Correct thermostat for 440-3?

[intofire1]

Sent: 3/6/2005

Thanks I will take mine off this week and I will let you know the out come. Gil

[intofire1]

Sent: 3/11/2005

Replaced the thermostat and flush the radiator. It all look good once I clean the engine up. The old thermostat look like the new one so I will keep as a spare part. Spent from 6am to 4pm working on the MH most in the shop on wheel bearings (that's another post). My wife states that I could not have a girlfriend because I was covered with grease. It was an enjoyable day. Thanks for the help. gil

[Easybago]

Sent: 10/20/2005

Tonight I removed my 195 degree skirted thermostat and replaced it with a regular 180 degree Stant thermostat (NAPA man said I don't need a skirted thermostat). I'm thinking 195 - 210 degrees is just too hot. After getting everything back together, I fired her up and let it idle for about 25 minutes. Everything looked good until I put her on the road. As soon as I started driving, the temp started rising. I only drove it about 5 miles round trip but the temp reached 220, higher than it has ever been. Needless to say, a skirted thermostat will be going back in. I'm gonna look real hard tomorrow for a 160 degree skirted thermostat.

When I got back in the house, I did a little research on skirted thermostats and found an interesting article on how the skirted thermostats work in Land Rovers. I assume the 440's work on the same principle. The following is the article, author unknown.

"The series III and earlier Land Rovers use a skirted thermostat. There is a cylinder or skirt that moves when the thermostat opens. This moving cylinder is actually a coolant flow valve.

The thermostat housing has an oval opening in the side which leads to the bypass hose. The bypass hose forms a passage between the radiator entrance and exit allowing coolant to be pumped through the engine while the thermostat is closed.

If there were no coolant flow while the thermostat is closed local hot spots will occur in the head that will eventually cause head cracks.

The skirt on the thermostat closes off the oval bypass opening when the thermostat is open. When the thermostat is closed, the skirt is away from the opening so that water can flow through the bypass.

If you use the common skirtless thermostat the by-pass opening remains open continuously regardless of engine temperature. The pump of course will pump the same amount but the flow will take the line of least resistance which is through the by-pass rather than the long way around through the radiator.

This will cause your engine to run hotter in warm weather. The temperature gauge sender is located at the front of the engine by the thermostat. With most of the water bypassing the radiator, temperatures at the rear of the head can be significantly higher than your temperature gauge indicates. The high temperature gradient can cause the head to crack.

Engines from the 110 onwards have a different thermostat housing and uses the common skirtless thermostat. Instead of the large oval opening the housing has a bypass hole about 3/8" in diameter.

When the thermostat is closed, the small opening to the bypass hose provides sufficient bypass flow to keep hot sports from occurring in the head.

When the thermostat is open the small hole provides more restriction than the radiator forcing most of the coolant to flow through the radiator."

[Cooneytoones]

Sent: 10/20/2005

Randy.....The NAPA guy is wrong...  in the 440, the skirted Thermostat is a must....I got a Stant.....   bought at NAPA......I'll post the parts number tomorrow...

Timmy

[Easybago]

Sent: 10/20/2005

Yeah, he's way off on alot of things. He also gave me the spark plugs with the gaskets when I told him it takes tapered plugs. However, I did get the right starter! Only because I took the old one with me...lol

After I told him I was getting my info from the site, he says, and I quote..."It's just someone elses opinion". So now after doing all this work and gonna have to do it again, I have formed an opinion about him and it's not too good.

The PN would be great! Thanks!

[Cooneytoones]

Sent: 10/21/2005

The original Mopar thermostat is almost impossible to find. Not impossible but very hard..they do exist but are rare.....None of NAPA's numbers cross over to the original Dodge part  number.....after extensive searches, and I think another post on CWM, the thermostat I'm using now is a NAPA Superstat 532080 ...it is made by Stant, and is skirted. The 440's run much hotter than most of Chrysler's other engines, the skirted thermostat also has a larger opening in it and the skirting slows down the flow just enough to keep the coolant in the radiator for a few seconds more allowing the coolant to cool properly, the other good thing about the skirted thermostat is, if they fail....they fail in the open position, not closed, and you won't be walking out of Dodge to get it fixed.
According to the Dodge Chassis Service Manual... "ALL 440-3's must to use the skirted thermostat and nothing else or they will run too hot and fail.....the 413's however can use either. " Dodge not only states this, they illustrate it in the manual with two pictures saying for the 440's use this one, NOT this. Pointing to the skirted and non-skirted....Tell the NAPA guy it's not anybodies opinion, it's a fact from the Dodge engineers. And the only opinion that counts in the parts business is weather you buy parts from his NAPA store, or go down the road to CarQuest, Advanced Auto Parts or some other store that is knowledgeable about what part will fit correctly.

and that's the facts
Timmy

[Easybago]

Sent: 10/22/2005

That number is sweet music to my eyes. After going to every dealer in town today and coming up with nothing, nada, zilch, 0, I will confront my local NAPA man with this Monday morning to see what he has to say about that.

I went ahead and re-installed my original 195 degree skirted thermostat this afternoon so we could make our little trip to the lake in the morning. I ran Annabelle for at least 20 miles after re-installing the thermostat and she never got above 205 degrees. Can't hardly wait for a 160 or 180 degree thermostat.

You da man Timmy! Thanks!

Randy

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 11/1/2005

Grr!. Napa part number 532080 is not a skirted thermostat. I used this thread to order one. It is now sitting in my car. Timmy would you care to photocopy that manual and send it to me or post a picture here.

I cannot find this thermostat. I was told by the Dodge dealer that part number 3512998 is not in stock at any dealer in the country and does not cross-reference to a new part number. It is obsolete. I went to AutoZone without any part numbers. They couldn't help me. I called back with Robert Shaw part number 370-180. I was told it was not in stock but they had some on order and it would be on the shelf tomorrow. The lying SOB. I went there today. None have been ordered since 2001. They have not had any in stock since 2002. The part was no longer stocked by them. They again could not help me. They are going to get a letter and a frequent customer card sent back to them. My shadow will never again grace their doorway, to many problems, to many times.

I went then to Napa where I had ordered part 532080 yesterday. It was in but not skirted. I heard a story from the manager that he has been selling parts since 1972 and the 440 has always been this one particular part no matter what 440 it is. The one I bought, part number 532080 is not skirted. Timmy, I want to take the information from your service manual into him and tell him to post it on his forehead so he won't forget that they indeed are different.

Needless to say. I have not found the correct skirted thermostat locally and the thermostat put in by Greene's is not the correct one. I guess I have to pay $20 some odd dollars at Jeg's and hope that the one that comes to me is skirted. According to Jeg's: "Product images may differ from actual product appearance."
Steve who is so ticked off that he didn't eat lunch.

[Easybago]

Sent: 11/1/2005

I'll take partial blame for your frustrations today. I ordered the 532080 from NAPA last week and found out it is not skirted. I was going to post about that but with being so busy trying to get everything ready for my trip this past weekend, I simply forgot. I feel your pain as I have exhausted all avenues locally of finding one.

I ended up just putting the 195 degree thermostat back in seeing as the weather is cooling off somewhat. Hopefully, I'll find one by next spring.

[Elandan2]

Sent: 11/1/2005

OK,  I'll try again.  Go to www.stewartcomponents.com .  They have skirted thermostats in all temperature ranges for $10.95.  They are made by Robertshaw.
Rick

[Cooneytoones]

Sent: 11/1/2005

I have a NAPA 532080 Superstat.........    and it is skirted......looks exactly as the picture in the 1976 Dodge Service Manual...  I will scan the Manual page tomorrow and post it right here....yes the Dodge Part is obsolete and nothing crosses over....but the Robertshaw T-stats also will work as well (they are skirted)
Timmy

[Cooneytoones]

Sent: 11/1/2005

Here is a photo of a Skirted Thermostat.....The NAPA 532080 Superstat looks just like this...


Timmy

[Easybago]

Sent: 11/1/2005

It may be that Stant changed their thermostat but kept the same number. The one I got was just a regular unskirted thermostat, but it sure was pretty and shiny! It's looking like the Stewart Components thermostat may be our only option now.

Now, I'm going down in temperature, but do I go all the way down to 160 or 180 degrees? I live in eastern NC and it gets very hot and humid here in the summer.

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 11/2/2005

I will take a picture of the new napa part number 532080 and post it. It doesn't look like that at all. As Easybago said, it is bright and shiny. It looks just like any other thermostat. Too bad there is not a manufacturer out there reading this thread.

I'm thinking if I can find a number of the correct ones for $4.99, I just might buy 10 of them, keep a couple and offer the rest up for sale here. This is ridiculous trying to find the correct thermostat for an engine that is in thousands of motorhomes.

[denisondc]

Sent: 11/2/2005

The unskirted thermostats will probably work if your cooling system is otherwise good, i.e. the radiator is fairly clean, fan clutch is good,…But with a fully warmed up engine you will still have some water getting pumped through the “warm-up” loop, instead of it all going through the radiator. You wont have 100% cooling. This would be more noticeable when the radiator has been in the vehicle for a few years and its heat transfer capacity is diminished by sludge, etc.
You can order the skirted thermostats on-line from www.summitracing.com, over the phone with a credit card. The part number is MRG-4367 for their 180° thermostat, about $10 plus shipping. They don’t seem to offer the 160 or 195 thermostats now, but you could call and ask them. A few years ago they did list them.
Another source is: www.stewartcomponents.com. The catalog number for their ‘mopar big block’ skirted thermostats is: 304, 305, and 306, for 160°, 180°, and 195° respectively. They are each $13 plus shipping.
As for which thermostat temperature you choose; in my 413 I have used all 3 temperatures. They all work about the same, with only 2 differences: The location where the temp gauge needle points to, and how feeble the heater is during chilly weather with the 160° thermostat in it. With an unskirted thermostat, and a clean radiator, the water temp gauge needle would wander up and down mysteriously.
Since most of our use of our Winny is in summertime in the U.S. south, I have been using the 160° thermostat. Running too cool is not a problem in the Rio Grande valley in summer.

[The_Handier_Man1]

Sent: 11/2/2005

I was given this info from an old parts guy and used it to find a couple of thermostats last year. If you go to http://www.partsvoice.com/ login as a guest with your zip code and then the find parts page you can locate dealers around the country that might have what you need. The part no. for my thermo is 3512998 . Good luck, Les

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 11/4/2005

Ordered 3 thermostats from Summit Racing yesterday. I took pictures. Two are Miloden parts MIL-16405 and MIL-16406, the other is Mr Gasket, part MRG-4367. Remove the prefix for the manufacturer part number. They are all correct. The first part number is for the 160 degree thermostat. The other 2 are 180 degree thermostats. Here are pictures with the last one being a comparison of the now incorrect Napa part to the correct Mr Gasket part. Since they have been hard to track down in the correct configuration, you may want to get them while you can, before some cost cutting company wants to make a change like everyone else and start selling the wrong thermostat.

Don't bother paying the extra $2.07 for the Miloden. The Mr. Gasket and Miloden are exactly the same, even have the 370-180 stamped on them. There is no visual difference what-so-ever between the two. They are obviously made on the same assembly line.

Hope this helps. BTW - the opening for the Napa part is about half the size of the other thermostats. Think this has something to do with overheating?

Steve

[Elandan2]

Sent: 11/4/2005

I went to a parts outlet here that is listed as a Mr. Gasket dealer (Lordco Auto Parts)
and they have the Mr. Gasket skirted thermostats listed.  Only 13.89 Cdn.( that's about free in US dollars, lol)  Rick

[brakeparts]

Sent: 11/8/2005

Hi all !

For anyone looking for a top quality thermostat from the days when these things were made with real copper and real brass, I have 8 160 degree Dole thermostats for the Dodge 318 or 440 engine which have a wide skirt on them and are truly beautifully made - all brass with a copper core element! I have had these in the warehouse for some 25 years since the days when McQuay-Norris had the Dole brand thermostat line to sell.

Frankly, I would like to liquidate these parts as they have no place in my current business model. If anyone would like one or more, they are available for $12 each delivered via USPS Priority Mail to all 50 states, taxes included. A second thermostat is only $8 in addition, so two would be $20 delivered.

I am sorry, but I do not have any 180 or 195 degree units.

The Chrysler part number is 3514774; this part is shown by Dole/McQuay-Norris for both a 160 and a 180 model.

Contact me via email at brakeparts@mac.com or by phone at the whse.

Regards,

Geoff
Alretta Truck Parts Inc.
508-788 -9409 / 10:30-5:30 weekdays

[Easybago]

Sent: 11/8/2005

I called Geoff today and ordered two of the thermostats. I spoke with him for awhile and it was nice to speak with someone who sells parts and actually knows what we have! I'm sure I'll be dealing with him in the future for many of my winnie's needs.

[zzzfly]

Sent: 11/12/2005

Take a look on Ebay. Picked mine (Stant) up for 5.00 new and 2.00 shipping.

bob

[OldEdBrady]

Sent: 12/11/2005

It appears Stewart Components may have changed their email address. I received a catalog from them a couple for days ago, and they show an entirely new address.

They sell water pumps, thermostats, and a few other items.

http://www.waterpumps.com

Phone numbers:
(906) 789-28126
(906) 233-0305 - Fax
(336) 859-2555 - Tech

[AllanCZ]

Sent: 3/14/2006

According to the pictures on their website, it looks like Checker/Schuck's/Kragen might have the skirted thermostats.

http://www.cskauto.com

Prestone Thermostat, Power Performance
PN's 370160, 370170, 370180, 370195
160, 170, 180 & 195 degrees respectively.
$12.99 each

We have Checker here so I'll go check in-store soon.

Allan

[AllanCZ]

Sent: 3/14/2006

Here's a link to it at the Prestone site:

http://prestone.com/products/capsThermostats.php

It's all the way at the bottom.

Allan

[JCMAC]

  Use a 180°F for max fuel economy and 160°F for max power.  This is the standard for internal combustion engines.

John