Replacing Mor-Ryde Rear Rubber Shear Springs.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Since our coach has a trailing axle that uses rubber shear springs, and because of its age, they are pretty dry rotted and delaminating from the metal plates that you bolt them to the suspension with.  I contacted Mor-Ryde, and they still make them, so I ordered them...there are 2 per side, and 150 bucks each...OUCH!!!  Anyhow, that is this week's project, so I'll let you know how it goes.  I bought all new grade 8 hardware for them, so I won't have to struggle with reusing rusted nuts and bolts.  The neat thing about this suspension, besides its really good ride, is that you can adjust the ride height by relocating the the shear springs into different mounting holes.  So when I do the job I'm going to set it to maximum hight, since we travel with a lot of weight...its only 2 inches difference, but with the new front airbags, it should level us right out under load and make our travels even more enjoyable and smoother.  I'll add to this post as the job progresses.

Kev

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Is your tag axle hydraulic or electric brake?
You might find this thread of interest http://www.irv2.com/forums/f65/hydraulic-tag-axle-brake-information-101083.html

Dave

[HandyDan]

I'm so glad you put a price on those.  I have been contemplating doing the same thing on my Holiday Rambler.  I knew they still supported them but I was afraid to inquire about the price.  I actually thought they would be more but they are still quite a bite.  I will be anxiously following your installation.  It doesn't look too complicated but there is some heavy work involved. 

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Thanks for the info, Dave!  They are hydraulic and seem to be operating just fine.  I replaced the front and rear brake pads last year but skipped the rear drum shoes since Mor-Ryde told me they were no longer available and they would have to be relined.  In the sight window there was still plenty of material left, so I left them alone.

Kev

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Mor-Ryde only makes the suspension pieces.  The axle and brakes are normally Dextor axle and brakes.  There are 2 hydraulic types.  Welded wheel cylinder and bolt on.  I address that in that post.

Dave 

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Yep.  Mor-Ryde told me Dexter didn't make the shoes anymore and they would have to be relined.

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

God gods!  This is probably the most challenging mechanical project I even underwent, but one side is done!  I decided to tackle the drivers side first and it took me all day.  It was dark by the time I put on the last allen bolt that holds on the wheel covers.

Today its the passenger side, once it warms up a bit. 

So here is the deal on replacing these things.  First of all, it might be easier if you are able to follow the instructions to the letter, which begins with a hard level surface, jacking up the whole back of the RV, and being able to remove all the wheels with the suspension hanging unsupported and the actual frame of the RV on the jackstands.  But I'm on unlevel soft campground dirt, and I don't have 4 foot tall jackstands.  So I could only do one side at a time safely, supporting the one side on 2 jackstands strategically placed to minimize the load on the shear springs. 

Now, to the nitty gritty that made it so hard.

While it looks pretty straightforward in the instructions and diagrams, they show just the suspension components, not how boxed in it is by Holiday Rambler.  There are all kinds of supports and thick sheetmetal walls that are part of the body of the rig that ALMOST completely encapsulate the upper inner bolts.  Fortunately the original installation was apparently modified by HRC, or by Mor-Ryde for HRC, because the outer upper bolts, which you simply couldn't reach, are missing.  Instead, the outer upper part of the spring slips into a heavy duty thick steel sleeve welded to the frame....you can see it, but you can't reach it for anything.

Which brings me to the next thing that made this so difficult....clearance!  I have big hands and wrists, and can barely get my hand through the opening...just one opening mind you...which is the only access to the upper inner bolts.  Its a good thing I have long fingers!  And don't drop your wrench in the adjustable crossmember...its deep enough to eat your tools, and does NOT open up at the bottom...the axle goes right through it, so its not hollow all the way through like one would thing.  Even the couple of nuts I dropped didn't fall out the bottom.  I was lucky enough not to drop the tools.  The passenger side should be easier since I'm right handed.  I could only get my left hand in the access area on the driver's side.

I almost gave up and said screw it, since the shear springs on the rig were still within specs, and probably have at least 5 more years in them...but no...I'm a member here, and we can do anything!  Plus I blew 600 bucks on the new springs, which I doubt are refundable...lol!

Okay, so back to the project.  I removed the upper inner bolts on both springs.  Took a while and was like working on the tiniest japanese car you ever worked on, but I managed it.  The lower bolts were comparatively easy, so I decided to do just one spring at a time, and I'm glad I did!  I did the rear one first, since the bolts are harder to get to.  As soon as I removed the last bolt, BOING!!!  The cross arm dropped, thankfully still mostly supported by the front shear spring, and that's when I discovered that you had to leave a bottle jack under the frame just behind the rear shear spring to minimize that...so I jacked it up and it was almost realigned.

Now I had to remove it....

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

It only comes out by sliding down and out...but you can't really slide it outward, since the aforementioned body parts are in the way.  And it was still somewhat under load and the outer plates were a bit rusty.  I tried and I tried...hammers, pipes, cuss words....nada.  Finally I managed to get a big pipe between the rubber in the middle of the spring, and a section of frame...like a russian power lifter I deadlifted it, and it finally budged...and a little more....and then was finally loose enough to remove by wiggling forcefully back and forth while pulling it downward. 

It was out...yay!

I now decided to install the new spring in its place before removing the other shear spring, since it seemed to be the only thing keeping the cross arm from dropping down and really making it hard to align the bolt holes on the new spring.  Good thing too!  That's exactly what would have happened, and I was all out of jacks!  So, first things first, and I got the new spring started.  NOTE:  The new springs are redesigned and only bear a passing resemblance to the originals....they are one solid spring, vulcanized in the middle to a steel plate, instead of bolting together in two peices like the originals, and the end plates are a thinner...the bolt holes line up, but they are way narrower, and you have to make sure that you get them lined up before you jack up the spring into place...I had to lower it and realign it a few times to get the first one right, and knock it around with a hammer and 2x4 peice to get it just right.  Once I finally had the outer upper spring in the frame slot....the one I told you about that replaces the upper outer bolts, and the lower outer holes aligned, I installed new grade 8 bolts and locktite and snugged them down.  Then I had to get the inner lower bolt holes aligned.  My smaller bottle jack did the trick, along with tapping it with the 2x4 and hammer.  FINALLY the lower inner bolts were aligned, the new bolts and nuts and locktite went it, and it was time for the front spring.  I decided to save the upper inner bolts on both springs for last.

Same thing...I unbolted the inner and outer lower bolts, and BOING, the arm dropped, but not as bad this time since I left the big bottle jack where it was supporting the frame.  This time the spring came right out, just a little wiggling, but there is way more clearance for the front spring, which is why I did the rear first.  Using the tricks learned from the back spring, it only took an hour... ...to get the front spring aligned.  I bolted up the lower outer bolts first, then used the bottle jack and some taps of the hammer on the 2x4 to line up the inner lower bolts, and now all that was left was to reinstall the upper inner bolts.   It was starting to get dark and cold, but onward and forward rode the dummass...lol!

Using my very bright led headlamp, which fit nicely through one little are where you can see through to see the upper bolts, I pushed the new upper bolts through the holes and thanked the engineering gods at Mor-Ryde for drilling so precisely...they went right in.  Now it was time for the nuts...thanking the gods again for long fingers, I dripped locktite on the threads, and was VERY lucky...the nuts went right on, and I didn't drop any of the 4.  So, moving a little at a time with my wrench on the outside, and my socket on the inside, hoping I wouldn't drop it into the top tube of doom, I managed to tighten them up.

About the locktite...I decided to use it mostly because the springs are supposed to just be held on with nuts and bolts...no lock nuts, no lock washers...just nuts.  And I didn't want them to fall off.  The second reason was because there isn't a torque wrench made that can reach those bolts and nuts, especially the upper bolts.  They only have to be torqued to 35, so I guessed on the top ones...probably a little tighter than spec, but its grade 8 bolts and I'm not worried about them.

Then it was time to clean up, and it was past 6pm and getting colder and darker.  Up went the bottle jack, out came the jackstands, and then the drive wheels went back on.  The instructions call for leaving the rear trailing axle wheel on during the job.  Another reason I did the driver's side first is that there is a tree and its roots in the way of the drive wheels, so I had to jack this side up extra high to get the wheels off and on.  The wheels went on, the ring went on, the lugs went on, and then I lowered her down and removed the jack.  Next was the wheel simulators and whatnot, and then all the tools and jacks and jackstands were laid out on the opposite side of the rig for today's workload.  Yay!

Now it was dark, and I ended the day with a few beers around the campfire.

Now I get to do it again on the passenger side, and its just about warm enough now to get to work.

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

By the way, I didn't raise or lower the position of the cross tube...that would mean removing both springs from both sides at once, and I simply don't have the tools, terrain, or jackstands to do that right now, but its something I can do in the future if I decide to.  She rides about level now with the new front airbags...she always rode higher in the back when the front airbags were shot.

And if anyone really wants the old shear springs, which realistically have at least 5 years left in them, you can have them for free if you pay the shipping...they are pretty heavy, so they would probably cost about 40 bucks to ship.

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Okay...belay my last about the old rubber shear springs being any good...they are toast.  When I removed the rear one from the passenger side, and it did its expected BOING, the cross bar shifted significantly, and moved backwards, stretching the front spring...and stretched, you could see just how deep the delam and cracks were...scary!!!

Because it shifted back so far, I couldn't get the rear one in for anything.  So, off to Northern Tool six miles away, and I came back with 2 HUGE Irwin C-Clamps, all heavy steel, and very carefully and slowly...it was slow because of the amount of torsion required to bring the cross bar back (forward) and compress the old spring!...Finally I got it back to where it was supposed to be, and completely aligned and bolted in the new shear spring before releasing the clamps.  Thats when it dawned on that if I had used clamps to hold the spring opposite to the spring I was replacing, it would have made the whole job SO much easier!

So I put the clamp on the new spring that I just replaced and tightened it down enough to compress it BEFORE unbolting the other old spring...it went BOING, but only because the lower part moved downward...there was no shift this time of the cross bar...yay!  The other spring came out with a big lever and a lot of wiggling, and the new spring went it with the least amount of effort so far.  Then the bolts and locktite, and voila...new shear springs all around!

I removed the clamp, jacked up the rig, removed the jackstands, reinstalled the wheels, lugs, and whatnot, and was quite happy that beast of a job was finished!  Again, even with one side under my belt, I still wasn't completely done until almost 6pm...NOT a fun job!   In fact, it was probably the most difficult and challenging mechanical project I ever undertook. 

But it is doable, even one side at a time.  If you do decide to do it, remember, you have to go buy at least one huge C-Clamp, and I mean huge!  Use it to compress whatever spring you are not removing on a given side before removing the spring you are working on, and use it to compress the new spring once installed before you remove the second spring on that side.  It makes getting the spring out and in a LOT easier, and keeps the cross bar from shifting, which helps keep your bolt holes aligned better and easier to move the spring a bit to line them up.  The drivers side didn't shift much, but that was just luck I think...lol!

And one last tool that I'm going to ask Santa for that would have made it way easier are ratcheting wrenches...you don't have lot of room to turn wrenches on the top bolts, and a good quality ratcheting wrench would have made it way faster and easier.

So today I get to move the rig forward back up on its leveling blocks, bring the awning back down, tighten its springs...which with a center arm/leg is easy, by the way...I'll make a post later on how to do it safely with the arms still attached...and set my porch back up.

Then I have to get all my catapult parts cut out and drilled and sanded today, since I'm now a day behind work schedule, and then go pick up my new golf cart batteries tonight.  Yay!

Kev

[HandyDan]

Could you post some pictures of your setup?  I'm curious how different your Mor-Ryde is from mine.  Does yours look like this:

or this:

[HandyDan]

After reading your description of the inner upper bolts and the "tube of doom" I went out and checked out my springs.  I see what you mean about how hard they are to get out and in.  I'm not sure I can do it.  I see where ratcheting wrenches would come in handy but if you drop anything, it better be something a magnet will pick up.  Mine are like the bottom picture so I have four to deal with on both sides and they are definitely in need of replacement. 

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Hey Dan.  Mine are just like the lower picture.  Right down to the number on the side.  At least the old ones.  The new ones don't have the numbers, and they are bonded now in the middle, instead of two smaller springs bolted together...so at least its less bolts to undo, and its only 2 per side for replacement purposes.  Don't even bother unbolting the springs from each other.  Treat them like one spring, just like the new ones.  I'll post some pics when I can.

So looking at your picture, you'd want to start with a back spring, and put the big heavy clamp on the front spring TIGHT, and compress it.  You won't be able to compress it much, but it will keep the cross tube from moving and make removing the spring you are working on a lot easier.  Grease the threads on the clamp and it will tighted under torsion a lot better.  You put the clamp in through the bottom of the cross tube, between the bolts, and the swiveling head of the clamp's threaded rod on the outside of the outer plate, right between the lower outer bolts.  Install and completely bolt in the new spring BEFORE removing the clamp, and then immediately clamp the new spring and compress it, before attacking the front spring on that side.

You can do it, since I've blazed the trail and figured out what NOT to do...I have huge wrists and forearms, and I managed it.  The bolts aren't all that tight, and spraying them with PBBlaster will help a lot.

It is a beast of a job, but its doable, even one side at a time.  Just be prepared to set aside a whole day per side to do the job, and be patient.  Oh, and because you can only really clamp the lower part of the spring, the angle changes a bit, and its hard to get the upper outer part of the spring to slide into the slot...use a smaller clamp from the top and pull it towards the slot before using your bottle jack to move the spring up into the slot.  It makes it fast and easy...relatively speaking.

And you'll definately want at least one good 9/16th wratcheting wrench...it will stop a lot of cuss words...lol!

I didn't do it and was lucky, but one the things we used to do in the Navy on submarines was to always tie a lanyard to our tools...there are a lot of places where you can loose a tool on a sub, and if you are running silent, you don't want a wrench to drop down a hole and clank and clatter on the metal body of the sub revealing your position.  You can tie the other end of the lanyard to your wrist, or to a part of the frame near where you are working.  Then if you drop it, all you have to do is pull it out with the lanyard.

Good luck, and let me know when you start the job.  I'll walk you through it more precisely.

Kev

[HandyDan]

Thanks for the info.  I think I am going to wait until spring to start on it but I'm going to order the parts right after the Christmas bills, taxes, and insurance are paid.  LOL   We had quite a discussion on RV.net about the Mor-Ryde problems a couple of years back.  The whole 87 pages of the thread are interesting reading, but the suspension topics are on pages 46-50.  If you're interested here is the website: 
http://www.rv.net/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/23338669/srt/pa/pging/1/page/46.cfm

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Very interesting read, Dan!  That is the first time I ever read any articles on RV.net.  A little chaotic and not nearly as well moderated as this site though.  In the same thread there was everything from installing antenna domes, radiators, ceilings, microwaves, and of course the Mor-Ryde data.  That Mor-Ryde rep is the same one I talked to on the phone, and he knew exactly what variation of the suspension I had based on the model and year of our coach.  Everything is available, even if it has to made to order....that is support!  Seem like good folks over there at MorRyde. 

Shocks are in the future, and 2...thankfully only 2...big rubber bushings seem to be worn, but not too terribly...something else to replace in the future maybe.

Thanks again Dan!

Kev

[HandyDan]

These catapults have piqued my curiosity.  I checked out your Photobucket albums but didn't see any.  Could you post a picture of one? 

[ClydesdaleKevin]

LOL Dan!  Just checkout our website.  Mark put a banner on here for us, Siege The Day.  Its on the bottom of the home page.   That's us. 

Kev

[fasteddie313]

Could you post some pictures of your setup?  I'm curious how different your Mor-Ryde is from mine.  Does yours look like this:

or this:

Man I wish that top pic worked.. Mine don't look like the bottom pic, they look like this..


I guess the difference is its a couple years older? The 84 and 89 you guys have are both the bottom pic ones if I understand correctly and this is an 81 and seems to be different..

They look a bit smaller and less complex so hopefully cheaper..

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Does yours have a tag axle?  Looks like you have less springs per side, so it might be cheaper for you for replacements.  Contact MorRyde...they are extremely helpful, although they did send us the wrong springs the first time, and I had THEM install the correct springs, under warranty, the second time.  I was NOT going to do that job again!  Hardest mechanical job I ever did.

Kev

[fasteddie313]

Yes it has the tag.
Does yours have dualies on the drive axle and singles on the tag like mine does? I have 6 rear tires..


Just got off the phone with the seller, cash in hand, going to pick it up in a couple hours.
Wish me luck that it makes the 40 mile run in an uneventful fashion, aint gonna lie I'm pretty excited..

[HandyDan]

I forgot to ask, but does it have the propane, dual fuel option?  You will know if there is a switch right in the middle of the dash for propane or gasoline.  Many HR's of this era had it. 
Dan

Nevermind, I just looked at the picture of your dash and you don't have it.  That is a good thing, because the propane installation involves a LOT of hoses, switches, cut-offs, and heaters. and a different air cleaner. 

[fasteddie313]

It does have a massive lp tank...

Got a spare in my truck from the junkyard, jack, air compressor, tools up the a**, on my way out..

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Good luck!  And yep...mine has duals on the drive axle, and singles on the tag.

Kev

[lngfish]

Kev,

What a great read!

You know my 30 foot Alumilite does not have that rear axle so I did not read the write up entirely.

However, I really enjoyed reading the comment when you wrote:

                                                "Heck I'm a Member here, I can do anything!"

""Then I smiled"",

Then I pictured you happily driving down the road "one handed" commenting one hand is still back there looking for a wrench.

GREAT JOB and 2 Hands to prove it!

Joking of course.

Steve

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Thanks Steve!  The best part of the story was that I did all that work, and it turned out that MorRyde sent me the wrong springs, so I was sitting even lower than before replacement.  And I was NOT going to do that job twice!  So I drove it to Elkhart, IA right to MorRyde, and they replaced them free of charge, gave us 3 days of free camping, and only charged me an additional 150.00 in labor for raising the cross bar to its highest ride setting.  That said, the wrong springs caused the new shocks to beat the crap out of the metal spring boxes (a different part), and they started to crack and fail.  Before I could get a straight answer from MorRyde about replacing them, I removed them myself, took them to a welding shop, had them reenforced, and had the lower shock mounts extended and reenforced.  Rides perfect now!  Like a champ!  Except one of the new front airbags failed...so I'll be replacing it shortly...lol!

Kev