Winnie goes a Drifting

[Clyde9]

From: BonneauBago</NOBR>  (Original Message)    
Sent: 5/11/2003 10:02 PM

Okay, I've posted to just about all of the boards and have gotten through everything so far with the great help you all have provided me.  I finally got to do a road test today and found that the winnie likes to drift.  Doesn't seem to be an alignment problem because its not in any one direction.  One time it may slip to the left the next to the right.  If I keep it under 50 mph its not to bad, anything over that gets scary.  This is my first RV so it may just take some getting used to. lol  Tires are in good shape and are 17.5's with 55 psi in them.  Could it be something as simple as the shocks or do I need to add a stabilizer?  I have a 3 hour trip this Tuesday and don't want to take any unnecessary chances!  Just not sure what to check in the steering area.  Thanks in advance.

Mark
BonneauBago
South Carolina



From: BonneauBago    
Sent: 5/11/2003 10:04 PM

Forgot to mention the important part! Duh!!
1979 26ft Brave on a Dodge Chassis with a 440-3.



From: Colin    
Sent: 5/11/2003 10:43 PM

I'd check out 1) shocks (obvious and easy) 2) front axle, king pins, bushings etc. (we'll need some additional advice from more experienced members on this) 3) steering box, etc. (ditto) 4)adding a steering stabilizer (call J.C. Whitney, I got one for about $40.00).

C.



From: 79brave   
Sent: 5/12/2003 12:01 AM

HAL HERE. HAVE YOU CHECKED THE STEERING GEAR?  HAVE SOME ONE WATCH THE FRONT WHEELS WHILE YOU TURN THE STEERING WHEEL. THE MORE YOU CAN TURN THE STEERING WHEEL WITHOUT MOVEING THE FRONT WHEELS, THE MORE THE RIG WILL WANDER. YOU MIGHT NEED TO ADJUST STEERING BOX.



From: jeepdog85
Sent: 5/12/2003 12:17 AM

Hi, Guys I just adjusted my steering box in less than
2 minutes. I have a 26 foot a class 1978 chieftain
with rear kitchen. In front of drivers side wheel is
the steering box. On the side of the box there is 1
adjustment screw/bolt with locktite nut. The bolt has
a Allen head insert. loosen the nut and tighten the
bolt. then tighten the nut. Thats it TA DA. Hope this
helps.

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From: bhart1970   
Sent: 5/12/2003 8:22 AM

Are your tires bias ply or radials?

Could it be as simple as the bias ply tires following cracks and grooves in the road surface or is it more pronounced than that?  I've driven a '65 IH dump truck with bias ply tires that would follow every nook and cranny in the pavement if you let it.



From: BonneauBago    
Sent: 5/12/2003 8:38 AM

Thanks for the info guys.  Tires are bias ply and I'm pretty sure its not the road because it does it on old blacktop as well as on a stretch they just recently paved.  Gonna check the steering box adjustment but have a question first, when you loosen the lock nut, how far do you turn the hex nut?  Is it like everything else, 1/4 turn then test it or just tighten it up snuggly.  Thanks again.

Mark
BonneauBago
South Carolina



From: denison    
Sent: 5/12/2003 9:51 AM

Except in gusty crosswinds, steering your Winnebago should be like a car --- okay a large car. Several items in the front suspension wear to result in poor lane keeping and wander. The wear is normal, there are adjustments you can do. Beginning with what I think is the most likely:
1. Lack of toe in, which isn’t terribly hard to adjust, but has dramatic effect on -lane keeping- .
2. Steering box not adjusted properly -which takes more care to adjust, but must be done periodically. Results in mushy feel and lack of reassuring linearity between steering wheel inputs and corresponding directional changes.
3. Worn kingpins/bushings, if you have the beam front axle, -or worn ball joints and suspension arm bushings if you have independent front suspension. I will assume you have the beam front axle. The reason the toe-in decreases and becomes toe-out is primarily due to kingpin/bushing wear. This would be normal even with the most careful lubrication, and is worse in case of inattention. Proper front wheel toe-in takes much frictional loading off the kingpins, making for a light crisp steering feel, minimizes the chance of shimmy from unbalanced wheels, and results in longer kingpin/bushing life.
4. Wheel bearing play. Not hard to check or adjust, but depending on mileage or previous owners care, it might be time to also re grease those front wheel bearings.
5. A dozen other much less likely things, some of which can be on the rear axle too: like damaged spring shackles, loose spring clamps, cracked main spring leaf, etc. At least they are easy to inspect.
Numbers 1,2, and 4 you can probably do yourself. Number 1 will probably make the biggest improvement, followed by number 2. Replacing kingpins and bushings is a much bigger job,even assuming you don't run into complications.
When I got mine with 49K miles on it, steering meant constantly pushing it back into the direction I wanted to go - I was fighting it all the time.
I would check toe-in first, and adjust it to about 1/8th inch. Will probably take more than one try, but assuming the tie rod isnt too rusty in position, can be done in one afternoon. I can email you a two or three page ramble about setting toe-in and adjusting the steering box if you want.
That hex adjustment you mention is for the steering shaft end play, and tightening it is what I would do -After- I had tightened the worm shaft thrust bearing pre-load first. However- as a quick improvement, turning it in 1/4 turn might make a pleasant difference and wont hurt anything. There isn't any good way to tell by the feel of that adjustment when it is good or better or best. denison



From: mightybooboo    
Sent: 5/12/2003 12:17 PM

Bon,tell us more about those tires.If they are more than 5 years old,it doesn't matter how good the tread is,its time to think new tires.After about five years they become very prone to blowouts.At least I know the radials are.And about the air pressure,is 55 the norm on those(I'm curious)
Boo



From: jeepdog85
Sent: 5/13/2003 12:13 AM

The shaft is there so just wiggle it back and forth
during the tightening process and you will notice
results right there.

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From: BonneauBago    
Sent: 5/17/2003 7:54 PM

Just got back from a 340 mile round trip and the drifting is still there.  Gonna replace tires first as I have dry rot cracks on all tires from it sitting so long.  Had a blow out on right rear outer tire about 60 miles from home (luckily had a good spare and a place near by to change it for $15!)  The steering adjustment helped considerably and the toe-in was fine.  Will check king pins, bearing and all while I have wheels off for tire replacement.  Thanks again everyone.

BonneauBago
South Carolina



From: Sea Hag    
Sent: 8/29/2003 2:04 PM

On my recently purchased 1976 Chieftain ( Dodge M375 or chassis Vin # M40C....... )92,000 on the odometer. most of the play was in Steering column knuckle on top of the steering box . This is a cup type universal . There is a replacement from dodge truck dealers (special order) They said it would take about a week or so to get one out of Detroit . Mean while I Pulled the steering column separating it at the top of the steering box ( loosen two clamps one at the square shaft and one at the steering box shaft and separate between the bottom of the knuckle and steering box drive. ) I removed the column completely out ( from inside the bus disconnect the two wiring harness plugs and remove the dust boot from the floorboard . then remove two bolts on column clamp ) . Once the column is out remove the dust cover by removing the retainer ring on top of the knuckle . Carefully slide the Shaft out of the cup. There will be two Square metal Dogs on pins held in place by  a retainer clip . on mine these square dogs were wore down on the sides that made contact with the cup slots causing the play. However the other two sides of the square dogs were like new . I simply removed the retainer clip and turned both of them 90 degrees so the worn edges were in line to the shaft ( Worn edges Facing the top and bottom of the cup not the sides). Pack the cup with grease about half way and slide the cup back together and re assemble . This took most of the   free play out of the steering . almost like new only different . I'm sure i can get the rest out by adjusting the Box . Good luck



From: denison    
Sent: 8/29/2003 7:50 PM

I think I will go out and add some grease to that knuckle joint! Mine is still snug, but I haven't greased it ever. Thanks for the info SeaHag!
denison



From: Easybago   
Sent: 8/7/2006 8:24 PM

I talked with a guy at an alignment company who specializes in trucks. I mentioned to him that my Winnie has a little wander to her. His first recommendation was to properly grease the king pins. He was saying the best way to get grease to the king pins was to jack the front end up to take pressure off the pins so grease can actually get around the pins. He also said to drive around a bit, then bring her back, jack her up again and regrease the pins again. I'm going to try this this week to see if it helps.



From: tatkin   
Sent: 8/7/2006 8:39 PM

Man, I will bet, driving your car that you have the same event taking place. It is just more pronounced in the RV. I did these procedures.  The bearing preload thing was my ? fix ...

http://www.off-road.com/dodge/ramcharger/tech_tips/SteerSlop.html

http://www.monte-list.nu/tech/boxmesh.shtml

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1997/19-10-97.htm



From: denisondc   
Sent: 8/8/2006 6:32 AM

Most cars today have rack-&-pinion steering, not the steering box with the traveling-ball-nut-&sector, like our motor homes do. Rack & pinion steering has a strong spring to hold the rack in contact with the pinion - hence no 'slop'.
I hope anyone who adjusts their steering box will snug up the steering shaft bearing (slight preload) Before they snug up the pitman arm, especially if their motor home has over 40,000 miles on it.