Engine lacks power: 40 mph up-hill?

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: nvdesertrat0775  (Original Message)
Sent: 5/4/2005 3:17 AM

I just got back from a mini-vacation in Death Valley.  I went, not only to take in such a glorious place, but to test the results of some "Master Tune-up" work I had done in order to pass smog test.
  I had everything done... plugs, wires, rotor, carb adjust and pretty much anything the Super Techs said should be done.... to the tune of almost $1,000.00.  One tune-up shop did the first work, but the RV still didn't pass Smog, so rather than take it back to the teenage "Mechanic", I took it to a RV Service center.
  The first shop charged $365.00 for the 'complete' tuneup, and the RV center charged Almost $600.00 for dismantling and resetting all the carb jets & etc, and getting it to pass smog...which it finally did.  It ran great!  on level ground. 
  When I hit the road toward Death Valley, the hills brought out another side.  On any 'kinda' steep or extended hill, the top speed was about 40 mph.  On the return trip, I emptied out most of the water in the tanks, thinking the weight might make a difference, but it didn't.
  Before I went to this four-barrel Edlebrock, the stock two barrel carb could make it up hills better than this edlebrock does.  I have to wonder what else might be wrong... manifold leak?  Compression loss?  I think I've spent enough on the local RV experts trying to guess what might be wrong.  Before I hand it over to another one, I'd like to have some kind of idea what the 'heck' could be the problem.  On everything except longish, steepish hills it runs great!  I no longer need to let it warm up for five minutes before it will take off, and it rarely dies even on cold mornings.  But here in Reno, I'm surrounded by hills!  And Burning Man is rapidly approaching...
  Anyone got any suggestions on what could be wrong with the old girl?  Could there be some kind of compression or manifold leak that only shows up under the stress of steep hills?  Should I simply take it back to the RV center and let THEM figure out what's wrong?? {To the tune of "HOW much??!!"}
Thanks!  all help appreciated!

Rat



From: poppinjohnnies
Sent: 5/4/2005 10:53 AM

When the shop installed the Edelbrock,  did they also swap the 2 barrel intake manifold and install a 4 barrel intake, or did they just install a 2 to 4 barrel adapter plate?  If they used the adapter, it negates most of the flow improvement that you would normally get from the 4 barrel carb.  If they used the 2 to 4 barrel adapter, toss it and replace that 2 barrel manifold with an aftermarket aluminum intake (the Edelbrock "performer" is probably the best choice for an rv).  You can use a stock iron thermoquad intake with a spread bore to square flange carb adapter, but if you're swapping intakes anyway, get the Edelbrock.  You'll be happier with it. 
The vacuum advance on the distributor needs to have the vacuum line installed on the ported vacuum port on the carb (NOT the manifold vacuum carb port).  If I remember correctly, the ported vacuum port is on the left (driver's) side of the carb center on the front of the carb for your Edelbrock.
I just put new valve covers on my Chieftain the other night and I happened to find a couple of vacuum leaks due to old, dried up vacuum hoses.  You might check that.  Plugged up or restrictive exhaust systems can also create a power drain.
Hope this helps.  Good luck!



From: Boise_Chief1
Sent: 5/4/2005 11:08 AM

Is your transmision kicking down into lower gears.  They may have not adjusted the kick down right and if you try to pull hills in drive you'll burn up your tranny.  If you're not sure, down shift manualy and see what happens.  Just go one gear at a time.  Good luck.



From: Derrek
Sent: 5/4/2005 11:22 AM

Rat,

If you think that the problem may be related to the tuning of the Edelbrock carb, here is a great link for Edlebrock carb tuning:

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/gilesij/Volvord/edelbrock_1.htm

I would recommend checking out Section 3: Power tuning procedure

If you can get an O2 sensor, or happen to have one around from a fuel injected vehicle, you can purchase a weld in bung from a local muffler shop or a Summit racing and connect it to a multi-tester for accurate carb tuning.

I purchased this bung from Summit racing
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=weld+in+bung&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp&x=49&y=19

And used a spare O2 sensor from my Dakota to tune the carb according to the info in the "Volvord" link above. Much easier than "guessing" at the right rod and jet combination. If you have a torch, you can burn a hole in the exhaust, and braze the bung in place. Hope that helps!

Derrek



From: Derrek
Sent: 5/4/2005 11:25 AM

The Summit racing link didn't work right....The bung I purchased was part #

SUM-G2990 it is $4.99 + shipping.....



From: DaveVa78Chieftain
Sent: 5/4/2005 11:29 AM

For one, anything above 40 mph is going to be in 3rd gear so, down gearing is not an issue.  To meet smog requirements I would imagine the shop checked all the hoses well.   I suspect your actually up against a detuning of the engine (carb, timing) to meet smog requirements.   You maybe left with no choice between meeting the smog requirements vs optimum engine performance.  Options?  Maybe move to a state that waves the requirement for vechicles over 20 years old?

Dave



From: Winnielover4078
Sent: 5/4/2005 9:22 PM

I had the same problem with mine here in vegas. My 72 brave has a 413 with a holley. It ran great until I had it smogged, when they got done with it, it was extremely sluggish. I took it home and readjusted it as best I could, but it still aint the same as it was before!



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 5/4/2005 10:22 PM

Smog or not....

Vacuum advance not working?
Carb improperly setup? (regardless of passing smog... now undo all the smog settings!)

Restricted fuel lines/pump/filter?

Wrong Cam? Bad cam-to-crank timing setup?

If it indeed is "bogging" from a bad mixture setting and there's plenty of fuel, you will be pouring out black (or bluish black) smoke from the tailpipe (not enough air)

If the exhaust is too clean...it's too lean!

Try the gas-enriched mixture adjustment, if you can, if not, "Power Time" the pig, and reset the mixture, Float and choke pull off adjustments.
You do have a choke pull of actuator on the edelbrock, right?!! it may not be functioning properly, or at all.

Coincidently, from my long time personal opinion and experience, the 2bbl Carter carb on the 318 does just fine under ALL circumstances.... All I've ever had with 4bbls on these motors is complaints about bad gas mileage, and an overall loss in performance.

Winnies are Trucks, not muscle cars (of course that is obvious....!), they benefit mostly from the maximized use of the available torque, not horsepower. In the case of a 318, you never had a lot of either!

On a serious note, your cam timing and type of camshaft can also cause you to be "inside out" in your power curve, making it almost impossible to reach peak engine horsepower because of engine load!  This is amplified about ten times when you go through CA emissions, too!

I hope this info helps you, even just a little!

Tom



From: denison
Sent: 5/4/2005 10:32 PM

I have  not seen anyone mention:  Checking that the centrifugal advance is still working more or less according to the service manual specs - as to when it begins to advance, and how many degrees itg advances.  I wonder if the smog check place could have put on stronger springs, limiting the centrifugal advance?    I would not think they would change carburetor jets - that is much harder than merely fiddling with the idle air mixture, and retarding the spark enough to drop the nitrous oxides down, and lower the h.c. emissions somewhat.



From: chip
Sent: 5/4/2005 11:13 PM

i think they probably retarded your timing, changed metering rodclip positions, and possibly jets . the edelbrock carb makes it real easy to adjust mixtures this way. if your emissions test is one where you don't run it on a dyno and just check in park at low rpms these three "adjustments" will usually make anything pass.



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/5/2005 1:05 AM

Hmmm.. some things to think about.  For the record, the intake manifold was changed to the Edlebrock intake.  The guy who did all the carb work said half of the carb wasn't even working, and he found clogged jets and all kinds of similiar crap. I don't know if the vacuum advance is to the right or left port.  I'll check it.  I'll also check for old vac lines [don't want to take for granted they were changed] but one of the few things I've never really dipped my fingers into is carbs.  I hesitate to start changing adjustments and settings since I'm not "sure" in my mind I'm doing it right or should even be doing it.  However, I DID install the intake manifold and the Edlebrock Carb myself, and had a friend doublecheck it before I fired it up.
  The RV is in 3rd gear as it struggles up the hills.  Downshifting doesn't do anything.  Yes, the idea it may be doing damage to the tranny has certainly crossed my mind...
Derrek, I'll check that link out, thanks, but as I said, I DO hesitate to fiddle with the carb!
Dave... it would be even easier than moving to another state.  Can you believe, I could move only 25 miles in any direction and smog checks wouldn't be required?  I'm in Sparks [next to Reno], and only Washoe county {Reno/Sparks} and Las Vegas require smog checks!  Carson City, the state capital only 30 miles away, doesn't have smog checks!  Here I am spending big bucks to meet a requirement the states lawmakers have exempted themselves from!  And ending up with, in all probability, a de-tuned RV.
  Hmmm. slantsix, I wonder... could having TWO filters on the same line create any problem?  Assumming both are new and clean?  One filter was allready installed back by the main tank when I installed the electric fuel pump, and the pump came with it's own [inline] filter.  I wouldn't THINK that would be a problem, but right now I'm willing to think hexes, curses, and failure to say, "Mother May I?"  The exhaust has a slight hydrocarbon smell to it, but not at all heavy, and the exhaust is thin and gray.  Invisible, after it's running for a few minutes.
Denison, the mech said he completely dismantled the carb, and he MAY have changed the jets.  I can look at the copy of the bill, but just because a place lists work -as we all know - wouldn't mean it had actually been done.  And, except for the hill problem, it DOES run really well.
  I'll take a look at the vac lines, the carb being well seated, the advance being on the driver's side vented port, check out Derreks link, doublecheck the filters [maybe take one completely off] and...?
Chip, they check it with both HIGH and low rpms...

Thanks for the suggestions.  I do appreciate them!

Rat



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 5/5/2005 9:24 AM

Rat,

You may also want to check around and see if any of your neighbors or associates are motorheads.  As others have mentioned, they probably tweaked your carburator at the shop to make it pass smog, and now its not giving you the performance it was designed for.  I know quite a few backyard mechanics myself that could, in very short order, get even the oldest carburator to at least perform decently on the highway.  If you are hesitant to adjust the carb yourself, find one of these good old boys with a Nascar hat and grease under thier fingernails to adjust if for you.  It might cost you a six pack of beer, but all the motorheads I know love tinkering with carbs...lol.

Kev and Patti Smith



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/5/2005 4:04 PM

Kev, thanks, but the only neighbor I would trust to stick his head under the doghouse didn't survive his triple bypass last fall. Generally, lol, I'M the neighbor they come to, to get things fixed.  I've managed and maintained these 32 rental units for the last 20 years, plus fixing 200+ bikes every year for Burning Man [and dozens more for the neighbors], and rebuilt that 57 Mercury TT, so it would probably surprise them to learn I was hesitant to mess with carb adjustments.  I don't mind admitting I can't do everything, lol...
  There used to be a vietnam vet who worked on carbs, if the city hasn't driven him out of business.  He was a bit of a nonconformist, lol.  I'll see if I can find him...he really knew his carbs.

Thanks!

Rat



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 5/7/2005 8:13 PM

Rat,with my smogged 440-1 I can pull 60 mph over cajon pass,4200 feet,with an edlebrock 650 smog carb.I do it at 50 mph though.I did find some steep hills that did me at 40 mph,altitude with 7% grade,some I even cruised over at 35 mph,but I still could accellerate and feel the extra 2 barrels kick in with a strong bump.

BooBoo



From: west coast redneck
Sent: 5/7/2005 9:18 PM

Eh. I understand your delima..I have a D21 440-3.Had nothing but troubles with the old Carter carb.Then I put a 750 Elderbrock carb on & it was terrific .started great ,Idled great but on the hill I'd say I lost 20% bull power.I wasn't sure if it was my amagination or qwhat. It's running so well except for that I don't want anyone to mess with it unless I'm sure they know what's up.No smog stuff up here in Canada yet so I don't have to worry about all that stuff. I'll be watching to see how things work out .Good luck eh. Dale



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/7/2005 11:16 PM

I just took a few minutes to pull the doghouse off, and... the vacuum advance is coming from the right-hand side of the Edlebrock.  The left side is capped off with one of those rubber caps.
  The vacuum line isn't long enough to reroute it, so it'll have to wait until I can get to Pep boys for a new hose.
   If it belongs on the left, wouldn't ya think some of these high-priced Mechs would notice?  It certain could explain why it's never seemed to 'advance' much...
Boo-Boo, I've never felt the second 2 barrels kick in.  I could feel the Old Carter kick in, even if it didn't cause the uphill speed to increase more than a mph or two.  On SOME of the hills it did pick up the speed noticibly, though.  Not this one...
  redneck, you're lucky... these stupid smog checks are nothing but another way for someone to pick our pocket.  Especially in a littleish place like Reno!  If it's such a great idea, why isn't it required statewide, instead of in only two counties??
  Oh, well...
  I'll change that vacuum hose as soon as I can, and post the results of the roadtest afterward...

Rat



From: poppinjohnnies
Sent: 5/8/2005 10:03 AM

You can double check the vacuum port easily.  The ported vacuum port is where the vacuum advance needs to be connected.  It won't have full vacuum at idle but it will pull more vacuum as you accelerate.  Start it up and put your finger over the end of the vacuum port.  Use your other hand to slowly increase the engine speed.  If it creates more vacuum at a higher rpm, that's the one you want to connect to the distributor.  You might want to check the vac. advance on the dist. while you're at it to be sure that it is in fact functioning. 
-Just my 2 cents' worth-



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/8/2005 10:10 AM

Good thought... I will do that today. But will it be a matter of degrees?  Or will there be NO vacuum on one port and increasing vac on the other as it's revved?

Rat



From: Derrek
Sent: 5/8/2005 11:33 AM

Hey Rat,

It has been a long time ago, but back when you were installing that carb,I remember you asking which port the hose needed to be connected to, . I went out and checked on my Winnebago, and found that it was connected to the right side port on mine, so I think that it is hooked up correctly.

Its amazing and somewhat scary that I can remember responding to that thread about 3 years ago (back in the good ol' Edelbrock carb, curtain joke, and plexiglass engine cover days...lol) Half of the time I can hardly remember my own name...



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/8/2005 11:59 AM

Drat!  It just did the "Disappearing Post" trick... unless ----Derrek, do you by chance post straight from your inbox?  Maybe the message went there instead of to the site...?

Anyway.. yeah, that was quite awhile back.  No curtain jokes anymore.  :>(

Seems the best thing will be to make sure where the vacuum is, as poppinjohnnies suggested.

Later!

Rat



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/8/2005 12:01 PM

I went out and checked on my Winnebago, and found that it was connected to the right side port on mine, so I think that it is hooked up correctly. <

Or, maybe, lol, we're BOTH hooked up wrong!

Rat



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/8/2005 12:25 PM

Oh, great!  I seem to have vacuum on BOTH ports.  I suppose the only way to know is to test the left port in operation... unless there's a better idea out there...?

Rat



From: Froggy1936
Sent: 5/8/2005 1:52 PM

I read all your messages and i see no one mentioned checking for full throttle opening (check with warmed up engine & engine shut off using foot on accellerator to floor with air filter removed look down carb throats ck all 4 for full open) Froggy.



From: west coast redneck
Sent: 5/8/2005 9:15 PM

eh desert rat .good luck .I just looked at my carb (Elderbrock 750) & the Vac hose is coming from the front right.The interesting thing I noticed is the front left was capped off & there's a hose just sitting there unconnected that looks like it should  be connected there.I followed it & it goes to a cylinder at bottom right of the motor & it seems to go back to one of the gas tanks.Does anyone know if this should be hooked up or is it right to have it capped off.Thanks a bunch guys or gals.



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 5/8/2005 9:41 PM

Redneck, that is part of your emissions system -- it is the vapor recovery cannister.  That line should be hooked up to the left port -- full time vacuum -- to furnish vacuum to the vapor recovery system.  This supposedly scavenges excess fuel vapor from the carb and (I think) returns it to the fuel tank -- sort of a closed system.

If this cannister is bad, cracked or worn out, it can make your engine run crappy -- that may be why it is disconnected.

John



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 5/8/2005 9:55 PM

Rat, here is something you said in your second post here:

"The RV is in 3rd gear as it struggles up the hills.  Downshifting doesn't do anything."

and

"Boo-Boo, I've never felt the second 2 barrels kick in."

This leads me to believe that the throttle and/ or transmission throttle lever is not adjusted right.  With the A727 tranny, if the secondaries don't kick in the tranny will not downshift even if the kickdown lever is in the right position -- not enough fluid pressure in the transmission to allow it to kick down to 2nd gear; and if the kickdown lever is not in the right position, secondaries alone will just bog the engine with too much fuel.

You said that you put the Edelbrock carb & manifold on... did you also install the Dodge throttle adapter and re-adjust the transmission throttle linkage?  This is something that you might want to look into, since if the linkage is all the way to the rear and the secondaries do kick in then you should both hear and feel the engine roar and begin to pull the hill harder.

John



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/8/2005 11:01 PM

Oh, come now, HHT!  Why would I do something so silly, like installing a throttle adapter and readjusting the tranny linkage??!!  choke-choke
  Methinks the culprit has reared his ugly head....  I had one -ahem -heck of a time getting the throttle even connected, and the odds on it being anywhere near the right place are higher than the space station...
  As I've said, I haven't messed with carbs much, so I was happy getting the throttle where it would open when I hit the pedal and close when I lifted my foot.  If I gave it any thought at all, I'm sure I thought it could all be adjusted at the carb. Can you give me the particulars to check?  And, maybe, to correct the tranny throttle linkage?  Or should I take it to a pro?

Thanks... I do think that's the most likely culprit!

Rat



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 5/8/2005 11:58 PM

No Rat, you have two choices...

You can go down to your local AutoZone or O'Reilly's and have them order the throttle plate adapter and kickdown linkage adapter from Edelbrock -- together, they run about $30 to $40 -- OR

You can design your own adapters, which is (take it from me) a pain in the a**!

John

PS... you might also want to change the stock orange step-up piston springs to the blue ones -- these are also available in a spring assortment from Edelbrock.  The carb was originally set up from the factory for a car... the rich staging is set too high for our low vacuum Dodge motors.  This can effect your hill climbing ability, as well as your gas mileage.



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/9/2005 2:24 AM

HHT, I bought the carb and intake manifold from the local Summit store, and they may have the adapters and springs on hand.  At least, I'll give them first shot.

Yeah, tell me!  I 'built' the adapter that my throttle return springs are fastened to now, and believe me, that was the last resort!  The Edlebrock intake manifold didn't have anything on it that would allow  me to hook the springs, or, if I remember right, any 'reasonable' place to mount anything like what I had left from the old set-up. Looking back, I'm a little surprised the Summit people didn't mention the adapters and try to sell them to me... they knew I was changing from the two barrel to the Edlebrock 4.

I do appreciate the time and effort and lack of "What?? You don't do carbs!?} from everyone.

  I do have the Edlebrock owners handbook, and it's full of great info, but... who, me? Read instructions?  Ha!
  Outside things will keep me from doing this for some time, but as soon as I get it done I'll post the results. {Hopefully starting off with "Yahoo!!"}

Rat



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 5/9/2005 8:50 AM

Rat, the part number for the throttle plate adapter is EDL1481, and the kickdown adapter is EDL8022.  The springs come out of the EDL1464 Spring Assortment.  Those are Summit part numbers, but also are Edelbrock numbers in their catalog.

Here is a quote from the original topic, Very Little Or No Vacuum, when I was having trouble with my adapter, and was searching for the reason why the engine wouldn't run right:

" Derrek, I see that you have the Edelbrock throttle adapter.  I do not, and could not get it quickly when I changed over to the Edelbrock carb.  At first, I used a piece of All-Thread in the hole just below the large hole (where you have your return springs hooked to); I used nuts on the All-Thread to locate the throttle cable, cruise control arm, and transmission kickdown linkage and make sure that they travelled smothly and did not move laterally.  Apparently, this is what led to my problem.  Since the geometry was different (this hole allowed the throttle to move too quickly in relation to true engine demand, thus providing too much gas at the wrong time).

By moving the All-Thread into the large hole -- where you have your return springs -- I changed the geometry back to a closer relationship between throttle opening speed versus true engine demand.  In point of fact, the optimum location for this point is where you have yours -- with the Edelbrock adapter in place.  My problem was that I could not get the adapter when I needed it, and improvised.  Without knowing it, I was feeding the engine too much gas at the wrong time -- effectively momentarily flooding it.

Moving the All-Thread is just a stop-gap measure until I can get the Edelbrock throttle adapter; I will be ordering it through O'Rielly's tomorrow.  You see, where I have the throttle cable attachment at now has cured my big problem, but the throttle travel is now a bit slow and engine response is a bit sluggish because now I am not really feeding the engine enough gas at the right time -- but it is a lot closer relationship now than it was.

John"



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/9/2005 5:13 PM

HHT...
  Summit had the throttle lever kit and the springs, but the trans adapter will be shipped in about five days.  Total cost: $25.00.

   Hope this works, and solves the headache..

Thanks

Rat



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/9/2005 8:26 PM

HHT, in reading message 30, above, it appears to me you're looking at a picture of Derrek's linkage, adapter and all, correctly connected.  Is that right? You said "In point of fact, the optimum location for this point is where you have yours -- with the edelbrock adapter in place."
  It seems to me it would be greatly beneficial to MY hooking up the adapter, to see whatever you were looking at when you said that.  Is that possible?  Or, perhaps, if derrek sent it to you, I could impose upon him to sent it to me, as well...?

Thanks!

Rat



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/10/2005 3:25 AM

I'll change the step-up springs tomorrow, before I misplace them [again].

Again, thanks for all your time & help!

Rat



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/12/2005 9:58 PM

Well, put the springs in.. no problems, of course-- it was too simple for much to go wrong.  Then I checked my linkage against the pic HHT sent, and I have to say mine is different.
  I readily admit I'm not an expert on carbs or throttle linkage, but it seems to me my tranny linkage is adjusted by loosening a bolt and moving a sliding adjustment.  I don't know if they're all like this or not, but this sliding adjustment is at the moment set with the locking nut all the way forward.  I can try moving it fraction by fraction, and test drive after each move, but it sure would be simpler if someone knew how to set it right.  ??  {Is this how most of the tranny linkages are adjusted?}

Thanks!

Rat



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/12/2005 10:22 PM

But come to think of it... I'm still awaiting delivery of the tranny adapter, which Summit didn't have on hand.  Perhaps that will clear things up.  Maybe.



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/13/2005 9:16 PM

OK, I'm lost.  The tranny link adapter just arrived.  It's a metal bar about half and inch wide and three inches long, with five holes.  And two bolts.  And absolutely no instructions.  It's nice that Summit thinks all their customers will automatically know exactly how to install it and set it right, but...  guess who doesn't?
  Looking at what's installed now, I would think this is used to extend the slide bar that's there now, but I don't know 1] if that's right; 2] which of the four holes to use; 3] how to check if it's set right [other than a dozen test drives]. And I'm sure there's questions that won't come up until I try to install or test it.
  Can anyone help with this adapter installation?  A picture would be my first choice, but I'll take all the verbal assistance I can get, too!  :>)

Thanks!

Rat



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 5/13/2005 11:42 PM

I made my own adapter, based on scale photos of the one you bought, but the installation is the same.  As far as adjustment, you have to play it by ear... don't use my settings, because I am sure that I have different spacings on the holes in my adapter and I bent the slide piece so that it would slide smoothly.

John



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/14/2005 3:38 AM

Thanks, HHT.  That does change my mind about where the adapter is supposed to go. I'm not sure how raising that slide piece is going to change much, though. {I'm assuming the home-made adapter is the verticle piece near the end of the spring} Naturally, I'll try it anyway .

Thanks!

R



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 5/14/2005 8:24 AM

Rat, there is a slight difference in height and kickdown pin placement between the Edelbrock and ThermoQuad carbs when you keep the stock manifold; the adapter allows you to allow for the added height.  And since you also used the Edelbrock manifold, there is an even bigger difference because of the added height of the manifold.

On most installations, the adapter goes completely vertical; but the added holes allow you to move the slide piece forwards or backwards while still allowing you to keep it in a completely horizontal position so that it operates correctly.

John



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/14/2005 8:36 PM

Ah, yes...  that makes sense.  First chance I get, I'll experiment with it.  At least I have a fair idea what to do with the adapters...thanks!
  It's 80+ in Reno today, so I'm back outside.

R
{Microsoft must be 'fixing' things again....}




From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/15/2005 4:52 PM

Ahhh, the things you find, when you start looking around!  HHT, imagine that bright shiny spring in the center replaced by the throttle cable, you'll see what I saw.  When I put that carb in, I realized the cable was too low, so I built a little adapter that raised it, but I left it where I found it... right in the center where that spring is on yours.  And it was still too low.  When the tranny link tried to move, it was hitting the throttle cable before it even went half way.
  I inserted a spacer, raising the throttle cable about half and inch, and it fired right up and sounded MUCH better.  I can't go out for a road test just yet, but if it is improved when I do get out I'll post it.
  In the meantime, I'll {as usual} follow Dennison's lead and clean/lube the speedo cable & housing.  It's been about three years.
  I might even tighten up the connections on the Moroso Prelube Accumulator hoses and connect that back up! [If I get the leaks stopped...]
Again.. I do appreciate the help!  Stumbling blind into something, not knowing if you're doing it right, or if you should even be doing what you're doing, is a scary thing. An experienced hand pointing the way is invaluable!

Thanks!

Rat



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 5/15/2005 5:34 PM

WTG Rat!
Your detective work is an inspiration to us all,as we all  have been there,done that,if you own a winny.
I always enjoy these posts where one idea leads to another and finally it all makes sense out of the original fog.
And makes the next time it occurs to someone else a slam dunk to repair.
Nice to hear we are all in the same boat,err.....Winny

We finally warmed up  here,in faact the day lilies are starting to wilt.Im ready for summer,this was the 2nd wettest winter in Ca since they have measured rainfall here.

BooBoo



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 5/15/2005 5:50 PM

"Redneck, that is part of your emissions system -- it is the vapor recovery cannister.  That line should be hooked up to the left port -- full time vacuum -- to furnish vacuum to the vapor recovery system.  This supposedly scavenges excess fuel vapor from the carb and (I think) returns it to the fuel tank -- sort of a closed system."

Actually,dont the gas vapors collect in the charcoal cannister,then get sucked from there into the fuel intake and get burned?Im pretty sure thats it,but been a long time since I was a practicing competent mechanic.

I have that system,also has a one way vented cap on gas tank,lets air in under negative fuel tank pressure,but blocks off to prevent fuel vapors from escaping out from cap.At least I think its the cap allowing air in,didnt see any other way for air to get in when I recently was replacing/checking those pesky fuel lines.

Redneck should be ok having the system inop,and the air/fuel adjusted properly to compensate for the  air normally induced from that system.So long as smog cops havent dinged you,I would leave it alone.

If Im wrong,someone please post so.

BooBoo



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/15/2005 5:52 PM

Thanks, BooBoo, but the applause should go to HHT in particular and the site in general.  With my admitted lack of experience working with carbs, I wouldn't have even stuck my nose in there without some strong back up.  {Not that I'm assuming it's all fixed!  Not till after the test!}

OOPs Gotta run!  Yeah, c'mon warm weather!!

Rat



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 5/15/2005 8:22 PM

BooBoo, you are absolutely right.  And you have exposed my weak area -- emission systems!  I hate them, and usually disconnect them if possible.  Damn what the smog cops like!

John



From: west coast redneck
Sent: 5/15/2005 8:33 PM

---Thanks Boo Boo..Think I'll leave it capped off.It running pretty well now & if I hook up the system then I might have to start adjusting things.Lucky no smog cops up hear.They may be in Vancouver but I'm on the Is.Don't even have those Catalytic thing a ma bobs.Thanks again eh.



From: OldEdBrady
Sent: 5/15/2005 8:39 PM

Good Lord!!  If I EVER got any simgle spot on the Whiny Beggar's engine to look that good, I'd think I'd acocmplished something!



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/17/2005 3:55 PM

Oh, my!  It certainly is FUN to cruise up hills at 65!  I even purposefully slowed down on a hill to 50, and then hit the gas --- it was still picking up speed when I topped the crest!  I won't even discuss what it does on the flat stretches ... it might be used against me in court, lol.
  Even from a dead stop, it wants to jump and run.  {I apologized to the old girl for connecting the throttle wrong, making her seem older and tireder than she really is, but she didn't seem to hold it against me.  I think she enjoyed our little uphill run as much as I did}
  I certainly want to thank all of you for the great help and advice!
  And after Dennison reminded me to service the speedo cable, it was rock-steady from "0" to "75." {Before anyone yells...Yes, 75 is legal in Nevada.  }  Now... the next job is to take the slight wander out of the steering.  Luckily (coff-coff) "Someone" already sent me his info on doing that.

Again... thanks for the help!

Da{Grinning}Rat



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 5/17/2005 6:37 PM

Glad I could help, Rat! 

John



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/20/2005 1:30 AM

Man, it just never stops, does it?  In what is probably a related problem, when I went to drain the oil so I could hook up the Moroso prelube, the first half pint or so that came out was a bright antifreeze green!  Head gaskets, I'm sure, and the way this is going, probably a cracked head or two.

  When I was struggling up one of those hills on the way back from Death Valley, I thought I heard a 'pop' from under the doghouse, but I wasn't sure if I had run over something that had hit the RV {like a bolt in the road, maybe}, and I couldn't stop right then anyway, so I crawled on up the hill and eventually decided she was running about the same as usual so I drove on home.  I suspect that was when either the gasket went or a head cracked.  Or...*SIGH* both. {I know... the gasket would go first}  I drove another 200 miles or so...plenty of time, I suspect, for a head to crack.

She was running so good, too!  I can see another Grand already packing for it's trip to the repair shop...and then if a head is cracked --- probably half a grand more.

Is there anyway to tell 'from out here' if there's a cracked head?  Can I tell if I replace the gasket, or would it require closer examination?  If I replace the head gaskets and run it for twenty minutes or so, would that be enough time for the antifreeze to get back into the oil if a head is cracked?

Any and all advice, comments, suggestions, sympathy welcome!  Especially sympathy, lol.  {SOB... should this be on it's own thread??}

Thanks!

  Rat



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 5/20/2005 3:50 AM

This doesn't have to be a new thread... unless you want to title it, "Dear God, I hope it's not what I think it is!"  However, from a diagnostic point of view, it would be good to have it as it's own topic; I don't believe we have anything on the boards related to this.  Something like, "Antifreeze in oil/blown head gasket/cracked heads?" 

Beside the expected cost for repair, which is depressing enough, the worst part is that I can't imagine how bad a crash it must be to have this happen right after the "high" of getting the rig running 1A again.  Let's hope it's only a gasket.  If so, I'm sure that's something you can tackle yourself and save a heap of cash.  Scary as it may sound, that's something I would even do myself. 

- EmpatheticSob



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 5/20/2005 3:59 AM

That stinks!
If you are going  to pull the head,send it to  the shop and get it worked over.Awful  lot of work,at least get it magnafluxed to check for cracks.

Really sorry to hear that Rat.Sometimes the BS just doesnt let up.

BooBoo



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 5/20/2005 9:29 AM

Damn, Rat... that bites!

If you are going to pull the head, take it down to a good machine shop.  You might as well have the valve guide seals replaced while you have it off -- in fact, I would go ahead and do both of the heads at the same time.

Make sure that you have the head MagnaFluxed to make sure it isn't cracked (they clean the head completely, then hook it up to an electromagnet -- then sprinkle powdered iron on it.  A crack will create a break in the magnetic field, which will make the powdered iron show the crack in an exagerated way.), then have them re-surface the head for flatness.  This is a MUST if you are going to replace the head gasket.

As much coolant as you say pumped into the crankcase, you either have a break between an oil passage hole & a cooling jacket hole in the head gasket -- or a cracked block.  In fact, when you have that much coolant in the oil, it is usually a sign of a cracked block.  Lets keep our fingers crossed that it is just a head gasket, though.

If it is a head, then they are available.  If you can't find one locally, let me know and I will check with Carter Machine here in Amarillo -- they can get them.

John



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/20/2005 10:34 AM

I [somehow] slept on this, and now I'm wondering if it wouldn't be smarter to spend the bucks on a new engine, entirely.  Thinking back to the noise I heard, I suspect the block cracking would make just about that sound.  Besides,.... it simply COULDN'T be as simple as a gasket, not the way things are going.  I can too easily envision pulling the heads, replacing the gaskets, and STILL having that pretty green mixed with the oil.
  As for fixing it myself, or even doing any serious repair, there's a time element I can't get away from.  As I've mentioned, I recondition bikes for Burning Man, and that's only 105 days away.  I've already made arrangements for [sold] nearly 100 bikes, and will sell another 70 or so in the next few weeks {All to be picked up around the end of August}, but our strange weather has kept me from working on the bikes until now. In other words, I have 105 days to recondition 170-180 bikes, or about 2 a day, in addition to my normal work around these apartments I manage. And since I plan on not only attending the Event myself -in the RV -but taking my brother from Missouri for his first Burn, there's no way I can disappoint him by cancelling out.  I HAVE to have the RV running, within those same 105 days.
  After draining the oil last night, I poured it into a gallon plastic bottle and set it aside to settle.  By actual measurement, there's two inches of antifreeze in the bottom of the gallon bottle this morning.  That's probably a quart, or close to it.  From HHT's post, I have to figure the block is cracked. {Can you say, "%$#@%%$##@}?
  Anyway... any suggestions on changing engines?
  Thanks for the sympathy & comments -- I really need both.  Yeah Boo-Boo..., it was a low blow, for sure.  My landlord -who's also a good friend - thought I was crazy to put all the money into getting the tune-up that I did.  I think it's a good thing he's out of the country right now. {He's taking his 'ladyfriend' to Europe for two weeks}  If I get it all fixed before he gets back, I think perhaps I'll forget to mention it.  Just before he left, I bragged about how great it was running... *SIGH*

Rat



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/20/2005 1:02 PM

Well... all morning on the phone.  Nobody around here will touch it -replace or repair - for under $5,000.00.
  I'll give it more thought before I decide for sure, but I suspect I may give it up.  I'm thinking I'll put it on ebay for parts.  It has a complete solar unit, 120v, with meter,  inverter, and Charge Wizard.  Six brand new tires, with maybe 600 miles on them, and everything inside works except the dash gauges: range; refer; water heater; shower; toilet; two fresh water tanks [original metal, cleaned & sealed inside & out with POR-15] and electronic ignition. It has all new plugs & wires, rotor and distrib cap. It also has four one-year-old 6v deep-cycle coach batteries. And of course the Edlebrock intake manifold and four-barrel carb.  It also has the Moroso Accumulator Pre-lube.   And a 25-gallon blue roll-away dump.  It has an aux fuel tank in the Generator Bay, and it works fine. I may even include the Honda 600 portable gen.
  I just picked up some PC-11 epoxy to repair the BB dents in the side prior to "thinking about" repainting her, but right now that seems a bit pointless...
  It is driveable, but I don't know how much that cracked block will affect it. Can anyone give me an idea of how 'driveable' it might be, with a cracked block?  I'm sure I drove back from Death Valley after it cracked, but was I just lucky to get it home or will it keep running until cracked cyl heads stop it?  In other words, if someone wants to drive it from Nevada to say, Texas, after buying it, will they have decent odds of making it?
  I'm sure you guys know how much I DON'T want to do this, but I don't seem to have much choice.  It would be fall before I could even begin to have any time to work on it myself, and I can't just let it sit that long.
  Any other options anyone can suggest?

Thanks...

Rat



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 5/20/2005 3:32 PM

Rat,do you remember my Horror story of the mechs who ruined my engine with the 2000 Rebuild,then it cost me 5 grand to have it done right???
That included  new pistons,crank edlebrock carb,etc,but now I have a really nice running dependable engine.The guy restored old mopars,so really knew the drill.It was downtown automotive in Riverside,Ca,Dave or Pam if you should ever want to talk to them.It takes em 6  weeks though,they are really busy and rebuilds come AFTER they do the little jobs.

That said,you can get crate engines,but again,its a crap shoot.Maybe folks will tell you where they got theirs.Nephew got a dodge 360 i think,it was a dud,they did replace it,next one was good,but he had to R+R.It was a local outfit,cheapy priced engine.

IF you have it rebuilt,you MUST go to the BBB and research the guys,but even that might not help.My thieves had just changed names,so  they came up clear.Within 2 months BBB had em as NOT reccomended.After their MAJOR fraud on hundreds of us,they flew the coop.

Take some time to cool off and think about it.The answer will come to you,probably from the folks's ideas here on where to get it done right.

BooBoo



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 5/20/2005 3:38 PM

BTW,I   have blown headgaskets and flooded the oil  pan with antifreeze,thought no way can it just be a gasket,but  it  was.
BTW,arent there other ways for  oil and water to mix,besides head gaskets and block cracks?
Mechanics help please.

BooBoo



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 5/20/2005 3:40 PM

Dont give up on her.I didnt have a choice on mine,she was a business and we lived in her at the time.But now I dont regret the money to have a reliable MH.Another MH you are just starting from scratch.

BooBoo



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/20/2005 3:50 PM

Hey, boo.
  Yeah, thieves abound.  I'm looking at several options.  I can get a short block 360 for $659.00, or a long block for $1,405.04.  Right now I'm talking with a place the engine supplier suggested, to see what price they can come up with.  Also, a guy in the neighborhood who knows engines --I watched/helped him do some rebuilding on his own Dodge -- has offered to do it for about $600.00, working weekends, but I'm a bit doubtful.  Leaving an engine in parts over several weekends seems like an invitation to contamination.  Plus there's always other parts that need to be bought, that don't come with either long or short block, and I'm unaware of what experience he may have along those lines.  I also have to keep in mind.."What if it isn't done right, or it has new problems?"
  I just hope the RV shop comes up with a decent figure.
  I know I was lucky to get it home, and I don't want to crowd my luck by driving it any more than absolutely necessary, so selling it doesn't look like a viable option. I couldn't tell someone they could drive it home, and I wouldn't sell it cheaply enough so they could hire a tow for it.
  The shop says I would have to install a torque converter if I go from the 318 to a 360, but it wouldn't add much to the cost.  He says it's internal on the 318, external on the 360.
  Anyway... I gotta go find a dark corner to brood in...  {Actually... I'm just out of coffee...}

Rat



From: k0lde1
Sent: 5/20/2005 6:15 PM

mightybooboo wrote:

>Rat,do you remember my Horror story of the mechs who ruined my engine with the 2000 Rebuild,then it cost me
>5 grand to have it done right???

few years back i was out in reno andfound myself in need of a new
timing gear (older Ford 460; nylon teeth)

teh $600 repair was done poorly, and caused me to loose the engine.

getting another 460 rebuilt and installed was not cheap

<sigh>

Robert



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 5/20/2005 7:24 PM

Rat... DON'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL YOU PULL THE HEADS!!!!!!!!!

It will take you about 3 hours to pull the heads, and once off, you will know exactly what you are looking at.  Until you pull them, and look at the bores & old head gasket, you won't know diddley.  So please don't get yourself all in a tizzy until you do that, ok?

About 2 inches on the bottom of a 1-gallon jug, huh?  That is less than a pint, I would say -- not enough for a cracked block.  In fact, from your posts, it is looking more and more like a blown head gasket -- at the most, a cracked head.

Don't give up on the old 318 engine -- they were practically bulletproof.  Do like I said first, ok?  Then you will know exactly where you stand.

John



From: OldEdBrady
Sent: 5/20/2005 9:00 PM

Rat, I truly feel for you.  If the same thing were to happen to me, I'd be dead in the water due to my income being totally fixed.

But, if there is any way at all, KEEP HER!  You could come out way ahead.

I keep thinking of what could happen with me if the old Whiny Beggar had serious problems, rather than hundreds of small ones.



From: west coast redneck
Sent: 5/20/2005 9:23 PM

--To Rat.Sometimes these darn rigs can be frustrating.Personally I would find out for sure if it's just the gasket first. It would be a bummer after getting it running so well & letting a head gasket stop the fun. I've had a head gasket go like that & with tons of anifreeze in the oil too.A suggestion if you do do it yourself. When the water mixes with the oil it really gumms up the rest of the motor too. My mechanics after replacing the head gaskets run the motor up to temperature with deizel for oil twice. Cleaned her up inside spic an span.Good luck.---



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/20/2005 9:38 PM

Hmmm... I went out and dug postholes for a bit.  Didn't give the RV a thought...  But when I stopped, I realized I didn't know for sure how long antifreeze had been leaking into the oil.  If the noise I heard was the head gasket blowing, that was 200+ miles from home, and a lot of running time- -  at least four hours on the road, probably more.  Then I took the hill-climbing trip - - another hour or so -- and if that's all the antifreeze that leaked into the oil, in all that time, maybe it isn't a cracked block.
  I think I'll get the guy who offered to work on it with me to lend a hand checking out the head gaskets.  As tight as my time is, I can spare two or three hours to find out for sure, and maybe save 3 grand. {The final cost estimate for a replacement, installed -but without a lot of the necessities like fuel pump, alt, starter -- was roughly $3,300.00}
  If we do that... are there any sure ways of telling if a head is cracked, w/o one of those magnetic doomaflotchies?

Any of you old enough to remember L'il Abner, and  'mstphtcx' or however his name was spelled... who walked around under a raincloud all the time?  I feel like that today..  Thanks for the support!

Rat



From: W0X0F
Sent: 5/20/2005 11:10 PM

Hey Rat!

While perusing Craigslist (www.craigslist.org )  I found a 75 Dodge 4X4 flatbed forsale in your area it has a 360CI the whole shebang for $200.00!  Here is the direct link to the page (http://reno.craigslist.org/car/72121797.html ).  Good Luck!

Herb



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/20/2005 11:36 PM

Hmm.. that truck looks interesting.  But I noticed, even though he said it's been around the Reno deserts all it's life, it has California plates!
  It's been two weeks since he listed it...wonder if it's still there.  But..., I can't do anything with it until I know if I need another engine or just a head gasket.  I'll have to chance he still has it, if it turns out I DO need an engine.  Thanks for the info!

Rat



From: Im-still-Lefty
Sent: 5/21/2005 12:40 AM

Rat, so sorry to hear of your troubles. I have read the messages in this thread, and have to agree with HHT, and BooBoo, I doubt that you have a cracked block, or head. On these engines, the gaskets will corrode, and eventually fail, especially if the antifreeze isn't replaced/flushed every two years, or so. There IS a special test that can be performed to determine if a head gasket is blown,which cyl. it is, whether it is blown between a water jacket and cyl., or between a water jacket and oil passage (likely in your case), and whether the intake or exhaust valves are sealing or not. It is called a "Cylinder Leak-down Test" It is performed while the engine is intact, the plugs are removed, and they pressurize each cyl. with a special device that puts exactly 100psi. of air in it. Then, they watch to see how long (in seconds) it takes to drop to 75psi. A normal reading on a relativly tight engine will be around 3-5% leakdown (air will seep past rings slightly). If it leaks down too fast, they can use a stethescope to listen for the sound of air in the radiator neck (blown head at a water jacket) at the carb. (bad intake valve seal) at the exhaust pipe (bad exhaust valve) and in the crankcase (bad rings, or blown gasket) By performing this test one cyl. at a time, they can tell you exactly where the gasket is blown, and which head is affected. this test is not cheap due to the labor involved (about 2-3hrs. normally to be thorough) but is by far the most informational test that you can have done. You will need to call around to find a shop that can do it, most larger shops will have the equipment necessary to properly perform this test. hope this helps, Lefty



From: W0X0F
Sent: 5/21/2005 1:16 AM

Rat,

It's in Chilcoot, CA just northwest of Reno across the border.



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/21/2005 1:59 AM

Very interesting!  I was at Wal-mart, saw another old Winnie parked, with a guy looking thru the 'front gate' at his radiator.  I stopped to talk, and in the course of the discussion mentioned my possible gasket problem.  He said he had had exactly the same problem - a blown gasket - in his 72, and since he was on a "very" fixed income and had no other way to solve it, he took an odd chance.  He had heard of a thermal patch that was supposed to work, so he looked it up on the internet and for about $100.00 he bought some.  He said he was still driving the same engine, two years later.  He couldn't remember the exact name, but he said he knew it was listed under 'blown gaskets" on Google.
  It turned out to be: www.rxauto.com
  "Snake oil" was my first thought.  Without his face to face support for it, I wouldn't have given it any more thought, but if it worked for him, and let's face it... I have nothing but a little time & money to lose... why not give it a shot?  If it works...Great!  If not, I'm only out a little money and time.  And it 'might' be a handy thing to settle if it works or not.
  I'm willing to be the guinea pig, since, really, I don't have anything to lose but some $. and what's a few more of those, after the way this month has gone?
Does anyone have any experience with this 'thermagasket'? If anyone has tried it and it didn't work, I won't waste my time & money... but if no one has personally given it a shot, well, heck, I'll go ahead and try it.  Who knows...? We may all learn something new.
   Whatcha thunk?

Rat



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/21/2005 11:25 AM

Rick, I agree.  I've used jbweld on a LOT of jobs, with few disappointments.  I always keep some on hand. Here, I think we've pretty much come to the probability that I only have a bad gasket.
  I've found jb weld works great, as long as the surface is prepared right and it's left alone long enough.

Isn't it amazing how much money they want for relatively simple jobs??

Rat



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 5/21/2005 11:45 AM

Im willing to bet just replacing the headgaskets would  be OK,but as I said,I would never do  that much work  without having the shop rebuild em.I'd have em do everything they can do to em,sounds like money WELL spent in my book. Get magna fluxed,valves done,and heads surfaced,What the hey,get the exhaust side surfaced too.And Lefty gave good diagnosing advice.Plus why not  just price a valve job?Let them  diagnose for that?
Finally,you could try the sealer,but I wouldnt.I dont like half way fixes.Do it right.Nothing beats dong the job right if you want it dependable.

Still stinks though,man thats a rotton break,and yes I know The lil Abner guy Joe Pstflkt or whatever his name was.

BooBoo



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 5/21/2005 7:06 PM

Boo, normally I would agree, but I think I'm looking at this a little differently.  The guy who told me about it said it had been in his RV for about two years, so I don't expect a 'solid gold weld' out of it.  But I see it as a poker player might... is the pot large enough to make it worth investing X chips?  If I could have a chance to win a $100.00 pot, for only risking a $10.00 chip, I'd be in every hand regardless [almost] of my cards.
  Add another zero to both of those, and all I'm doing is risking a $100.00 chip for a pot that might be worth $3,000.00 or more.  Gotta admit the odds are right....
  But leaving the poker behind, I see worst-case scenerio as "I lose my $100.00" and get nothing of value for it except a little more experience and the satisfaction of having scratched my curiousity bump.  Should the subject arise another day, I could then say with certainty "It doesn't work.  Save your money."
   But... if it DOES work as advertised... not only could I then say -with certainty - "This stuff works!" and perhaps save another RV'er from selling his home because of a gasket he can't afford to fix "The Regular Way", but as icing on the cake, my OWN problem would be [maybe] solved.
  The 310 in Da Ratmobile is, except for this gasket, in really great shape.  Unless one of the heads is cracked, I would in effect be spending 3 Grand for a gasket.  Several years ago I had a head resurfaced and they said the interior of the engine was spotless!  It had no gunk, no build-up, no nothing.  So if I compare the two options side by side, I come up with: 
Option "A" best hoped for result= gasket doesn't leak.
  Option "B" best hoped for result = gasket doesn't leak.

Option "A" time involved = At least three weeks w/o RV.
  Option "B" =NO time w/o RV.

Option "A" potential cost = up to $3,500.00.
  Option "B" potential cost =around $150.00

Option "A"  Known duration of 'cure' =  potentially life of RV. Varies.
  Option "B" Known duration of 'cure' = Unknown. Only known example= 2 years.

Option "A" Known risks = I would have no control over work, installation, or quality of parts. A partial warranty is provided.
  Option "B" = All work done by myself, to my own satisfaction; however I would have no control over whether or not the product actually works. This is an uncontrollable risk.

Should the product NOT perform as promised, I would still be in my own driveway, not stranded on the far side of nowhere.  I could then go to a different option, having lost only a Benny Franklin and some time & effort. And could warn others to stay away from it.
  But if it works...!  How many RVers have paid thru the nose for gasket repair when they were on the road, unable to avoid using whatever "mechanic" might be around? At the price, it would be an expe