

[Rayd]

Sent: 7/18/2007

“I believe the vapor tube outlet is orientated differently in each type, and if used in its non proper position liquid propane and not vapor will enter your system. (Read, Very Dangerous)”

I urge anyone using their propane tanks in the wrong orientation
to stop it.

A fella named Neon John has had some experience with liquid propane in his regulator, his story is in this thread.

http://yarchive.net/car/rv/propane_explosion.html 

[Bh19712]

Sent: 7/25/2007

I'd like to say thanks to all that responded and for the links. I think refinishing the tank and getting new valves would be the way to go.  Thanks again all.

Brian 

[76minnie]

Not sure if I should be starting a new thread or reviving this one? i??
I have dual 20# horizontally mounted tanks. They are rusted pretty bad. I tried using a vertical 20# tank horizontally. That didn't work out. It froze the regulator because liquid propane was getting into it. I don't trust the old tanks and don't want to deal with the hassle of trying to get the old tanks filled. I am looking to replace them with dual 30# tanks. I talked to 2 different places about buying 2 new 30# vertical tanks and replacing the service valves with these horizontal ones:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/191178176024?nav=SEARCH

1 of the places said that would work fine, the 2nd said it wouldn't work. Anybody know if it would work?
Thanks in advance

[Rickf1985]

Personally I would not play around with mix and match on a propane system. I would bite the bullet and buy the correct horizontal tanks or get your recertified. A vertical tank ,does not have the proper horizontal mounts either.

[76minnie]

Thanks Rick,
I can not find the proper tanks. I would have to rip out the current fiberglass case for the old tanks and build a new propane locker. The ones that came in the MH look exactly like 20# bbq tanks, but they are horizontal tanks. And as far as getting them recertified, the first thing the guy said at propane place was "there is no way, don't waste your time". I tried to post pics, it says they're to large

[Rickf1985]

Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.propanetankstore.com/30-lb-7-5-gallon-manchester-horizontal-propane-tank-with-gauge/

[76minnie]

Yes, that is what I'm going to have to settle for. I'll just have to rebuild the original propane cabinet. The originals don't have mounting legs. They look exactly like normal 20# propane tanks. And they slide snugly into fiberglass chambers. Sucks to go from 40# capacity to 30#. I can't afford 2 of those fancy tanks. Oh well.

[Rickf1985]

These are a bit cheaper and are the same size as what you had.


http://www.propanetankstore.com/20-lb-5-gallon-manchester-horizontal-propane-tank-with-gauge/

[76minnie]

Thanks Rick!
I ended up just ordering 1 30# tank. I would of had to rebuild for those 20#'s anyway. Maybe I'll build it big enough for a second 30# in case I hit the lotto