Body front end, Engine & Transmission removal? '77 Itasca C25C Class C

[johnnytugs1]

hi,
i have a 1977 itasca c25c i'm attempting to remove the engine and it seems that the nose is one piece of molded fiberglass. how do i get it off?
thanks,
john

[Froggy1936]

Hi John, My 1977 Winnie has a fiberglass frt end also on a Chevrolet P30 chassis I have never removed it but have looked at what is necc Also i have repaired loose fenders.  I can see that it is all bolted on You will have to disconnect all light wires, There are screws at the top rear That hold it to the firewall. The inner fender metal Shields are held in with screws and bolts at the frt edge Seems like main support is at frt radiator support it will be a pull and find all the connections Good luck I don't think you can find anything in print  Frank

[johnnytugs1]

thanks frank, so far i have the nose to radiator upper & lower off,  the bumper off, grille off,  i got the 3 under the (rear) hood line off. i heard there were 14.nuts, bolts or screws that come off  i have 11. do you know if the supports from the firewall to the header/radiator support need to come off before i can take off the front clip/nose.
JT

[Froggy1936]

Hi John. I do not think they have to come off as they only help the radiator support. there has to be some kind of fastener at the rear edge of the fenders top and or bottom. How about posting some pics of your rig. You can see what mine looks like at the gallery and on this post. What size & make engine in yours ? Also wile replacing engine would be the time to upgrade transmission to 4 speed w OD and lock up Torque converter which would increase MPG more than any thing else you can do  Frank

[johnnytugs1]

sorry for not responding sooner i thought i had. it's rough when u get old! W%
i have a chevy 350 4 bbl. with a 400 trans i believe. here is a pic.


or try my photobucket page
http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk109/johnnytugs1/My%20motorhome/
thanks,
JT

[johnnytugs1]

 I finally got the nose off and the engine is almost ready to come out, hopefully today. There's just not enough hours in a day.
Here are some pix














Thats it for now.
JT

[RV Mech Tech]

JT1 - good pics! - this really shows whats involved in pulling an engine/transmission out of a vehicle - at least you have room around the engine to work- try and pull a V-10 out of a newer Ford RV class C!     

[jkilbert]

good pic of your project. my dad has the same coach and our problem was like yours. enough water damage that we had to rebuild the overhang. because of all of the corrosion and pin holes in the skin . we used duct tape on the exterior as a temp. seal then applied fiberglass mat and approx 2gal of resin to seal the bottom. then 3/4 in treated plywood for the bunk base. take off tape and exterior was ready for body prep. we used regular paneling to finish the walls

[Froggy1936]

That is exactly the same as my Mini Winnie, What were the hard to find fasteners for the Fiberglass frt end ? I see the ones at the frt of the fender splash shields What about at the rear of the fenders ? And across the top at the windshield ? How Heavy is the whole assembly to lift ?  Frank 

[johnnytugs1]

I have to go back and figure it out. but i just took a look and it went like this:

1)  Remove grille
2)  Remove bumper (Just the bumper no brackets)
3)  Remove top 3 bolts that hold the front top of nose to radiator support
4)  Remove screws from wheel well to nose straps (wheel wells stay)
5)  Remove 1 bolt from lower nose to lower radiator support
6)  Remove 4 screws/bolts from back of hood area to fire wall brackets
using 2 people shimmy the nose forward, resting on the bumper brackets
it may seem like it is still attached just @ top of nose below the rain guard vent looking thing below the windshield there were no fasteners there on mine just stuck to a rubber skirt that runs horizontally from drivers side to passenger side under the vent looking thing that blocks the leaves from getting in below windshield (that stays also)
the marker lights front and side have to disconnected from the power source but not necessary to remove just unplug the wire to them.
there are wires that go from the headlight harness that have to be disconnected and a ground that comes back out to headlight where its screwed to panel as a ground. i cut the ground towards the back of the headlight so i could comfortably reconnect with a butt connector. the screws were rusted so i had to cut the ground or chiesel the screw.(i'm lazy)
the radio antenna had to be removed at fender and the base dropped thru the hole in fender and laid to the side.
i was told that there were 14 bolts /screws holding the nose on in the engine compartment area. i think i only had 11 so it may vary (not sure)
To get to the engine..
I took the radiator support out(2 people) as one piece. containing the radiator 2 trans coolers ithink they are, a/c evaporator.
the fan shroud had to be disconnected from the top of radiator support to allow you to get to a bolt that holds the tranny lines (i believe they were) at the bottom.
The shroud was held on from 3 screws/bolts from top and one going the opposite way from the engine compartment towards where you would be standing. i had no fasteners holding in the bottom of shroud.
There are 2 bolts on each fender well forward and 2 bolts going thru the bumper brackets that hold in the radiator piece that i took out as one.
I removed the a/c lines attached across the top of shroud (e.p.a. likes you to vacum system before removing any a/c lines) and where they connect to the compressor you may not have to. there are 3 lines that go from the powersteering pump to behind the brake resevoir that have to be disconected.
I'm taking the trans out as well.
removed the drive shaft from rearend, from the center support and back of transmission. cover trans tail with a plastic bag and rubberbands.
2 bolts to tranny mount (haven't taken out cross member yet hoping i don't have to.)
disconnect trans lines , carb linkage some heater hoses and radiator hoses.
trans linkage and i believe i'm ready to pull the motor And trans together.
wish me luck.
JT

Frank ,there were only 2 at the wheel wells 1 per side i believe. nothing holding at the back of fenders like on an old chevy car.the nose only weighs 70-100 ish lbs. but 2 people no sweat. wouldn't attempt it with one person. i'd be afraid of breaking the fiberglass.
The radiator assebly was a little heavier maybe 150ish.

Feel free to call me if anyone has any other questions as i may not be on the pc much. then u can post your question and the crazy answer i tried to explain.
91 7 * 842-1 8 0 9 -

[RV Mech Tech]

JT1 -

1)  Cap any A/C lines to prevent any more moisture from getting in ( if you haven't already done it).
2)  Drain the trans pan and let it drain for a few hours - this not only  will drain the sump but the converter will leak down as well - the tailshaft doesn't have a sump and the speedometer gear and tailshaft bushing receive oil when the trans is running but the bag you put on the tailshaft will not be enough to hold the oil and it will end up on the driveway ( I've seen licensed mechanics do this!  D:oH!)
3)  Before removing the powertrain mark alignment marks on both the trans converter and the engine ring gear/flywheel - this is done for balancing and you will see balancing tabs on the flywheel and possibly on the converter as well- even if you do not use this trans and you sell it whoever does use it will have those marks as reference 
4)  When you do separate the trans from the engine fully support the trans as the weight can and will crack the flange that bolts to the engine - ( I have seen one guy do this too - all of a sudden he was no longer an "expert" to his buddies!!!  ) 
5)  If the coach has been sitting and not running for a long time then be carefull with any bolts being seized -most will come out with penetrating oil and some muscle but you may need some heat- the spark plugs may give you trouble and if so heat them up (not too much -you can crack the cylinder head)  and let it cool down- repeat this  a few times and the plug should come out. 

[johnnytugs1]

RV MT i covered the a/c lines with plastic & rubberbands (my favorite) i had the yoke in the trans, the lines still connected. no leaks. i did forget to brace the trans and didn't know to mark it.  needless to say the exhaust bolts all snapped everything else came out o0o0ok. i took somemore pics today in the sunlight...um.......warmth well warmer then it's been. i'll get'm up asap. oh btw i got the motor & trans out together yaho0o0o0o0o
.
thanks,
JT

[johnnytugs1]

here are a few more pics, i updated  them with some notes
this shows where fasteners( bolts,screws, etc) that need to be removed are located




notice red highlighted area the bolts are actually above that highlighted area. i highlighted the bumper bracket sorry






motor & trans removed......yaho0o0o0o

i hope this helps.
JT

[Froggy1936]

Fantastic !!  Makes changing the spark plugs look easy  Ha ha      Everything is exactly the same on mine I have had the inner fender shields out to put new (rusted off) brackets into the fiberglass fenders The whole frt end was flapping in the breeze.Frank

[johnnytugs1]

i found that if you remove the front d/s tire that it makes it super easy to change the d/s spark plugs the pass. side i got thru the dog house. the only way it could have been easier was if my son did it 
i found the three brackets on top/foward of the engine compartment may need replacing 2 of them hold the hood pins and are a little chessey.
JT
i just hope i remember where everything goes when i put it back together.

[Froggy1936]

Yea, You cannot change L/S plugs till you remove the tire, Still you have to use a universal and a long extension. Till you put on headers,  then you have to use a box wrentch on a couple of them. As a socket will no longer go on  Ill replace mine when it starts missing, I carry a spare set. & all the tools necc. hope it does not happen in the rain or cold weather  Frank

[RV Mech Tech]

JT1 - thanks for the great pics-  this is good info for us  'Winnebago rookies'  like me!! - now I know how the front end comes off ! ( learn something new everyday! )

[johnnytugs1]

Well a funny thing happened when I tried to fit the 454 where the 350 once was. i got it squeezed in, the pass side motor mount fits but the valve cover is laying against the fire wall on the drivers side and won't drop into the motor mount. If any one has tried this and succeeded and would care to offer some insight, it would be greatly appreciated. I have approx. 4" space on pass/side but -1" on the drivers side ....now where is the icon for banging your head on a brick wall when u need it?
Thanks so much,
JT

[TerryH]

Not sure if this would work in your case, but what if you remove the valve cover, poly over the head, and try to drop onto the motor mount. May give you the room you need. May also make it a ##@%$ to bolt the valve cover on though.

[eXodus]

I had a similar problem, not enough room.  I did remove the motor mounts from the frame and from the engine (was bolt on) - got the engine in, the engine sits at the frame (killed my drain pan btw) - jacked the engine up - remounted the engine mounts (with a lot of##@%$ to) got the engine on the mounts.

Since I don't know how your engine is fasted - just a best guess

[Lefty]

I was about to suggest the same,
First, remove the rubber motor mount from the drivers side. Then remove the metal mounting bracket on the frame on the drivers side. Install engine into bay and insert the right side mount bolt (leave hanging from hoist until later in these instructions). Install the transmission crossmember and mount. This will correctly position the engine so you should be able to bolt in the engine support bracket on the left, followed by the rubber mount. Finally, lower the engine with the hoist until you can insert the mounting bolt. Then unbolt the hoist and back it out of the way.
You should be able to remove and replace the valve cover with the engine firmly secured to the motor mounts... as removing motor mounts is not normally required in order to service valve covers or valve cover gaskets. Removing the drivers side cover may give you an additional 1/2" to 3/4" to work with... just be careful not to squish the exposed valvetrain into the firewall when lifting the engine.

[pvoth1111]

Is there 4 years between posts #16 and #17??? is this still under construction?

[Lefty]

Is there 4 years between posts #16 and #17??? is this still under construction?

I didn't catch that..lol  It appears it's closer to 5yrs... first post was in Dec. 2009!!! Guess he's not in any sorta rush 

[TerryH]

Is there 4 years between posts #16 and #17??? is this still under construction?

Good catch. I missed it completely.
Thanks
Terry

[Froggy1936]

Hi Johnny , It,s good to see you are back at it 5yrs later.  I dont think Chevrolet ever offered the big block in our models , When i updated my 350 t0 5.7 (same size engine) THe 1995 valve cover on the drivers side was hitting the doghouse flange . Had to pull it back out and sledge the edge flat that gave me about 1/2 in clearance (The 95 high and square valve covers as opposed to th 1977 low and more rounded covers ) Also i am useing the A/C P/S mounting bracket and compressor from a later V8 or V6 approx yr 2006 It stands the compressor straight up . See my project replaceing 3 speed  . I think you will have to modify the L/S dog house for that engine to fit  Frank