Generator for backup of real home power

[tatkin]

Sent: 12/12/2007

I was talking to an electrician at the watering hole.

He told me that if you create a power cord with two male ends on it you can use it easily for backup to supply your real house.

He said just throw the main breaker on the breaker box in the basement , off, and then plug that created cord into a socket.

Hmmm.

[Cooneytoones]

Sent: 12/12/2007

Now  I'm not an electrician and I know this procedure will work, but (with a capital B) I would Strongly advise against doing it.

The reason, unless you have a total house disconnect switch, one that disconnects the main breaker panel from the outside feed wires coming in from the electrical meter, you could KILL a Lineman who might be working on the line....the generator feeding electrical current into the house wiring could back-feed into the line, two miles down the road a lineman may be handing a dead wire that is now live.

This exact scenario happened near me about 3 years ago. It would be better to cut the little tag and unscrew the meter then remove meter ....You would get fined by the power company, but you wouldn't be facing a possible charge of man slaughter or negligent homicide... which is what happened to the homeowner who did that.  He was sentenced to 8 years in The Indiana Dept of Correction.....along with living with, causing the death of an innocent worker just doing his job....

Unless you have a whole house disconnect switch...You can buy one at Home Depot...and they are not very expensive, Until you have a switch  or want to chance pulling the meter....just run the genny and use extension cords in case of a power outage.

Timmy

[denisondc]

Sent: 12/12/2007

   It could work (using a double-male interconnect cord) in 80% of the cases - where the input breaker or fuse box had a functional double disconnect, or an outside main (double) disconnect.  In the other cases - what Timmy describes could happen.  The National Electrical Code has altered over the years, and has been implemented in varying degrees in different states and municipalities. It has also been ignored now and then.    And that is assuming no homeowner has altered the wiring after the house was completed.
   At our winter house in Hidalgo County TX, there is NO incoming disconnect. All circuits connect to a spine that is always live - unless you disconnect it at the meter.   Watthour meters aren't all the same either.  In some, you can unplug the meter, and the power is still connected - until you open a knife switch in-side the base of the meter.   In others, unplugging the meter amounts to a main disconnect.
    Thats why the official method for connecting a genset is to have a special box - to disconnect some or all of your house circuits from the power lines and redirect them to a genset supply.
   What we do is to have a set of heavy duty extension cords ready. One long one connects to the genset.  The others get run into the house, to supply the fridge, the sump pump, and a couple of lights.

[OldEdBrady]

Sent: 12/12/2007

The most intriguing part of this discussion is, I used the same configuration for the Calypso.  I took a power cord, cut off the female end, and installed a male end.

I did this because I wanted the electrical connection to the Calypso to have a weatherproof cover.

With a male end at the Calypso, I couldn't find anything to work without burying the connector inside.  So, I put in a female at the trailer, and fixed up the power cord.

Never had a problem.  In fact, when the Calypso isn't on the road, it is ALWAYS plugged in somewhere--even when the top is down.

[DanD2Soon]

Sent: 13/12/2007

It's a classic case of a little information being Really Dangerous.  When done correctly, it's fairly complex and usually costly, and it sure as H-ll does not involve using a double ended Male Cord.  Take Timmy & Dave Denison's advise - or - Like Tom (slantsixness) told Ed back in May:   Who (in his right mind) wants to go camping? 
 
Ed.....  Where I come from.... that's called a "DEATH CORD"  (Shameless plug for Lowe's: They have the male flush mount socket...)

A Weatherproof Flush mount Male receptacle like Tom mentioned being available at Lowe's is also available on-line for about $20 at this link:  Outdoor Receptacle, 110 Volt MALE plug   Using this type of receptacle has the advantage of allowing you to use standard (safe) extension cords.  It is intended for the use of "Feeding" an RV not a home.  Having said that, how you use it is up to you - It should be installed so as to receive the load (female) end of the extension cord.  Even if all that is done, AND you've insured that no power back feeds to the Power Lines by using a Transfer Switch or Disconnect, or by Killing the Main Breaker or whatever, you'll probably only have power available to Half the circuits in the breaker box.

I'm intending to be an S.O.B. here - Lets imagine we've got a double-male-ended shoreline and some little kid running by the trailer trips on the cord and it comes out...

[ohhmom]

Sent: 13/12/2007

Ok guys let me get this straight here.  Now we do something similar to this when our power goes out.  Now we have a service pole outside of our house with an outdoor box on it that has a lead from it that comes into the house.  We have some things like our well and pool pump wired into the outside box.  Now we always throw the main breaker on the outside box that is underneath the power meter...so are you telling me that even if the main breaker is off...that it can still backfeed into the line?  Or am I now just totally confused.  We have had the power company people out here working on our lines while the generator was hooked up in this fashion and they said that it was alright.  It is always to my understanding that you have to throw the main power breaker at any time before adding the generator.  This also prevents the generator from being blown up when the power comes back on!  Also please give me more details on how to avoid the double male connections.  We do that for power outages only at our house and we run two of them.  One on a receptacle on each side of the box so that we can pull current for anything we need(sparingly that is) in the house.
Thanks for the input...I love reading the emails daily!

Donna and Alan (still working on our Winnie)!!!!

[denisondc]

Sent: 13/12/2007

If you really have a double main disconnect, and it is on the Only service drop you have, then you are -probably- really disconnected from the power lines. But the problem is that we cant tell what is actually in your outdoor box or circuit breaker box - so we cant really offer solid advice. Or safe advice.
I have run into some strange stuff in working on old houses over the years. I no longer make any assumptions about anyone's house wiring, and I dont work on my own house based on any assumptions about it having been wired in accordance with the NEC.

[DanD2Soon]

Sent: 13/12/2007

Donna & Alan,

You're doing it ALL right & you're obviously used to doing it that way.  A "Rural" type service like yours with the built-in disconnect is a natural for this kind of generator hook-up.  As long as the switch is thrown before the connects are made & they are made in the right order - all's well.  I'd still feel better about it if even your set-up had the Male receptacle types feeding either side of your box so it could use standard cord ends - that would eliminate ANY chance of anyone getting zapped by the open contacts on the ends of your double-male-cords.

[ohhmom]

Sent: 13/12/2007

Thanks for the replies...but I am still a little lost...ok sometimes I need someone to draw me a picture!  Anyway everyone is talking about wiring the generator directly into the box...then you still have to connect something to the generator...so please tell me how this is done without having a live wire when the regular electricity is on?  I do understand the basics of electricity and the wiring ...but I am at a lose here.  If you run a wire from the box...that covers both sides of the box...how do you transfer electricity from  the generator to the box without having a live wire at all times.  Again maybe I am missing something...please help...because I would like to change the way we do this if we can understand the concept that I am missing.  My hubby is already thinking on this too!!!
Thanks again
Donna and Alan

[OldEdBrady]

Sent: 13/12/2007

OK, Dan.  FINALLY someone made an explanation that makes sense.

But...
LOWES?!?  ME?!?

Hey!  I'm one of the people who caused the local Home Depot to reverse their decision and not move into their new building!

So, I'll go on down there and check it out to see what I can find--when the weather is decent enough for me to actually do anything with the Calypso.

[DanD2Soon]

Sent: 13/12/2007

First - Ed, I have every confidence you'll git-r-done!

Second -  Donna & Alan - It's not so much about whether there's a live wire as how that wire is protected.  The way I understand your post " ...double male connections.  We do that for power outages only at our house and we run two of them.  One on a receptacle on each side of the box..."

You have two cords with male plugs on BOTH ends.  And you have two receptacles at your box, one wired into each "110 volt side" of a 220 volt system.  When the power goes out:   
You "Kill" the Main Disconnect to the Utility Company
Then you plug one of the double ended cords into each of the receptacles at your box   
Then you plug both cords into your generator.
And to go back to normal - you do these steps exactly reversed - it works for you and your Utility is O.K. with it - and you can use the receptacles at the box when you're on normal power.

My point is, IF either of your cords comes unplugged from the box end while the generator is running you have exposed live power on those bare male plug elements.  SO,   If you were to replace the two female outlets on your box with with these covered male outlets (Outdoor Receptacle, 110 Volt MALE plug),  You could use a regular extension cord, plug the male end into the generator, and plug the female end into these covered male receptacles - then if the cord end comes undone for any reason, there are no exposed cord contacts and the weatherproof cover snaps shut over the receptacle.  The only down side for you is that you could not use these as regular receptacles under normal conditions.   

Hope this helps...

[ontheroadagain]

Sent: 14/12/2007

here is a good link that explains how to do it with pictures and everything http://www.popularmechanics.com/how_to_central/home_clinic/1275631.html?page=1 

[DanD2Soon]

Sent: 14/12/2007

Thanks Chris - Great Link!  Using a transfer switch is really the only right way to do it.

[ohhmom]

Sent: 14/12/2007

I got it...I got it!!!!  Thanks sooo much Chris after hooking into the site you provided I now know what we need to do.  And after reading it....the transfer switch and box is what we really need to add!  Like I said sometimes you have to draw me a picture...and it worked!!  I was trying to figure out how to not have the live male end live when the generator is not in use...and the transfer box switch will do that.  Ok thanks for everyone hanging in there with me.  We now have some more electrical work to do around here...and I am sure that my hubby will love to hear that...but he does agree that we needed to change it when we started talking about it...and now I can tell him how!!!  Again thanks and I hope that this info helps others too!  Merry Christmas to all!
Donna and Alan.....still remodeling our Ice Cream Truck!!!!

[tatkin]

Sent: 28/12/2007

Goto ebay .

Search for "generator transfer"

There are a variety of switches available to accomplish this topic ...