Engine won't start after it's warm

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: SmallDiscoveries1  (Original Message)
Sent: 11/30/2005 3:57 PM

Grumpy doesn't want to start when it has been running for a while. That is, if I was to drive it a few miles and get it up to operating temperature, then shut it off, it won't restart. It acts like the starter is weak or there is high compression in the engine. Once it cools down a bit, 15 or 20 minutes, it will start.

Thinking about it, there could be a short because the battery (new) doesn't want to stay up. The alternator is also new.

I bought a heat shield for the starter but have not installed it yet. It is one of those silver thermal blanket things. Maybe my starter needs replaced, just about everything else has been.



From: denison
Sent: 11/30/2005 4:17 PM

Wild guesses division: This has happened to me when the ignition timing was too far advanced. Each cylinder would fire well before t.d.c. and really slow the cranking speed. You could check that the centrifiugal advance wasnt sticking, by wiggling the rotor, and seeing if it will twist about 7 degrees counter clockwise and spring back completely. It could be that after 15 or 20 minutes the centrifugal advance has settled down.
Another cause of similar symptoms could be a bad ignition resistor, and even gasoline boiling in the carburetor. This would not be likely to happen so much in cool weather though.
If your starter has been baked by heat from the exhaust manifold I guess it could cause this symptom. I think it comes from the grease in the bearings melting and spattering onto the commutator - interfering with the brushes passing the couple of hundred amps needed.



From: Easybago
Sent: 11/30/2005 4:17 PM

Your problem may not be the same as mine was, but your symptoms are exactly as mine. It would start just fine when cold, but soon as it heated up, the starter would barely turn over just once and quit. I replaced my starter, which was surprisingly easy, and haven't had a problem since.



From: dogluvr46
Sent: 12/2/2005 9:10 PM

Sounds to me like your starter is the culprit. I managed an electric motor shop for many years, and saw this many times. What happens is that the rear BUSHING, ( not a BEARING) will wear, and become sloppy. When cold, it will turn ok. When hot, it will expand, allowing slop between commutator shaft and bushing.. When you throw the juice to the starter, the  commutator will cock to one side as there is one stronger point on it (mainly because of age) .This causes it to try and lock up, and in severe cases the commutator will actually rub on the fields. Throw a different starter in, or replace the REAR bushing if yours is otherwise ok and you should be in like Flint........Dog                P.S., then get Ole Ed  to say commutater real fast three times. Should be worth the price of a new starter.



From: OldEdBrady
Sent: 12/2/2005 9:23 PM

Now, saying "commutator" may not be a problem.  Typing it, however, I will manage to come up with 12 different spellings in only 3 tries.



From: jbmhotmail
Sent: 12/5/2005 11:42 PM

Not sure if the chevy hot start problem would apply to dodge, check out this article and see what you think.
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0312_hot/
article title: "Curing those hot no-start blues"
Jerry



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 12/6/2005 8:06 PM

I've heard of heard of this problem before, Denison may be correct on the advance of the timing....but first I would check the starter....put up some type of heat sheild between the exaust and the starter....yhey make one for the starter but I can't remember where I saw it...possibly JC Whitney...but the windings in the starter motor get too hot due to the exaust and will cause your problem....I had the same problem with a 1969 GTO.....added a heat sheild plate between exaust and starter and the problem never happened again.....These good old 440-3 ran extremly hot and Dodge did not put enough sheilding on them at the beginning of time....They should have put the exaust pipes inside, triple wall chimney pipe....LOL

Timmy



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 12/6/2005 8:14 PM

Here's the reson.........Heat builds up electrical resistance, and exhaust systems are all about high temperatures. When you turn the ignition key to start a hot engine, the electrical voltage encounters major resistance and cannot activate the solenoid that has been basking in exhaust and engine heat.
This happens because the large solenoid on the starter pulls 40 to 50 amps at the moment the ignition key is turned to the Start position. That large amount of power must flow through a long circuit from the battery to the dash area, back through the under wiring, and finally to the starter. Sounds like quite a job, doesn't it?........Fix for the Dodge's, a simple heat sheild between starter and the exaust pipe.

Timmy



From: denison
Sent: 12/8/2005 1:16 PM

   As far as I can tell, all of the starters for the 440s and 413s in the motorhomes came with heat shields between the starter and exhaust manifolds.  The heat shields might have rusted and fallen off, OR if you have replaced a starter yourself, you can understand why a mechanic might just do without the shield.  They can be  time consuming to get back in place.  On my 413, the heat shield had to be installed at the same time as the starter, but not yet clamped to it.



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 12/9/2005 6:18 AM

There was not a starter heat sheild on mine..(440-3)...Might be MIA...PO did some mind boggling things on it when it came to repair. I can't see where it was attached....had to make one....The heat sheid for the manifold is there, but, at the bend of the left side pipe next to the starter, there was just 2 inches (or less) of air between the pipe and the starter.

Timmy