Advice on PowerMax Boondocker PM3B power converters

[ClydesdaleKevin]

I'm going to leave the heavy guage wires alone I think.  I took a closer look at the converter today, since I was doing ABSOLUTELY nothing else all day long, and what is in there now is definately the 40 amp model, humming loudly and running pretty darn hot...this old model doesn't even have a cooling fan.  The guage of the wire looks to be at least a 4 guage, but rewiring it would be a logistical nightmare.  Its on one side of the coach near the back, along with the rest of the power center, and the batteries are on the opposite side of the coach, around midships.  Pretty sure the engineers that designed this thing back then went overkill on the guage size because of the distance.  HRC used to be one darn fine rig, super well engineered and usually overengineered.  The Holiday Ramblers of today are just a Monoco with a different name, and Monocos are crap.

And quite happily, I read the PM3B manual, and it appears that it only draws out the amps from the shore power as they are needed, self limiting and all that.  I think I made the right call going with the 100 amp model.

Now if I go with a lot of solar panels on the roof next year and add 2 more batteries to the bank, the converter will be able to keep up with the whole shebang, especially with the solar panels helping charge the bank.

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Oh yeah...as always, if anyone needs the old converter, which still works fine but isn't adequate for our boondocking needs and large battery bank, it is up for grabs for free to anyone who needs it.  Just let me know and we'll figure out how much it will take to ship it.  I'll be installing the new one probably before the weekend, so the old one will be available then.

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Wooohooo!  The new converter arrived a day early!  It was supposed to come in today, but came it yesterday afternoon, so I'll be installing it today.  BestConverters ships fast!

Kev

[RedneckExpress]

Woot!

[ClydesdaleKevin]

All installed!  Installation was pretty easy, although getting the old one out, which was way taller, required unscrewing the supports for the 12 volt fuse panel and moving it out of the way.  The Boondocker is a lot shorter and would have went in without taking anything off or out of the way.

So, before I installed the new one, I tested the voltage at the old one's leads...with just a couple of lights on, and the batteries freshly charged from the external charger the night before.  And it was only putting out 10.4 volts...so yeah, I think its broken, so I'll take down the other post about a free converter.

After installing the new one, I checked the voltage...13.2 volts...went right to float mode since the batteries were already charged.  So, I decided to load it up and see if it could handle it.  I turned on EVERY light in the house, the porch light, the furnace fan, both roof vent fans on high, the water pump, the stove fan, the inverter, every 12 volt item in the house I could think of, and there are a lot of them!  Voltage read 13.6 volts!  Woohoo!  I left it all on for a while, and yep, still reading 13.6 volts.  The only thing that happened after about a half hour with everything on is that the little cooling fan kicked on, and it was so quiet you could only tell it was on by the feel of the air being blown.  It felt cool, and MAN is this thing quiet!  No hum, nothing.  I turned everything off, and it still read 13.6.  After about a half hour I checked it again, and it was back down to 13.2 volts.  And the led on my solar controller turned green for the first time by itself, without the external charger, since putting in the new battery banks.   

Both of my old RVs, and this one with the old converter, always had the background white noise of a humming transformer coming from one cabinet or another.  This thing is dead quiet.  Gotta get used to the lack of white noise now...lol!

Thanks everyone for steering me in the right direction!  I'll let you know when we leave Louisiana in a couple of weeks how she does with battery charging when we start boondocking and draining the batteries down.

Sweet!

Kev

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Test complete, No Faults Detected (NFD).   

Gotta love it when it all comes together!

While crawling around the web I cam across a portion of the WInnebago site that has a bunch of RV user tips (http://www.winnebagoind.com/resources/service/servicetips.php).  One of them is about general generator usage but also includes a nice little table on page 4 about normal AC amp ratings for various components.
http://www.winnebagoind.com/resources/service/pdfs/1999-10%20Generators.pdf
That is a handy piece of information to have when trying to determine just how much freedom you have when connected to shore power.

Now for those of you that just must have more POWER from a BIG battery bank, then on page 4 of this here document is a handy chart used to compute just how many AmpHr's you eating up from the battery by that hungry inverter!   
http://www.winnebagoind.com/resources/service/pdfs/2002-07%20Freedom%20Power%20Inverter.pdf

Here is a pdf format of the AH calculation stuff I was yapping about in previous posts:
http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/pdf/TRJN0168_BattSizeGuideFL.pdf


Of course, you will need typical DC Load AH values to fill in those blanks.
http://www.rv-boondocking-adventure.com/dc-current-usage-chart.html

Now go forth and calculate   

Dave

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Thanks Dave!

Okay, so the fan isn't as quiet on these things as I thought...I must have been imagining it was running before.  So, every once in a while, usually when wifey is running a lot of lights, which we can right now being hooked up to shore power and all, it cycles on...and sounds like my wife's blow dryer.  Only stays on for a little while though, and not very often.

So far so good!

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

I just noticed last night that my voltage was down to 12.4...it usually reads 13.2 on shore power.  I checked the fuses, and they were fine.  Voltage going to the Powermax Boondocker is 120 AC, and its fine.  Coming out its only reading 12.2-12.4 or so at night...no solar in the equation...and that is more than likely just backfeed voltage from the batteries.

So my inverter stopped working, and we just got it!  I won't have time until Monday to see if we are running on just battery power, or if the converter is providing 12 volts, but no charging voltage.  I think the whole thing pooped the bed since I haven't heard the cooling fan come on since I noticed the voltage drop.

I'm really hoping they are good about honoring their warranty, and also, since its mail order, how they are going to handle it at Best Converters.  Will they send me one, and then let me send the broken one back...since we fulltime it and we sort of need it now...or do I have to send the old one back in first, or what.  If that is the case, I'll have to buy a new one and have them send it so I can install it, and THEN send the old one back.

This is really frustrating since we just bought the thing, it came highly recommended, and even on the Best Converters website they said they were reliable and they have never had one returned.  Its just my luck that I bought the only lemon, eh?

We'll have to see what they say.  Either way its a bloody inconvenient time for me to have to play with something that I just bought new.  Good thing I have the external charger!  I'll have to put the batteries on charge tomorrow so they don't get too low...and I'll check the wiring to make sure nothing came dislodged, but we have been parked for a while and the Boondocker just took a nose dive.

Good thing I held off on my product review!  I like to use something for at least a year before I give it a thumbs up or down.  How they handle the warranty is going to determine which way the thumb goes...lol. 

Kev

[RedneckExpress]

Kev, as I recall you were trying to use both chargers at the same time a while back. It's possible you may have damaged the unit when you were doing that as most stand alone chargers do not put out filtered power. 

You said you checked the fuses, I'm assuming you're referring to the backwards wiring protection fuses on the charger itself. 

Disconnect the unit from your batteries and from 120 volts and let it sit for a bit, then check the output voltage with a voltage meter if it's not producing any power, recheck the safety fuses by completely replacing them and then if it still doesn't work, contact Randy and he'll fix ya up. 

[ClydesdaleKevin]

We'll see, but they are both computer controlled and if anything they would have cancelled each other out...and I only used them together a few times before figuring that much out.  It took the same amount of time charging the batteries with the generator using both, or just the converter.  And it was still working fine...until yesterday.

Its a clean compartment, no dog hair or anything, and there is nothing in the fan blocking the cooling capacity...its just decided to stop working.  Fuses, like I said, are fine, as is the AC voltage coming into the unit.  I did indeed unplug it and let it sit for 10 whole minutes while I took the dogs out, and then plugged it back in with no improvement or action.  Power here isn't great, but its still an almost solid 20 amps...our AC runs just fine, as it did all day today in 80+ degree weather, so its not a brown out either.

I'll check my battery water tomorrow before putting them on external charge, and of course the tightness of the connections.  I'm hoping the folks at Best Converter can hook me up with the least amount of inconvenience...we are back to work, and this is our busiest show!

I hate buying new stuff and having it break...I expect it when I buy used stuff.

Murphy's Law as it applies to Kevin Smith:  If something can't be broken, Kevin will buy one that will break.  If something is bullet proof, Kevin can break it with a plastic spork.  If something is going to break, it will break on Kevin at the worst possible time...lol!  I hate Murphy.  He can rot in Hades...lmao!

Kev

[RedneckExpress]

You were running your roof A/C AND the converter off a 20 amp circuit?  20amps is mostly consumed by the roof A/C unit alone, especially when it does a start up cycle and then the converter if it was under load would draw at least a 15 amp circuit's worth of juice. 

You may have caused a surge trying to run both off a 20 amp pedestal, especially if the power isn't very good and shared through several vendors booths.  The pedestal might also be wired improperly, did you run a checking tool on it to see if the polarity leads coming from the pole are good?

It's very possible that the power at the fairgrounds or wherever cooked the unit.  Your A/C is a dumb system, inductive load, but less sensitive to poor power than a solid state circuit board. 

I'd get one of those little plug in checking tools (Harbor Freight, home depot all sell them) and check to see if the power you're feeding off of is wired correctly before possible damage occurs to another system. 

I'd also stick a multi meter in your pedestal's socket to and check your line voltage, anything under 110 and you're getting into solid state killing range.    Be certain to check it while the Air Conditioner is on. 

[brians69d24]

I would think these converters were rugged enough to handle real world camping conditions...low voltage, reversed hot/neutral, etc.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Right Brian?  I think I just bought that only one that was a lemon.  We run sensitive equipment off this power pole, and have for 3 years now...the flat screen TV, computers, etc.  Something is amiss.  I sent Best Converters a letter, so we'll see what they say.

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Randy called me and, even though I sent a not so nice second letter...after yesterday's extremely frustrating occurances...he was really awesome about it and said to just ship him back the bad converter and he'll ship me out a new one.  So until then, I'll be keeping my batteries charged with the external charger.  Sweet!

Kev

[RedneckExpress]

Randy is one of the big reasons I usually aim people at Bestconverter.com for RV converters because they don't tend to leave you high and dry. 

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Yep...I didn't realize they were also RVers and a small business,and should have been way more patient with them waiting for a response.  They were actually away RVing...lol.  Really nice guy, and didn't get mad at my email, he just tried to make it right. 

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

The new converter arrived today!  Wow!  That was a FAST turnaround!  I just shipped the bad one back on Friday!

The new one is all installed and working perfectly, and I sent Randy a thankyou letter.

Kev

[RedneckExpress]

Good on all   Battery charging has been restored, yay!

[OldEdBrady]

I read every bit of this.  And have NO idea what I've read.  I understood "converter," "generator," "AC & DC," and stuff like that.   i??

[ClydesdaleKevin]

 :)rotflmao

You are awesome, Ed!

Kev

[winnebagoguy]

Well guys I have read all your good and helpful info, now my old brain is swimming.  My 1972 D-22 winnie has an old Powers charger/inverter which has boiled my 4 6volt golfcart batteries, mostly my mistake for leaveihg it plugged into shore power to long.  Well the charger must be replaced.  But with what? Next I need batteries.  Now these 4 batts were seriesed than paralled, The starting bat was 2 6es and the other 2 sixes were the same hookup for the coach battery. There is a switch in the dash that is labeled single or dual.  isn,t this a waste of six volt batteries for a starting battery.  Is there a better way to handle this problem.  I am mostly a weekend camper, sometimes 4 days at most.Thanks for any help. Doug

[ClydesdaleKevin]

You can't beat a Powermax Boondocker, and they won't boil your batteries.  You wouldn't need as many charging amps as us, so you'd spend a lot less from Bestconverters.  Lower amps equals a way cheaper price.

Replace your batteries with Interstate golf cart batteries.  If you can add another battery, use the 4 that are there for coach, and add a good 12 volt battery for chassis and starting.  You'll have all the power you need and no worries for YEARS.

Kev

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

You want to use the 2 sets of 6 volt batteries for just the house. 
Using a 6 volt pair for starting is a waste on a gas engine.  Diesels do it because they need extra amps starting a high compression engine.
Find a place for a single 12V battery for just the chassis.

As far as a newer converter is concerned, key is having one that has 3 stages (based on wet cell lead acid battery style):

Stage 1 - Bulk charge (Constant Current; tapered voltage) - Maintains higher charging current until battery bank is 90% full.  If this was maintained past the 90% full point it would damage the battery.

Stage 2 - Absorption charge (Constant voltage [~ 13.8VDC], tapered current) - Basically the same as a car alternator.  Used to charge the last 10% which can take several hours depending on battery bank size.  If this stage is maintained in storage mode after the battery is already @ 100% charge, it will boil the batteries dry.  This stage was the only one available in older model converters.

Stage 3 - Float charge (~ 13.2VDC @ 1 amp or less) - Used to maintain battery charge in storage.

Stage 4 - Equalization stage (~15.5VDC for 2 hours or less) - Used to reduce the effects of acid sulfate stratification (electrolytes concentrate at the bottom of the battery).  The high voltage stimulates the mixing of the electrolyte solution.  This stage is not available in all models of converters.

Dave

[winnebagoguy]

OK, I'll try to find a place for the starting battery.  As for a converter/charger, what do you think of the 45 amp PowerMax  sold by Camping World.  I can get free shipping if I order from CW and their prices fit my retirement budget a little better. Doug

[ClydesdaleKevin]

45 amps is more than enough for a 4 golf cart battery system, especially if you don't do a lot of boondocking where you need a lot of amp hours, and then a way to quick charge the batteries back up.

Seriously consider though getting a 5th battery, a plain old 12 volt starting battery, as your chassis battery.  If you can find a place to fit it, that's the way to go.

Kev