Using hydrogen generator to increase gas mileage

[Colin]

Sent: 7/27/2008

Does anyone have any ideas or opinions on the injection of HHO gas produced by water to increase gas mileage? My son has been experimenting making a reaction chamber to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water using positive and negative steel plates connected to the battery. He says that I should try it on the motor home. Is this for real?

Colin

[Oz]

Sent: 7/26/2008

Yes, it is for real.  The technology has been around since the 1950's, government sponsored of course so it hasn't been brought into the economic limelight since fossil fuel is a mega-money factory for the already filthy rich and they intend to bilk us for every penny until it's a matter of no other alternative... but that's another issue...

There has been much in the media lately about this due to the exhorbitant increase in gas prices.  More and more individuals are researching this option and finding that the technology is not difficult.   Anyone can build a hydrogen generator.

In fact, these so-called hybrid vehicles being produced by the the major auto manufacturers?  They're a farce to placate the general populace in so much that we will believe alternateive fuel technology is still in progress so those with substantial interest in the oil industry can still milk the cow while seemingly be taking the high road toward alternative fuels...

bull... we don't need fossile fuel gasoline at all... haven't for decades.  Not only can you use a hydrogen generator to augment your gasoline... you can actually run totally gasoline free on hydrogen.

That's all I'll say about it since the Fed wouldn't appreciate a large scale consumer knowledge that we don't need to be enslaved by their money mongerings, they can't control or make money off it in any way, it would reduce the oil kingdom to a land of paupers, and I don't want the MIB showing up at my door.

However... the technology is there.  It is real.  You can do it yourself and tell the oil magnates to suck dinosaur deposits, never needing to buy a single drop of gasoline again...

Those who know can do what they want with this or you can resource it yourself.

[Island_winnie]

Sent: 7/27/2008

Help me out here. It looks like you burn gasoline to run the motor to turn the alternator to make electricity to produce hydrogen to put back in the motor. Did I miss a step?
Jim

[olhillbilly31]

Sent: 7/28/2008

over on my chevy truck forums thier was a big debate over this.. got alot of info.. but with all the videos i saw on this idea, none of them were driving down the road.. every one was idling.. im interested in this myself.. but im not paying 80.00 for a quart mason jar with a couple of wires in it...

[ZR91]

Sent: 7/28/2008

And I quote :
   

Yes, it is for real.  The technology has been around since the 1950's, government sponsored of course so it hasn't been brought into the economic limelight since fossil fuel is a mega-money factory for the already filthy rich and they intend to bilk us for every penny until it's a matter of no other alternative... but that's another issue...

There has been much in the media lately about this due to the exhorbitant increase in gas prices.  More and more individuals are researching this option and finding that the technology is not difficult.   Anyone can build a hydrogen generator.

In fact, these so-called hybrid vehicles being produced by the the major auto manufacturers?  They're a farce to placate the general populace in so much that we will believe alternateive fuel technology is still in progress so those with substantial interest in the oil industry can still milk the cow while seemingly be taking the high road toward alternative fuels...

bull... we don't need fossile fuel gasoline at all... haven't for decades.  Not only can you use a hydrogen generator to augment your gasoline... you can actually run totally gasoline free on hydrogen.

That's all I'll say about it since the Fed wouldn't appreciate a large scale consumer knowledge that we don't need to be enslaved by their money mongerings, they can't control or make money off it in any way, it would reduce the oil kingdom to a land of paupers, and I don't want the MIB showing up at my door.

However... the technology is there.  It is real.  You can do it yourself and tell the oil magnates to suck dinosaur deposits, never needing to buy a single drop of gasoline again...

Those who know can do what they want with this or you can resource it yourself.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strong statements... provide facts to back this up.
I have tried (2) different Hydrogen setups on our motorhome with poor results.

By poor, I mean the first coil immersed setup boiled out the deionized water.  The second setup actually made our fuel economy decrease.  12.78 to 10.06, on the same highway-same weather conditions.

Have you actually tried this on YOUR motorhome?  If so, what were the scientific results? Before and after?

I think you need to to provide some factual information before and after comparisons before making such strong claims.

Jay

[ibdilbert01]

Sent: 7/28/2008

ZR91,

I agree totally with the ~ Phåråoh ~ on this one. I've done a lot of research on this myself over the years and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the entire oil market was nothing more than a conspiracy for the rich to get richer.

This idea of adding hydrogen to the gas vapor sounds promising, providing you gain more HP than that lost at the alternator for the electrical requirements.

Thomas Edison once said, "I have not failed 1,000 times. I have successfully discovered 1,000 ways to NOT make a light bulb."

By what I have read from you, you could say you have found only two ways not to implement a hydrogen generator.

------

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." - Albert Einstein

[ibdilbert01]

Sent: 7/28/2008

BTW,

"By poor, I mean the first coil immersed setup boiled out the deionized water."

I'm confused at this statement, who uses a coil to split hydrogen and oxygen? I would think it would just cause heat, and do exactly as you said, boil the water and give you nothing but water vapor, and that would give you poor gas mileage.

Some of the hydrogen generators I've seen use plates or probes, not a coil.

Wheres Jack when we need him? Hes an expert at this kind of stuff!

[ZR91]

Sent: 7/28/2008

Ibdilbert,

So you agree? How wonderful for you.  A million or so people also used to agree that the earth was flat. Did that make it flat?

This is not a question about the court of popular public opinion.

I am not trying to win a popularity contest.

Rather, I am lookinf for some FACTS, some EMPIRICAL data to prove that this can actually work, in one variation or another.
As I have alreday mentioned, I have indeed tried this in it's (2) most popular offerings at this point.
At the risk of sounding realistic, if ANYONE feels so strongly that this actually works-I would expect some real data to prove it !

Jay

[Oz]

Jay,

Interesting,   You went with the 2 most "popular" set-ups, but you didn't give any links to them or any info on them either.  Omitting that info, my guess is that you chose the 2 cheapest, most-popular set-ups, which is what made them so "popular" in the first place... and they were simply not true, working versions based on the actual process.  So, you got what you paid for and are pissed about it, and therefore, the entire theory is bogus.  However, now... the automotive market is actually producing prototype cars with the system as an augmentation and further developing cars which run on it entirely.  But, of course!  Since the whole idea is winning a popularity contest with the general public, the major automotive manufacturers sure as hell don't want to give the potential profits over to someone else in the private sector, and, If the major automotive companies can make them, then... huh... I guess it can actually be done.

Well, since you want "empirical" data, you'll get plenty of it very soon, from the members who have done the most research and have the most personal experience with it.  Both positive and negative.  The end result will only be seen as the technology develops, and since it is a plausible theory, it will develop.

[Island_winnie]

Sent: 7/28/2008

ZR91 sums it up here:

""This idea of adding hydrogen to the gas vapor sounds promising, providing you gain more HP than that lost at the alternator for the electrical requirements.""

If anyone can get more energy out than they put in to any system, I'd sure like to invest in their company. I do understand the chemistry, and I know better. Best we drop this as a scam.

Jim

[ontheroadagain]

Sent: 7/29/2008

Did you know every vehicle is already equiped with a hydrogen generator?
Its called a battery and when its being charged it produces hydrogen! So if you check out the "plans" most of them are just simple batteries. sorry to burst any bubbles (no pun intended) but its never going to replace gas yet , but maybe someday

[Clyde9]

Sent: 7/29/2008 11:55 AM

I would just like to add one thing to this post.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Stan+Meyer&search_type=

clyde9

ps. you may have to copy and paste it in your browser.


You are right ontheroadagain7, it is very much that simple.

[Clyde9]

Sent: 7/29/2008 12:37 PM

I think I will add one more thing. I am a broadcast engineer like the guy in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLj46OR_nA

copy and paste the link in your browser.
There are so many ways to produce hydrogen, it isn't even funny. The technology has been around since the 1700's. Those skeptics out there should take a simple chemistry course in your local college before claiming it to be a scam. I'm Jack Smith, I have 4 degrees, and i support this message!!

clyde9

[Clyde9]

Sent: 7/29/2008 2:17 PM

And Sadly, here is the result of Mr. Meyer's doing a good thing.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread209316/pg1

clyde9

[Oz]

Sent: 7/29/2008

For more information, scientific research reports, and empirical data, as well as finding out what happened to the originator of this info, Google:  Stan Meyers.

Lots of very interesting info.

[Oz]

Sent: 7/29/2008

Here's an interesting forum following the story, be sure to read as much as you can:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread209316/pg1

[Clyde9]

Sent: 7/29/2008

here is another link to Wikipedia, concerning fuel cells.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

[moparmotivator]

Sent: 8/9/2008

On diesels, commercial setups have been around for years for over the road fleets with mileage increases in the 3-5% range.
I personally know of one setup on a 5.0 F150 (fuel injected) that went from 16-17 to 20+ on his normal sales route.

I have not seen anything yet on carbed vehicles.  No way to adjust the fuel ratio to compensate for the hydrogen enrichment so I don't know if it would not just create an overally rich mix if enough extra air was not introduced with the hydrogen.

My vote is for 11.5 to 1 compression and run propane.  Fuel does not go bad, about half the cost, burns clean and not far from being a CNG compatible system from the regulator forward.

[mightybooboo]

Sent: 8/10/2008

A friend of George Norrie on Coast to Coast AM has been experimenting with this.  His results...
He has decreased mileage.

FWIW, they are going to cont. to work with it.

BooBoo

[Cooneytoones]

Sent: 8/10/2008

http://savegasusewater.com/

I know a few people that have converted, they say it works.
You have to change your MAPP censer. I'm going to try it on my S10.

Timmy

[wizardbill]

This is a topic that I am very familiar with. I have been researching it for about a year now.  I have seen many things and I know what I am going to do now, regarding HHO (Brown's) gas.  I had a buddy who ran his Volvo 240 DL diesel on straight water.  The problem that he had was he did not create enough gas to run.  He could not get the RPM's up high enough to go very fast.  When I looked at his setup, I noticed two advantages that George has over his Volvo.  One is that I have way more room under the hood.  I am moving the battery over in front of the heating element on the front passenger side so that I can add my hydrogen generator in front of the radiator.  For this, I am not going to use a Mason Jar that he used.  I am going to use a 5 gallon fishtank.

Seems odd?  Well, I will explain a bit further.  I am going to divide the tank into three separate compartments.  I have already cut the lid, and two pieces to divide the tank into three parts.  I am using Amazing Goop brand sealant to put these pieces into the tank and securing the lid.  Each of the three sections will have electrodes going into them to a stainless steel twisted pair wire that is securely wrapped around rectangle plexiglass pieces. 

Now, I have my tank.  How am I going to create enough gas?  Well, when I was replacing George's alternator from the PO fiasco, I noticed that on the pulley setup there was an extra pulley that was doing nothing.  There was no belt on it.  So, I am creating metal brackets to hold another alternator.  So, my original (regular) alternator is doing its job of running the electrical systems and charging the battery.  This new alternator is only being used for the six electrodes that are going to my three sections of my tank to the stainless steel wires.  When you send current through a metal spiral, this is electrolysis of water.  This will create hydrogen gas (H2) and oxygen gas (O2).

Now, on my tank, all my compartments are going to have hoses with check (one way) valves on them so the gases cannot come back into my tank apparatus.  These gases, being lighter than air (the hydrogen is, anyway) will travel up these tubes which lead directly to the butterfly valve on the carburetor.

The final piece is on top of the carburetor is a Tornado air flow apparatus that forces the air down into the carburetor to be consumed on the spark of the motor.

I have no idea what to expect as far as MPG and performance, but, I will be playing with the mixture until I get it right. 

THAT is my biggest project with George right now.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

I did a lot of research on a system that would actually work on a 454 since we go on such long trips, and it doesn't seem cost effective even for us and the high mileage we rack up.  A usable system would cost about 1200.00 to start...yeah you can go homemade, but the amount of hydrogen you have to use for a big block necessitates a premade system that will endure and hold up to constant use.  Then you need to install another alternator just to run the HHO system since even a high output alternator can't run your coach and your HHO genny...not enough amps.  So now you are talking about 1500.00, plus the cost of distilled water and potassium hydroxide, which needs to be changed out frequently.

If you spend this much and get it all dialed in a perfect, the most of a gain you can hope for is 20%, and a more realistic number would be 10%.  So at 7mpg, a 20% gain in efficiency brings your gas mileage to 8.4 mpg, and a 10% gain would bring your gas mileage to 7.7. 

You would have to drive a LOT of miles, more than we do, to justify and pay for the system with the fuel saved...and by then, the system and plates are worn out and you have to replace the plates etc.  They don't last forever.

Add to that the aggravation of yet another system to maintain and monitor, and to us it seems a total waste of time and money. 

I'm sceptical to say the least, and we are always trying to find ways to save dollars on long trips.  I'd rather invest my money in those little triangle thingies that truck drivers use to stop turbulance...I think it was Froggy who added them to his rig?  You'll get about the same gain in fuel economy, they cost a lot less, and you don't need to maintain them.

Kev

[wizardbill]

Kev,

I completely understand your skepticism.  I held the same dubiety myself.  However, I have so far, spent about $240.00 to get my system installed.  I will be getting pictures posted after all the rain stops.  And, the volume of H2 gas I am collecting should give me a 50% increase in mileage.

First, though:  Who is selling you  something for $1,200.00?  I cannot even seem to find a system that expensive.  And, since the technology is simple, the homemade variety is one that I can tweak to fit my needs.

As for the distilled water, I am not going to use distilled water.  That is something I wondered about from the beginning.  With the electrolysis, you are trying to create ions from the H2O.  Why would you use distilled water?  I am going to use salt water, as it readily precipitates the formation of ions from the saltwater solution with a low amp current.

I figured to be using only a 2 amp circuit to create my gas in three separate compartments.  This way I will be maximizing my hydrogen creation with little cost on the system.

My goal is 25 mpg with George.  I will post the results so everyone can see if it works.  I will also be posting the pictures so everyone can see how I did it.  (The cost of $200.00 does not include the additional belt and additional alternator)

As far as:  " I'd rather invest my money in those little triangle thingies that truck drivers use to stop turbulance...I think it was Froggy who added them to his rig?  You'll get about the same gain in fuel economy, they cost a lot less, and you don't need to maintain them."

Do both?

Bill

[wizardbill]

Quick update.  During installation, after moving the battery over, and installing the new floor to hold the battery on, then, I was installing the fishtank.  THEN (a little late, but, nonetheless) I was thinking...  How am I going to remove the top to change the water, add the KOH, redo the stainless steel wires, clean the apparatus...  Well, I figured out I cannot, if I seal the lid on...  So, back to the drawing board, but I will keep ya updated.

[mike roy]

to all, I have built a wood gasifier and ran a tractor on wood smoke by down drafting the smoke through the fire itself, this process takes the smoke( which is moisture and carbon, splits the moisture into three gases hydrogen, oxygen, and carbonmonoxide). By filtering the gases, which now have disassociated polarity due to the intense heat and lack of oxygen in the process of gasifing, you can mix the gases with outside air induce them to your motor and it will run. (FEMA has plans on their website for a wood gasifier) I built a wet cell hydrogen generator and with some fine-tuning was able to start and run my Dakota pickup with the fuel-pump relay in my pocket! the best application I have seen is using a hydrogen drycell as can be viewed on you-tube, type in hydrogen drycell and learn! We as a people are just beginning to get our heads out of the sand and realizing there are options, we just have to get over our fears and our apathy and learn the other ways. I am a machinist, an engineer, and an inventor, and a farm-boy! yes we can!