Hard to find parts: "Master and wheel cylinder (M375/M400 chassis)!

[denisondc]

Malodin:  There are a couple of other parts hard to find: For Winnebagos on the M375 or M400 chassis, having the 413, and from about the year 1972.
1.  The master cylinder!!  If your chassis has the dual Hydrovac boosters mounted to the drivers's side frame rail, then the master cylinder is one that has been scarce.  It is a dual unit of course, the reservoir built in.  The OEM unit carried a casting # of FF-70533.
2.  The rear wheel cylinders for that same chassis have also been hard to find.  There are 4 of them, and they look seemingly identical, and have the same Bendix casting numbers: 301169.   But while they seem identical, the two part numbers used on the M375 & M400 chassis actually amount to units that are mirror images of each other.  It would also be nice to have an easy source for just the rebuild kits - with 1-3/8" diameter cups.
  If you were able to help with info/source on these parts, I think a number of us would be greatly grateful. 

 

[malodin]

i will look into the brake parts.
Just to clarify the master cylinder you are refering to is the one up by the front tire correct?  yes mine has the dual hydravac system that doestn work go figure....


as for the wheel cylinders if all 4 have the same casting numbers it should be the same cylinder however i have not physically had mine off yet so i cannot verify that yet.

These different part numbers are from the same nsn number but by different companies.

you gotta figure chrysler orders them from somewhere(and then marks them up).  i am getting the cable from my local husky dealership this next thursday and have already pulled my cable, i will take it in with me that way if its not the correct one(to short) they can send it back.  however he did send me a photo from an old parts book for ihc motor homes and the 2 ends are identical along with the dust boot etc...so its going to come down to the length of the cable

[malodin]

master cylinder

new: UP 36344
rebuilt: TS 108018

This is another IHC part. 

[malodin]

for the wheel cyinders what i am finding is the same casting number but there is one with one bleeder and one with a 2 hole bleeder system, i am guessing one is for the top and one is for the bottom, the bottom going to the top or visa versa. i am attaching pix of the left rear and right rear and the 2 different versions they show for them.

left rear single port =    UP 17014                     left rear double port =   UP 17012


right rear single port =  UP 17015                       right rear double port = UP 17013



and the rebuild kits =  UP 184  (1 3/8")

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Those part numbers are available at NAPA
As for the prices, well your not going to be happy. 

To purchase the master cylinder and 4 wheel cylinders is over $700

Dave

[malodin]

Dave yes these are napa part numbers that is where i hunted them down, once i find those are the correct ones then i can hunt further down the line and see if i can find them cheaper.

however the rebuild kit is still available for the wheel cylinders

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

When I was doing a lot of research for this stuff, I used the Bendix site to cross-ref a lot of Dodge P/N's.  I could then cross-ref the Bendix number to a NAPA number.  The data I collected is at http://dave78chieftain.zxq.net/MasterCylinder.htm

[malodin]

dave i did not see the napa number on your page that corresponds to the one i posted.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

I was limited to using the information in the Dodge Manuals (Chassis & Parts).
Neither the NAPA or Bendix web sites support M375.  NAPA limits their site to just listing M300 for all years (cross ref info has to be used).
I cross referenced the Dodge P/N information from the Dodge parts book to the mfg P/N (Bendix/NAPA) or used the listing information on their websites (if available).

For the M375 wheel cylinders, this translates as follows:
Dodge chassis manual says:

M375 early chassis used 14.12" x 2" front brakes (not supported in Dodge parts book)

M375 later chassis used 14.2" x 2.5" front brakes.
  Left:   Dodge P/N - 2908647 / NAPA P/N UP 133368
  Right: Dodge P/N - 2908646 / NAPA P/N UP 133369

M375 (all years) used 14.125" x 3" rear brakes
  Left:   Dodge P/N - 36333311 / NAPA P/N UP 37669
  Right: Dodge P/N - 36333312 / NAPA P/N UP 37670

Early M375 has the 2 wheel cylinder (upper/lower) brake lines connected in series
Late M375 has the 2 wheel cylinder (upper/lower) brake lines connected in parallel

Given that it doesn't translate directly, I need some way of designating your information in order to add it to my data.

[denisondc]

The master cylinder photo looks right, & I expect I will get one when I have some funds.    I am grateful to have the help..
  I know that the same casting number was used on an International Harv. chassis application, but used a different piston from what the Winnie M.C. had, and might have a different 'stepped bore'.  It produced brake pressures & fluid volumes appropriate for the IHC chassis - that used different front & rear wheel cylinders, not only different piston diameters, but only 2 cylinders on the rear axle.  The originally Bendix system on the M375M400 used a different piston inside its MC.   If I buy the new MC I can open it up and compare it with my old leaky Winnie OEM m.c.  Or I suppose I could come up with a way to measure the output - could be tricky though, as I think you need to measure both volume and pressure at both output ports during the piston stroke.
  The top two pictures look right for the rear wheel cylinders, at least as far as having the bleeders on the same face of the casting as the brake line connection.  I can tell the one in the top photo doesnt have a brake line fitting on the 'lump' that would be on the inside face of the brake backing plate, and that is what the ones in the Winnie are like â€" no fitting on the lump.  In the 2nd photo I cant really tell, but there may be a hole threaded for a brake line fitting on that 'lump'.  If so, this would be a wheel cylinder used in the upper location of a system having 4 rear wheel cylinders, but only being fed by a single brake line to each brake backing plate (unlike the M375/M400 system on mine that had two brake lines feeding to each brake backing plate).  In this other system, the single brake line fed the upper cylinder, and a short brake line ran -inside the brake drum-  from the inner side of the upper cylinder (via the fitting on the 'lump') to the inner side of the lower cylinder; to its corresponding fitting also on the lump. (Yes I have seen this type of axle in JY's).  That is what the lower two pictures show.  They dont show a brake line fitting next to the bleeder, because they get their brake fluid from the line that is connected to the 'lump' inside the drum.  If you look carefully at the location of the bolt holes mounting it to the brake backing plate you can see the two photos show a right hand and a left hand version.  Not only does the bleeder have to be on the upper part of the w.c. for both right and left sides of the axle,  but also the lump was cast so as to make it easier for that 'inside'  brake line to pass around the axle housing.  And the lump on both the left-side and right-side 'lower' cylinders have to be 'in front' of the axle housing, to match up to the location of the lump on the upper wheel cylinders on the left-side and right-side brake backing plates.  
 Now if anyone is still reading.....The cylinders in the pictures can easily be manufactured in the left-hand and right-hand versions, starting with the same machined casting, thus one casting #.  The two threaded holes, for the bleeder screw and for the brake line, start out identical; an ordinary 3/8"-24 thread.  Into one of them they put the bleeder screw.  Into the other one they thread a steel 'insert' that has a hole through its middle, with its top machined so as to mate to the flared end of the brake line.    The cylinder in the 2nd picture could be made with the threaded hole for the 'internal brake line' by just drilling the hole into the other end of the 'lump'.
    Years ago I 'emailed'  with a Winnie owner who owned a NAPA franchise in W. VA. He was trying to get the correct parts for his early '73 M400 chassis,  and ran into plenty of confusion.  It was about the 10th part # 'pair' that he ordered that turned out to be the right ones.  His Cost was almost $90 each!    I took the NAPA part #'s he gave me (which I have lost in the last 6 or 8 years) to a place that works on light truck brakes -only- and is a Bendix/Wagner Lockheed distributor, and bought one of the wheel cylinders (Wagner-Lockheed branded).  It was only $70, but it was incorrect; being a dual ported version.
  It may look possible to use a single part number of wheel cylinder for all 4 cylinders on the rear axle of a Winnie M375/M400, but not at all easily.  The two mounting bolt holes are not symmetrical with respect to the hole for the bleeder/brake-line, and the hole for the bleeder/brake-line is not symmetrical with the two ends of the cylinder.  And the ends of the cylinder have to be equidistant from the brake shoes.  And so forth...
  If you could get 4 identical wheel cylinders (such as the one in the top picture), you could maybe use them - but  two of them would be 'upside down', meaning the bleeders would be coming out at the bottom of the wheel cylinder --- and how would you 'bleed' the air bubble out of that?
I am still grateful for the info, and will likely be spending money on them this summer. What good is a motorhome without reliable brakes?

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

If you have the original Dodge P/N's, 2 places to search for NOS parts is
http://www.partsvoice.com
and
http://www.collectorsautosupply.com

Dave

[malodin]

there is always just the rebuild kit,  up 184

[LVLFNXS]

I just got verified part numbers and accessibility for the parts.  I have a 72 M400 (M375) Chassis on my Cheiftain.

Olympic Brake Supply in Renton, WA. (206 575-8100)

Some of them are a week out at their resources, but he had many in stock.

Place/Side - Part #
Shoes:
Front - 111.03610
Rear - 112.03580

Brake Shoe Hardware kit, All: 118.68003

Hoses:
Front - 15068000
Rear - 15067338

Master Cylinder - 130.83006

Wheel Cylinders:
Front/Right - 134.67008
Front/Left - 134.67007
Rear/Diag - 134.62005Rear/Horiz - 134.6011

After reading through this thread..  I see that the Rear/Diagonal drilled wheel cylinders are what  your other photos are of.  The cust service guy stated that the single bore part is replaced by the double bore, and an extra bleeder can be put in to block the hole.  As for series versus parallel tubing?  Is there an advantage to either?  Only if the parallel isnt on the same proportioning block, incase one of the 2 cylinders failed, you would still have brakes.  The thing that I find interesting.. is that the bore is different and the thread tap for the bleeders are different.  hmm

[LVLFNXS]

Also, in search of finer clarification, I called Napa here in my area and quoted them the part numbers on the previous page.  Those part numbers did not come up in his system.  grrr

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Bendix site is the only place that will  show centrix crossref.

Dave

[RV Mech Tech]

Has anyone checked with Alretta Truck parts listed in the resource page? - do they have the correct parts such as the wheel cylinders ?  would like to know if I have to order parts- thanks!  Hm?

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Here is some cross reference information for the CENTRIX P/N's above:

Part	CENTRIX	BENDIX	NAPA
Master Cyl	130.83006	None	TS108018 UP36344
Wheel Cyl
Front/Left	134.67007	33540	UP13368
Front/Right	134.67008	33541	UP13369
Rear/Diag	134.62005	None	UP24489
Rear/Horiz	134.67011	33645	UP37279
Hoses:
Front	150.68000	88273 88200	UP4751
Rear	150.67338	None	UP381235
Shoes:
Front	111.03610	R361	TS361
Rear	112.03580	R358	TS358
Shoe Hdw Kit	118.68003	H7199    (Rear)	UP2243

Hope it helps - Dave

[LonghouseIndian]

I inquired about that M.C.(108018)at NAPA a while ago and they do not list ANY Dodge applications. It is for International. I ended up using #108015 (Dodge app. $35) which has the same casting # and 1.75" bore but.....the ports are on the wrong side! I have redone all the brake lines and hoses and made them to clear the driver's front wheel. I'm sure this is frowned upon and if it's not safe I won't drive it. Not sure what Dave was saying about a stepped-bore.  If I knew then what I know now I would have gotten a '74 M400 rather than a 72/73 M375. What have we gotten ourselves into!!!

[kingdome627]

 I know this thread is old, but I never saw a post that Definitively says that the Centric  130.83006 master cylinder will work on Late M375 chassis. The casting on the new master is 30042-C. The only difference I see is that the Front port will need a 1/2" to 7/16" adapter. (I saw a thread where someone on here paid $400+ dollars from Alretta that had this exact casting with the adapter) I paid $180. I am installing it this weekend and i'll report back if it works.
Sean

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Please do.   While I have always tried to deduce the online mfg info to id the correct part info, confirmation of the information is always appreciated.

[Chief Crazy Canoe]

Yes, I am one of those who've spent some $$$ with Geoff at Alretta  - was the correct unit and just needed to re-use the limiting washer off of the original unit. I didn't take note of the casting number...but researched and said it's best to go with stuff ya know.  Geoff knows his brakes!



Just installed it last week, finally able to bleed the system today with help from my son.  What a job!  I can't wait to hear how your install goes!