Adding seatbelts for kids in an RV?

[bhart70]

Sent: 4/30/2003

This thought just popped into my head.  I'm curious about how I could correctly add seatbelts for my kids (outside of the driver and passenger seats I've never seen seatbelts in an RV-at least not any of the older ones I've been in).

I've got a 5 yo and 3 yo who use booster seats and a 5 mo who uses a car seat.  I know, theoretically,  I could weld up some brackets and through bolt them to the frame in the dinette area for example.  As a pessimist I'm concerned about my kids acting as a restraining device holding the dinette seats in place in event of a crash as opposed to the seatbelts holding in my kids.

With the seat bases being essentially boxes screwed to the floor/wall, any suggestions on a better bracketing system to really tie them into the frame?   Or would is just be as simple as making some larger brackets and bolting them down?  Or are they sufficiently attached to the body and it would just be a matter of bolting the belts to the dinette frame?

Lots of questions, but I look forward to any input you may have as the safety of my rug-rats is of utmost concern.  I know the best answer is to leave the little buggers home  but  I look forward to the family-time aspect.  Maybe it's not possible to correctly do it, but I figure it's worth a shot.

Any thoughts?   I know the whole physic/momentum thing, but I'd rather play it safe.

[varmitexpress]

Sent: 4/30/2003

I installed seat belt at my table for my 2 little ones. I went to the wrecking yard and got some old laps belts out of a 60's something ford pickup. I put them so that they are facing backwards(the safest I was told) and it also allowed me to drill though a piece of thick square tube behind the drivers seat. Works really well even with them in their child seats. If I can answer any questions you may have I'll be more than happy to.

Varmit Express

[78_Itasca]

Sent: 5/1/2003

my 78 has belts on the bench facing rear, my mother's 91 station wagon had a seat facing rear, and every child safety seat you buy is meant to be strapped in facing rear.  I don't think legality is gonna be an issue.

As for everything becoming a missile, not a big deal either.  Unless you leave the knife block on the cupboard when you travel, there aren't too many things to come loose in a wreck.  Our winnie doesn't have shoulder belts in the two front positions, and we considered adding them.  However, not done correctly we could end up taking our own heads off or breaking collarbones or something, even in a slow speed incident.  A friend of mine who works in the insurance industry showed me a few videos with loaded motorhomes hitting passenger cars at speed - car's junk and the curtains didn't even move.  Remember you've got on average a 3 to 1 weight advantage over the cars on the road if not more - in an accident you win.

Just for information - the belts on my bench & dinette are bolted through the floor to the frame.  I can send some pics if you like.

Jon

[bhart70]

Sent: 5/1/2003

Thanks for the feedback guys, it gives me an idea of what I'll have to do (hopefully soon!).

John, if you wouldn't mind sending a couple of pics it would be greatly appreciated.  I can put them in my Winnie binder (Bible).

I would just rather be safe than sorry.  With all of the nuts on the road today driving as though they were in a race, I'd like to be prepared for, shall we say, off-the-road adventures.  I tend to be on the pessimistic side.

I suppose I could install a roll cage and get some little fire-suits and crash helmets, too 

[Derrek]

Sent: 5/1/2003

You make a good point when you say that the seatbelt may just simply act as restraint for the dinette seats.

I often wondered whether or not one of these old winnies would actually stay in one piece in the event of a hard crash. You joke about the "roll cage" but many manufacturers went to a steel frame design that is supposed to act as a roll cage and help keep the unit in one piece.

I almost died from injuries resulting from a car accident that I could have walked away from if I had been wearing a seatbelt.

There is much debate on this subject and I do not want to start a war by any means but simply wanted to let you know I think that it is great that you are already thinking of these things and thinking of the safety of your little ones.

There are many shops around that supply parts for building dune buggies and sand rails and they should be able to set you up with some nice new lap belts

[bhart70]

Sent: 5/1/2003

Thanks for your input Derrek.  Happy to hear you made it through your accident ok.  I have had enough second-hand experience with accidents and seatbelts to make sure I buckle-up every time I get in the car (never mind if even to just set a good example for the kids).

My concern was having the dinette seat break free and transferring that weight and momentum to my kids bodies.   I'm probably being over-cautious but why not.  I'd much rather be safe than sorry.  I do have little or no regard for my body, but my kids' OTOH...

J.C. Whitney sells "standard" seat belts and you can get racing harnesses through Jeg's as well as other racing/hot-rodding catalogs.  I wish there were some dune-buggy/sand-rail builders (or even places to drive them) around here!

[melyash]

Sent: 5/1/2003

I have lap belts on both front seats, and also under the rear slide out bed in back. As for the dinette, you could reinforce it with some angle iron or brackets inside the storage compartment if you have one below, if this is a concern.  And since it is my two cents, I have been in enough crashes to last most people a couple of lifetimes and without belts I would have been dead or severely crippled on a couple of occasions. One of the favorite sayings is "what if the seat belt sticks, or I have a broken hand and can't undo it? Seatbelts do not "stick" they do not "trap you in", they keep your pink squishy and rather fragile bag of bones in a vehicle where most of the crash energy is going to be absorbed by said vehicle. This is instead of flinging your body out onto the concrete and allowing it to be mangled by the vehicles and debris flying around a crash site. 

If your hand is broken how are you going to open the door to get out. If you are worried about being trapped, get a life hammer, a device you can buy at Target for around $10 bucks which has a seatbelt cutter built in, as well as a device to break a window if you need to. You would be amazed at how tough your windows are when you try and break one.
 
Just my opinion, but one that is backed by facts and experience. Seatbelts Save Lives. Ok, I will now step off my soap box.
Matt

[Oz]

Sent: 5/1/2003

Interesting, my Indian has original seat belts mounted in the dinette and also in the rear bedroom gaucho.  - Sob

[HAL]

Sent: 5/1/2003

Hal Here. My 79 Brave has seatbelts facing the front and back at the dinette table. Belts come up from the floor through the bottom of the seat board and between the back and bottom cushion.

[jbrt1989]

Sent: 5/2/2003

As spacious as these things are, your passengers would be like dice in a cup.  Not good at all, I definitely like the idea of finding some way to safely restrain passengers.

Jeff

[Floridabaked57]

Sent: 5/2/2003

I thought it strange that my 71 Winnie has a seatbelt on the rear-facing bench of the dinette. it's bolted to the floor with the driver's belt.

John T

[bhart70]

Sent: 5/3/2003

It would be interesting to see what the laws are regarding seatbelts and which direction the seats need to face.  As recently as a couple years ago, Volvo and Taurus wagons had rear facing third seats (don't know if they still do) so I'm not sure if direction front or back is a determining factor.  Sideways may be.  All child seats are installed with the baby facing backwards until the kid outgrows it, then they move to a forward facing seat.

I would think that anything would be better than nothing, but in some cases it might not be.

You would think if there were "bunks" for 6 (albeit little people), there would be belted seating for 6.

[denisondc]

Sent: 5/4/2003

In the Campground Directory we get from our Good Sam membership I think there is a chart showing laws in each state affecting RVers, and there is a column for state laws about carrying passengers in trailers - and it varies, though most states seem to forbid it. Some allow it in 5th wheels, but not hitched trailers, etc. denison

[jbrt1989]

Sent: 5/4/2003

I was pretty sure that it was illegal in most states for passengers to ride in a pull behind camper or trailer like that. 

I can't imagine that it would be a wise idea no matter what the law.  I've seen way too many accidents over the years involving trailers, and it seems that a large majority of them ended up with the trailer getting a raw deal.

Jeff

[Rick Shaw]

Date: 2003/05/01

Perhaps you are correct that it is unwise to belt passenger facing backwards, but in this case I believe he was belting child seats. I suspect the kids are actually safer facing backwards. Actually adults probably would be also, if they had a head rest (dinette seats don't).

[bhart70]

Sent: 5/2/2003

While probably safer, it makes it kind of hard to steer.

[Sea Hag]

Sent: 2/18/2004

My 76 Has a dinette benches facing front and rear . I found 4 original seat belts ( with the flying W on them ) bolted to the floor under the dinette benches  - they were still rolled up in rubber bands it appears they were never used. -- there is a sticker in the back section ( couch/bed ) or bed room that states no one should ride in that the area while underway - Sea Hag

[tymhoff]

Sent: 2/23/2004

My '73 22D Indian has 4 original seat belts at the dinette and also at the couch in the back. I usually ask people to use them, but only insist with my kids.

[LVLFNXS]

Sent: 3/4/2004

Hello friends of CW.  I was thinking the other day when I was reading the daily posts, I came across this one, I should get the information you all need.  For some that done know, I work for a Blue Bird Bus dealership.  I looked the other day at how the seat belts are mounted on both the coach seats, and the drivers seat.  As it was stated earlier this week in here, the seat belts should be mounted to the seats themselves.  And the seats should be mounted to the floor, NOT a frame rail or crossmember.  I asked one of our technicians about it, and he stated that if they were mounted to the structured part of the bus, it would be unsafe for the passengers.  Thus, they mount to through the floor, and the floor gives just enough to protect from minor harm.  And, if the drivers and or front passenger seats are adjustable in height, the seat belts should thus be mounted to the seats at the same level of the occupant, BUT, the seat it self should be strapped down to the floor(not ta taught seat belt, but just one that can catch IF the seat height adjustment mechanism gives way to secure the seat from flying away in an impact situation.  If you all would like I can get some pictures of what I am talking about.  Let me know.  erikgatz@yahoo.com.   have a great day ya'll.

Erik

[Sea Hag]

Sent: 3/4/2004

I checked the mounting on the dinette belts they are mounted directly to the floor Thermo panel - the bottom side of the floor platform has a much heavier aluminum plate than the side panels - Looks like they used 9/16 or 5/8 bolts and large heavy washers on each side - Sea Hag

[bhart70]

Sent: 3/4/2004

Geez, I go away for awhile, come back, and see this post still languishing near the top!

I appreciate everyone's input.  Between work and my youngest son's OT & PT sessions (he's 15 months old and has Trisomy 21) things have been a little crazy.  Just been reading through a bunch of posts trying to catch up on some stuff.  While my desire for a D18/19/20 is still there, my means are temporarily not.  Had my little station wagon fatally crap out on me so I needed to replace that first.

Oh well, just have to put off the Winnie purchase a litte longer!  Hope all is well with all.

[Oz]

Sent: 3/4/2004

Glad to see you're keeping the faith.  We're pulling for you in all the challenges you have.   - Sob

[bhart70]

Sent: 3/5/2004

Thanks Sob!  I've gotta tell you, the little guy really put life in perspective for me!

In the meantime, I'll just have to live the Winnie lift vicariously through all of you. LOL

[mightybooboo]

Sent: 3/5/2004

Bhart, Best wishes to you and your family from the BooBoos.
Carl and Barbara Chetlan

[bhart70]

Sent: 3/6/2004

Thanks BooBoo's!

The Winnie is still going to come, it'll just be put off for a little while.  In the mean time I can still enjoy reading of your exploits and virtually commiserate with you all.