Broken rear axle need replacement

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: cooneytunes  (Original Message)
Sent: 6/9/2005 12:21 AM

The diagnosis is in for The Doghouse,  Left Axle is broke in half at the bearing..Twisted in two..Cause / Theory ? Bearing failure, a possibility, Timkin bearing purchaced at NAPA. numbers were taken from the original bearing that came out..... Bearing being put in and tighted too much another possiblity..(my guess)...When the bearing seized up, ( after driving about 17 miles total ) it also destroyed part of the axle housing, so according to the shop that did one of the above possiblities..and they seem to be taking the responsiblity for the damage...They plan on removing the whole rear end housing, reeming the left side of it out and having a sleeve machined so a bearing will be able to to be put in.  Then getting a new axle....The guy said, he's hoping to do this next week.......When this will really get done, (anyone want to do a lottery?) Sometime before the Iowa National Jam in 2008 I hope. This place is very layed back and does not get in a hurry.....Hopefully it'll get done in time for me to use it this summer. Until then I guess I just have to be rig-less and  a lot....
Rig-lessTimmy



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 6/9/2005 3:48 AM

Really sorry to hear, Timmy.  Tough luck, brother.  I know how eager you've been to get into the camping swing of things.  I hope you're damage is covered by the company and you get it back within a month, at most! 

- Sob



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 6/9/2005 7:23 AM

Personally Timmy, I'd just go to a junkyard and find an axle, and make them buy it. Very unsusual for a Dana to break an axle from a siezed bearing... especially in only 17 miles! Maybe a local boneyard would give the shop a good price on a whole replacement rear Differantial and axles. Then they could just swap in your new brakes and drums and then...

You wouldn't have to be "rigless"!

Tom



From: chip
Sent: 6/9/2005 7:43 AM

could it be possible the axle/bearing failed because the locktab washer was not secured on the bearing retainer nuts? i'm not sure the drivetrain could generate enough torque to do so but, just a thought.



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 6/9/2005 8:13 PM

Thanks for the condolances SOB.....I hope it's within the month............. of this year too...

Slant.....I was going to ask them that same question myself. Personally, I think it would be easier to find an new housing at a junk yard, and make the switch, even if the have to switch the hog head too...Since the old one is out, just pop a new one in....but it was their mistake, and I'll let them run with what they want to do as long as it doesn't cost me any more money.....
I've already spent countless hours on the phone, between them, getting it towed, and lining up another RV in one day....and 1500 bucks for the rental RV for a week.... Also have a couple of already paid for,  Non-refundable camping spots at a few races, next week at KY Speedway for the BUSH race, and a spot in INDY for the Brickyard...... I hope I can get it back so I can use them...Looking at next weeks, that's probably wishing too much so I'm looking at that as shot, but the Brickyard is first Sun in Aug......I think that's more than a reasonable time to ( as Larry the Cable Guy wold say,) " git er done..."
Chip....that's a thought....very possible they forgot to put the retaining washer in, but don't remember seeing those parts left over.... or the pin....I think they just forgot to loosen it after putting the pin back in..(IF THEY EVEN PUT THE PIN BACK IN.) When it broke.....It did not make a noise until 30 seconds or so before it went....no wine, just a quick (not very loud) crunch from the left rear, followed by a fast thumping (similar to the sound a U joint makes when it comes loose) and then, just like when a drive shaft falls off..... or you put shifter to neutral..and step on the gas..all rpm......in fact, I kind of cringed as I was waiting for the bounce, than the boomb, or the drag of the drive shaft when it reved up, Even after I stopped, that's what I thought it was at first until I got out and saw the hub smokin' like a barbaque grill. Looked underneath and saw the driveshaft still attached front, back & middle. So if that place wants to blame themselves, the part, NAPA, or Bin Laddin, all I can say is,

OK, just, Git er Done. NOW !

Timmytherig-lessguy....



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 6/9/2005 11:35 PM

Timmy, whatever you do -- DO NOT LET THEM SLEEVE THE BEARING AREA!!!

This is a "makeshift" repair that will cost you time and money down the road.

Find a replacement rear end in a junkyard, make them buy it -- and then make them have it professionally rebuilt, and make them install it.  And of course, all at no cost to you.

Believe me, this is the least that they owe you.  Had this happened on one of my trucks, then not only would have been paying for proper repairs -- but they would have been paying my downtime, motel, meals, etc for the extra time caused by their shoddy workmanship.

John



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 6/9/2005 11:42 PM

Thanks, John......
I 'm going to get them tp do that.....I was intouch with a lawyer and he said I could only recoupe the repair and the towing not downtime, or I tried for the rv rental...he said NOPE....no rental
but I found another rear end don't know the price yet...but will be in contact with the guy tomorrow.....Tahnks, Again John.....it sounded a little shabby to me when he said to sleeve it...I would have thought replacing would be better and easier....
Timmy



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 6/10/2005 7:09 AM

John, So I have some ammo aginst the sleeving of the housing......Exactly why would this be a shoddy way to repair this, and what could be possible future problems from it being repaired like this..I heard of this type of repair before, but don't know anyone who's had it done before.....I know a bearing will not hold if there is any pitting in the housing where it sits...and this is what the sleeving is supposed to correct I believe. Hopefully he won't fight me on this.
Thanks, Timmy



From: denison
Sent: 6/10/2005 10:28 AM

I think sleeving is a common way to repair damage (cracks and galling/scoring) to the end of an axle housing, but since the replacement axle would probably be inexpensive, compared to the same part on a Kenworth, I would get the whole junkyard rear axle. The hardest part would be lifting it; being about 400 lbs with the wheels off. And if it has diff oil in it, no metal shavings, and the bearings look well oiled - it likely wouldnt need any rebuilding. I would want to look at the wheel bearings though, as well as take the better choice of any brake parts, put in new wheel cylinders, that sort of thing. I do my own work, so I seldom care how long it takes, but I dont think I would want that business to be in a -rush- either. Give them time to do it proper.
In fact, if they insisted on sleeving it, I think I would bring it home, find a used axle, and change it out myself. Preferrably in cool weather.



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 6/10/2005 7:16 PM

The process of sleeving involves enlarging the end of the forged axle housing, then interference-fitting a steel sleeve into it that replicates the original axle housing end.  However, in doing so, you reduce the structural strength of the axle housing itself.

This leads to reduced longevity of the axle housing, reduced load carrying capacity, and it only postpones the inevitable complete replacement of the axle housing.

John



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 6/10/2005 7:22 PM

Timmy wrote:

" Thanks, John......
I 'm going to get them tp do that.....I was intouch with a lawyer and he said I could only recoupe the repair and the towing not downtime, or I tried for the rv rental...he said NOPE....no rental
but I found another rear end don't know the price yet...but will be in contact with the guy tomorrow.....Tahnks, Again John.....it sounded a little shabby to me when he said to sleeve it...I would have thought replacing would be better and easier....
Timmy"

I think lawyers should only be called when it is time to file the papers in court.  If the guy fights you on this, a very quiet but firm statement to the effect that you would be more than happy to let all of his present -- and prospective -- customers know how his shop responds to situations in which they screw up will practically make the guy fall over himself setting the matter right to YOUR satisfaction.  That is, if he is any sort of a businessman.

When businesspeople understand how much business -- ergo, money -- they stand to lose, they usually get real cooperative.

John



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 6/10/2005 11:06 PM

I found a rear end housing.....From a 1976 M500 Dodge wrote it down but can't remember Motor Home (not a Winnebago) at a boneyard / parts place in SW Missouri, near the Oklahoma line.....Guy there (Duane Griffin) says, they will remove the housing from the donor rig, remove the pumpkin, inspect all the parts including the axles, and replace any thing they think is bad..... then seal it back up fill it with new oil and warranty all the parts for 2 years or 30,000 miles.....they will also remove and keep all the brake parts, drums, including the backing plate etc. So I would just get the housing, rear end gears, axles and bearings..... Price $795.00 plus freight.... frieght charge would be about 125 to 150 $.....from Missouri to here.....I'm going to be looking locally around Louisville KY, and Indiana too....Since all my rear brake stuff is new, 17 miles on it, I would have them switch all that to the new one....If the guy won't go for it....I might take your advise Denison, and do it myself.....or I may get an estimate at tom Stinnett RV at Camping World outside of Louisville.....They get 135.00 and hour......and have Louisville RV do it for 69 and hour and try and recoup the 135 an hour estimate....Problem I have doing it here is no good hard surface.....My drive way is gravel and not wide enough to park it there for a long period..... and no access to electric there either, only place I have to park it is on grass, and I hate working on grass.... I have a concrete slab, but there's an old building I'm in the midle of tearing down, and will take me another month or so to finish tearing it down, then I have to cut down about 7 trees to get the rig on it...so it will be cool weather by the time I'm ready to park the rig there....What to do..What to do..What good is having the cake, if you can't eat it.
Than, again, I'd like to use the rig this summer too....Decisions, decisions......for the amount of miles I'll put on the rig yearly....I talked with a machinist, and he said, the same thing Denison said, That this is a common fix for rear end housings and, that if the sleeve is made properly, and fitted correctly, the housing should be stronger than new....So I guess I'll sleep on what to do till next week, when I'll have to make a decision......and also see what other responses, I get from you guys....
Thanks for all your help....
WonderingWinne-lessTimmy



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 6/13/2005 11:52 PM

Here is my theory on why they might not want to go to a junkyard for the axle housing:

In my area in NC, AND in my old area of CT, Spicer 70hd axles are in SUPER high demand from junkyards by all the 4x4 enthusiasts.  Dana axles are the same story.  These things are built so well that offroaders venerate them as virtually indestuctable...

Which leads me to Tim's driving:  How the heck did you break one of these axles, even with a bad bearing?  You don't have a big #3 on the back of your rig, do ya? 

Kev



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 6/13/2005 11:55 PM

DJ- Im not racing the truck!

BooBoo



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 6/15/2005 12:40 AM

  No not nuber 3...... # 12, but I only drove at speeds of 25 to 35 mph about 16 miles, as soon as I took it up to 55 on the highway got about just short of one mile at 55 mph and she broke...so they installed something wrong.....now I've driven and bad bearings for 100's of miles, winning and screaming like a wild eagle, this thing made two sounds, a short and not very load crunch, and then 3 or 4 thumps, then it went to neutral.....no drive, left hub smokin' like a barbaque grill.....either the bearing had a catistrafic failure, simmialar to the way John HHT front bearing failed or....they installed it wrong, hey maybe even  the wrong bearing got used....or they left a rag in the axle housing behind the bearing.....All I know, It was only 17 miles total on the new bearing....and I saw the axle before the bearing was but in and it looked like a new one, no marks scrapes, and the splines were perfect...Only the guy that installed it knows what really happened.....He said he installed it like he does all others, as long as they're claiming responiblity for the problem..... as they say in Kentucky.....It don't not matter to me.
Timmy



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 7/20/2005 8:49 AM

Timmy,

Got your rig back yet?

and if not, Why not?

Tom

From: cooneytunes
Sent: 7/20/2005 11:15 PM

NOT YET.....As of Wed July 20....Why??? That's the 64,000 dollar question.....My rig has been sitting in his shop for two weeks now, new rear is under it, but they haven't switched all the brake parts over.....I haven't stopped there since last Friday.....cause It's just pissing me off........He keep saying we haven't had time to work on it ......and I'm tring to bite my toung, I don't want him getting pissed off while my rig is still in pieces all over his shop.....The only reason I can think of,  he's working on it 15 minutes or so at a time and doing all his other stuff first, since he's doing it on his dime.....if it's not done by this week-end.... I'm going to start raising hell with him...The rig was towed there on May 23rd and the new rear end came in on June 18....it's now almost July 23rd and I'm still RIGLESS..........I like to get his e-mail and have all the members of the CWM hell everybody with an RV
e-mail him at the exact same time and clog his server....I'll guaranty the only place he'll ever see me again is in court.....he's just about ruined my whole summer.
Stillriglessandnowverypissedofftimmy



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 7/26/2005 3:00 PM

I have to say that Timmy gets my vote as the most Patient guy on CWM...

This long and he's just finally getting PO'ed and hiring hit-men....What a guy!

I hope you get your rig back this week.

Hey-- are you gonna drag the guy (by a rope) 17miles to make sure he fixed it right this time? I would!

Tom



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 7/30/2005 3:09 PM

FINAllY........Got the Doghouse back.....test drove it 64 miles.....drives like new....no strange noise.....new rear end quiet, no hum....(old one had a slight low end hum to it) ......yes..... YES....I must say, I was insainly patient...)loaded my gun a few times...but like Don Corleone said, "You keep your friends close, and your enimies closer."   
All in all, he did the job 5 minutes a day for 65 days, (at his expense) hopefully right this time...... only cost me a few trips canceled, and a very expensive rental, and three month delay in fixing other stuff....... my motto is, don't get mad...get even...
Let just say, when he drives his POV (personally owned vehicle)  on a Friday or SAT. nights for awhile.... I sure hope he's not drinking or speeding....And my wife ( who is not as patient as me) is spreading the word along with several other people:    "DON'T GO TO... McCrey's Auto Service....if you want your vehicle fixed ! "
He still don't know what he did wrong... (or a least won't admit it).....
My guess is, he tightend the bearing too much...and forgot to back the nut off after bearing was seated. Or while tightening the outside retaining nut, he didn't watch the inside nut, resulting in the inside nut tightening at the same time......Guess only the god's of Winnebago will know for sure. A good lesson plan for Winnebago U.
The End of the Axle Saga.

Notriglessanymoretimmy



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 7/30/2005 6:48 PM

Great news.A Warranty is only as good as the person backing it up.Glad its finally home.

BooBoo



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 7/31/2005 12:22 AM

Congrats, Timmy!  "On the road again......."

Kev