Causes for Chevy 454 belt failure

Oz · July 05, 2013, 08:15 PM

yeah, page one, scroll up from your post.

super1 · August 08, 2013, 01:07 PM

Thanks for the information. Very helpful.

Tommy

M & J · October 28, 2013, 10:41 PM

Now I've had my tribulation with a thrown belt. We just got back from a weekend dry camp and buggy riding near central Ohio.
I parked in front of the house to open up and check for zombies before backing the rig in alongside the garage.Thats 27 feet of motorhome plus a 16 ft tandem trailer.
Fired her up and CLANG CLANG CLANG and i shut her down. The fan was wearing itself out on something. Raising the hatch showed nothing so starting again the clanging almost immediately went away, Gauges were good, so I backed her in to park.
Last week I fully inspected and found the 6 rib alternator belt had shredded leaving about a quarter inch of belt left. Still enough to turn the alternator barely. Thank goodness it didnt happen on the narrow 2 lane rural roads over an hour from home and help.
The job went well as Kevin described, many thanks to those who posted diagrams and especially the pic of the engine since you cannot see the bolts so Dave, that picture was the best.
Found and put on a new Gates, my lovely wife help route the belt around the fan which proved to be the hardest part.
And by the way, our first weekend camping without power was flawless. Three new coach batteries ran the furnace all night, with lights and even a movie on the in dash dvd/player and screen I installed a few months ago. We did cheat and used the gennie for the coffee pot, but boiling water on the stove was also an option. We awoke to upper 20's and heavy frost but were warm and comfy.
I told Betty she was an excellent patient and as long as she took care of us we'd take care of her.

ClydesdaleKevin · October 29, 2013, 07:20 PM

Yay!!! Glad you got it fixed and had an enjoyable boondocking experience!

Kev

Seeburgrepair · March 11, 2014, 02:01 PM

I hate to sound really really STUPID.. but it seems there is NO OTHER WAY to change belts but take out the Radiator

and AC.. and tranny cooler.. whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

sure miss my 4107 greyhound.. no belts...

I just bought a super nice one owner 87 Pace Arrow.. needs some minor things...

but with 62,000 miles....and the AC belt is already off...? I sure hate to think of allllll this work... for belts....

A person sure doesn't wanta make any mistakes while changing all the belts.. huh...

I was looking at the dog house.. box.....LOTS OF SCREWS holding the WHOLE box assy...... and it goes up past the

front of motor.. ALMOST looks like someone could close their eyes and work BACKWARDS and upside down form INSIDE the MH to change belts...

wishfull thinking im sure.. oh well...

The info on this site is great....

Last ownwer had the Qjet rebuilt cause motor didn't pull smooth form dead stop.. stumbled eetc....

I found broke vacuum line feeding Dist adv. and adv seemed stuck in diaghram.. took apart and cleaned... and BLOCKED ALL VACUUM LINES to everything.. but the Dist adv.....

and THIS THING FLYS NOW

A set of Hedman Headers... and GEARVENDOR.. should get me 10 mpg easy... at 55....mph...

also a set of LITE advance springs to bring in total at 2200 rpm...

70 YO Master Mechanic....that wants to puke thinking about all of the work to change belts....... N:(

Seeburgrepair · March 11, 2014, 02:06 PM

Where can I download a manual for my 1987 P30 454 t400 Pace Arrow..

or at least a manual that shows

the Dis assembly for Belt replacement ?

thanks, Mike

legomybago · March 11, 2014, 02:53 PM

I was able to do my belts on an 86' p30 without toooo much cussing W% . I do remember I couldn't tighten down the power steering pump belt until I had the AC belts tight. My power steering pump was the worst of the bunch, it took metric wrenches from underneath to loosen/tighten (which are the only metric wrenches I carry in the rig) I think I was in the drivers side wheel well!! But I also cut my "road hazzard" plate in half (It's the plate that wraps around the steering shaft and componets and the brake MC), to better access the master cylinder and the left side of the engine. I used a sawzall and cut carefully, then made a backing plate and mated it back together with 1/4" bolts. It worked great. I wish I had a pic....Makes it easy to do exhaust gaskets too.

DaveVA78Chieftain · March 11, 2014, 04:27 PM

Quote from: Seeburgrepair on March 11, 2014, 02:06 PM
Where can I download a manual for my 1987 P30 454 t400 Pace Arrow..

or at least a manual that shows

the Dis assembly for Belt replacement ?

thanks, Mike

First, the P30 chassis itself is covered by the GM manuals (3 manual set) which are available for free for site members here (Members Area button at top of page). If you do not wnat join the site then here is a post that lists the different GM P30 manual sets:
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,4974.0.html

2nd, the Operators manual for your rig is available from the Fleetwood site: http://www.fleetwoodrv.com/partsandservice/manuals.asp

I do not know if Fleetwood provides maintenance documentation for their rigs.

Dave

Stripe · March 11, 2014, 07:04 PM

I feel weird, it's not that difficult for me to open my dog house and get to my belts after I take the air filter off..I teke the air filter bolt out of the carb lay a blanket over the engine and I'm good to go. Not upside down mind you, but actually laying flat face down looking down at the belts. I loosen one or two systems (A/C or Alt depending on what needs replacing) to get the belts off.

M & J · March 11, 2014, 08:31 PM

Thats what I did except for snaking the belt around the fan blades.

circleD · March 11, 2014, 09:09 PM

GO HOLIDAY RAMBLER! It is easierish to do on these but I'm about to acquire an electric fan that will have the same CFM as the mechanical fan plus one on the exterior to eliminate the hassle. Has anyone thought about putting on all new belts, water pump, pulleys and basically overhauling the whole front of the motor while you have it apart? I'm just curious if it's worth the hassle and cost.

Stripe · March 12, 2014, 12:41 AM

Never thought of that.

Post an infoblog on that fan conversion you did. Pics too if you got 'em. I'm curious now. I know that can recover some HP from the motor.

legomybago · March 12, 2014, 11:22 AM

Thats what I did circleD, when I had the radiator out getting re-cored, I replaced the belts, water pump, fan clutch, replaced the bearings in the alt and air pump...fun stuff

tiinytina · March 12, 2014, 11:44 AM

I've replaced the belts, as needed, and when we removed the AIR system, and replaced the fan clutch... but knock on wood if it ain't broke don't fix it... thus knock on wood

water pump, alt, bearings etc. still original...

Have about 78K on her now.

tina

ClydesdaleKevin · March 12, 2014, 10:22 PM

Ours came with the mechanical fan and 2 electric fans...which I rewired to control from the dashboard for different heat conditions. And then I added a secondary transmission cooler and another fan controlled from the same switch.

Kev

DonD · March 25, 2014, 08:03 PM

Changed the belts today. Took about 4 hours with a lot of learning as I went

The only belt that was really toast was the first one on (PS to crank stand alone one). The rest were in good shape and are now spares. The back of my hands and arms are a bit beat up, pretty tight in there.

Tools required:
1/2" socket
1/2" box end wrench
9/16" socket
3/4" open end wrench
1/2" ratchet and short ext. to tension the PS belt via a 1/2" square hole on the pump
Bar to tension some belts
Light
Mirror
2 bottles water

DonD · March 25, 2014, 09:30 PM

Seeburgrepair , I'm 68...you can do this !!!

engineer bill · August 23, 2014, 05:46 PM

Our '89 Winne has the belt set-up with Air Conditioning and two AIR pumps.

We had a complete cooling system overhaul by a prominent local shop in Feb 2014. The radiator was really leaking bad but I had been sick so we decided to just suck it up and pay a shop to do it. They replaced the radiator, fan, fan clutch, water pump, thermostat, belts, hoses. I don't know what the part numbers were because the final bill, which was huge, did not list parts-just big numbers for sub-systems. Grand total $2,762. They became surly and combative when I asked for an itemized list. LOL. I've been spoiled by my Toyota dealer I guess.

Well here we are, 600 miles down the road and something new falling off the cooling system every week. Lots of missing hardware and misaligned pulleys. Turns out the warranty was 30 days. I guess the old saying: "if you want it done right, your going to have to do it yourself" applies. I've read this thread very carefully but I'm still not sure about belt part numbers. Fortunately I've been feeling better and am in a better position cope with this.

Don, Kev did you keep track of the belt part numbers. (I'm especially interested if you found that the factory belt length was incorrect)

DonD · August 23, 2014, 05:57 PM

Gates:

Alt/a.i.r./wp=K060560
PS=3L410
A.I.R. (the lone one)=7450
A/C/ps/wp=3L610<---Should be 7612, the 3L is too narrow.<------OR a 60in narrow which I couldn't find.
The 61 in. narrow drops too far into the pulley making it "too long".

eXodus · October 08, 2014, 10:09 AM

Today i discovered that the Shop which did my A/C did use the wrong pulley at the power-steering pump - the most outward and this killed the belt.

So I did it back and had the idea - there are two pulleys left - could I just strap a belt in between ?
[smg id=6806][smg]

I don't really trust the couple of inches in which the A/C is driven. So I would have more security for all V-belts.
If any of these three belts would snap - the whole system would be still running.

Could this be a good idea ?

engineer bill · October 12, 2014, 04:03 PM

Getting this thread back to belt failures etc. etc.

I spent some time customizing the belt diagram for my vehicle (1989 Chevy 454 CA smog-dual AIR pumps). I also found the GM part numbers for the belts and a lot of helpful but sometimes contradictory information on belts from NAPA, Gates etc. etc.

I'm going to try to track down all of my belts <before> I have a crisis and need them.

Interestingly, after having a complete cooling system overhaul in February (2014), I was in another shop having an alignment done and alignment shop helpfully removed a little spacer from behind the smog pump pulley that was causing the belt to be misaligned. When I picked up the RV they gave me the spacer and essentially told me that it was "an extra unnecessary part". Little did they know that the spacer was meant to go on the outside of the pulley and is necessary to prevent the pulley mounting bolts from (possibly) bottoming out in the tapped holes thereby leaving the pulley loose on the shaft. I just love this stuff!

engineer bill · October 12, 2014, 04:11 PM

In answer to eXodus's suggestion that he use the "extra" pulley groove on the water pump pulley to drive the a/c compressor.

Here are my thoughts: The "extra" pulley groove is used when the first AIR pump is installed. That is, belt D. Otherwise it is vacant.

So, it might work -but- it would have to be the perfect length in order to stretch along with belt B to get the right tension in each of the belts.

... hope this helps.

BrandonMc · July 27, 2016, 04:49 PM

I think I have the same setup in my 88 Chieftain, so thank you for your diagrams. I remember mine is just like this setup. I am going to order all the belts. Having good luck locating cheap belts on rock auto, except for your "Belt C" 14087549. I am also having trouble finding a suitable one cross-referencing online.

I already purchased this one, but as it says its excluding motorhome:

GATES K060560 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Century Series Premium OE Micro-V Belt; K06-13/16" x 56-5/8"
InfoFan, Alternator and Air Pump; Excluding Motor Home

EDIT:

Ok, looks like this belt will be okay to use according to this excellent post: http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=11119.0

Rickf1985 · July 27, 2016, 05:59 PM

Yes, you should have the serpentine belt for the alternator, fan, AIR pump. Are you still running the emission pump?

87Itasca · July 29, 2016, 12:31 PM

When I bought mine, the PO said he had done the belts when he had the radiator out, going into a little detail about how much of a PITA it was.

That being said, my alternator belt is the one I have problems with. When it's warm out, it will lightly squeal for about 20 seconds or so, then all is fine the rest of the time I drive.

I've got a method now, it's start the engine, toss it in reverse with the foot on the brake, and slowly work the wheel back and forth a couple inches to drop the RPM's down. This results in the belt "catching" much faster than if I just let it high idle. I can watch the alt gauge go from around 12.5V to 14V. Once it's a bit past the halfway mark, all is well. When it's hot, and I restart it, it's never an issue, only when the engine has been sitting.

I've tried a couple times half-heartedly to figure out how the hell I'm supposed to get to this stuff. I can't get far enough under the dash to access the belts, as the A.I.R pumps and accompanying lines get in the way of everything, I can't get to it from the underside because my arms aren't long enough to adjust the alternator.....and I'll be darned if I have to pull that radiator back out, no idea how that's done. I think I just need to tighten the belt a bit, reckon I'll get to it one of these days...