No Heat from Dash Heater

LJ-TJ · May 10, 2012, 03:16 PM

So! Took the rig out the other night to check out the Battery situation and turned on the defrosters. NO heat. Turned on the heater. NO HEAT. Thermostat so I order a new 180 skirted thermostat and replaced the old one. Fired up the rig and no heat. Checked the heater hoses and both were cold.

??

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 10, 2012, 04:52 PM

Pull engine cover. Are hoses to/from heater installed? May have been rerouted do to a leak

Is the push/pull cable connected the water control valve? Heater hose to from engine

Valve working?

If all above checks out, the heater core is plugged.

Dave

LJ-TJ · May 10, 2012, 05:18 PM

Hey Davey boy,here we go again. This is really getting exhausting. Heater hoses check out Ok. Push/Pull cable works smooth and looks to be working Ok. Is there some way to blow the heater core out without taking it out? Hm?

LJ-TJ · May 10, 2012, 08:11 PM

Well don't I feel like the horses bum. D:oH! It was driving me crazy and for the life of me I couldn't figure it out. I checked everything and everything was right. I had the dog house off and was staring at what ever and started working the heater control, and staring, and working the heater control and staring and then wait a minute! There on the heater valve the arm was moving smooth but the little brass thingy wasn't. Hmmmmmmm I pulled the heater valve off blew through it and nothing. Turned it to on and blew through it and nothing. It was seized . The control moved smooth as glass, as usual but the valve inside was seized. So I've got to see if I can find another but I think that was my problem. Dumb,Dumb,Dumb i??

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 10, 2012, 08:43 PM

In the face of "is this ever going to end" frustration we all make those little boo boo's.

A good cooling system flush may be in order though http://www.prestone.com/products/print/461?popup=1

A replacement heater control valve may be a bit of a challenge to locate though.

Dave

LJ-TJ · May 10, 2012, 09:19 PM

That I think is going to be a challenge. I'll have to check the crispy Bago tomorrow and see if it survived the fire.

jkilbert · May 11, 2012, 04:18 AM

Rock auto has the cable controlled heater valve $32. i looked under 79 dodge truck( i just randomly picked a year)

john

tiinytina · May 11, 2012, 06:24 AM

we have similar issue TJ our "H" valve is stuck but the controller seems to work.. sometimes it actually works... need to replace it just low on priority list....

Tina

LJ-TJ · May 11, 2012, 12:53 PM

Hey Dave you still around? Well guess what. Notta! I found another heater valve that works perfectly,hooked it up and fired up the old girl. Let her run for about 10 min. blowing cold air and watching the temp rise. Just as it got to the shut down point because it was over heating one of the heat hoses cracked a blew steam not anti freeze which I put in but steam. When I removed the defective heater hose there was nothing in it. I then removed the other heat hose (because you might as well replace both while your at it.) and nothing. There was no liquid in the heater at all. After a cool down period I re-started the engine and there was no coolant coming out of the heater fittings on block. Is there any way to see if the water pump is buggered. It's going to be a son of a gun to get off. Thanks Mate.

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 11, 2012, 01:14 PM

QuoteChecked the heater hoses and both were cold.

I missed that in the first post. At least one should have been hot between block and valve.
Did you have an overheating problem before you replaced the thermostat?
If no, then did you accidently put the gasket on such that it prevents the thermostat from opening?
Is the upper radiator hose getting hot when engine warms up? If not then thermostat is not opening or radiator is plugged preventing flow.
If radiator is plugged (sort of sounds like it becasue no water in heater hose sounds like no water in block) then water would not get through lower radiator hose to the engine block. Pull lower radiator hose and using garden hose at radiator cap see if water flows freely through radiator. When you pull the hose, water from block (vai pump) will flow out and the water in radiator will flow out. How much water did you catch? For reference an empty system holds around 30 quarts (30/4= approx 7 gal).
Will water flow if you remove the thermostat? (i.e is thermostat preventing water flow through radiator?)
Water pump sucks water out of the radiator. If radiator is plugged it cannot suck water out.
Typically with radiator cap off (at tank not extension), you can see water flow past opening. D:oH! Hmm, would require a mirror to see that unless you have a very small head.

And last but far from least, is not good juju to run engine with no water so use the capacity reference as a gauge as to how much you are putting in. SOme stays in the engine but the steam and no water in hose part worries me. Water from radiator not getting to engine.

Dave

LJ-TJ · May 11, 2012, 03:10 PM

I really don't want to tell you this but the top rad hose gets hot. The bottom rad hose is cold. The water flows freely from the top of the rad to the bottom. Nothing comes out from the engine.

LJ-TJ · May 11, 2012, 03:50 PM

Well I think I'm toast. I just unhooked the rad and ran water through it and it runs fine. My vote is a water pump and crap that's taking the hole front end of the thing. I can see a few cold beers and some big tears.

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 11, 2012, 07:55 PM

Not sure what you mean by pull the whole front end off.

You have to undo/remove both belts (PS pump adjustment bolts accessed through pulley slot which is bit of a pain).
Remove 4 bolts holding fan to fan clutch
Remove 4 bolts holding fan clutch and pulley to water pump.
Remove 4 bolts holding water pump on.

You are only replacing the pump section:

Which fits into the larger housing section:

You do not have to remove the housing.

Dave

LJ-TJ · May 11, 2012, 08:26 PM

WOW! Gotta think on that one a little bit but wouldn't that be nice. Maybe the air conditioner compressor makes it look more complicated than it is. Wow sure would be nice if it is that easy. By the way Dave thanks for all your help and support. Means a lot.

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 11, 2012, 09:36 PM

You are always welcome.

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=737.0

ibdilbert01 · May 11, 2012, 09:50 PM

TJ, I've never seen a water pump just fail to pump, usually the bearings go out on them and they leak first. Did you have an overheating problem before you replaced the thermostat?

LJ-TJ · May 11, 2012, 09:57 PM

I wish I could tell you as none of the gauges worked until the other day.However the top rad hose gets hot so that would indicate to me that the thermostat is working.However here's one of the culprits. The arm moved just fine unfortunately it was just moving around the pivot point but not turning the valve inside. Was a real sucker move because on the out side it looks and turned just fine.

ibdilbert01 · May 11, 2012, 10:24 PM

QuoteHowever the top rad hose gets hot so that would indicate to me that the thermostat is working.

If the engine was overheating, and the top of the rad hose got hot, I would make the assumption that the thermostat was not opening up all the way. Unfortunately I don't know much about the skirted thermostats the BB use, but memory makes me think they have a bypass hole built in them to allow some koolaid to flow when its cold and closed.

Also don't rule out that maybe the new thermostat is bad. Might want to stick the old one back in. And don't stick it in upside down, remember spring down! D:oH!

Wantawinnie · May 12, 2012, 12:37 AM

LT, is your engine a 318 or 440? The process is similar but the parts are a little different from my dealing with pickups anyway.

Just thowing some ideas out there as I have not had a water pump fail like that either. Did you lose or drain the coolant at some point so the the engine may be airlocked around the pump? When all coolant is out I fill the radiator and block with the thermostat out and then install the thermostat. Once that is done install the upper hose and continue filling the radiator up to the proper level. Always worked well for me.

Two nights ago I replaced a radiator in a Dodge Cummins diesel and filled the radiator up to the top. The block was dry and the coolant would not go into the block until I removed a small plug that Cummins has next to the thermostat in order to purge the air. As soon as I opened that air poured out and the radiator level dropped as it entered the block. I will mention that the lower radiator hose got warm first on the Cummins as well and it took quite some time for the upper hose to get warm. Cummins engines usually idle really cool though.

LJ-TJ · May 12, 2012, 07:17 AM

Yep! Tried it. Good idea though. You lads have come up with some great ideas and I tried them all. If anyone wants to know how to drain anti freeze from a 440 allow me to assure them I am now an expert. As much as I don't want to it looks like a new water pump. NUTS D:oH!

ClydesdaleKevin · May 12, 2012, 08:19 AM

There is one other thing you can try to completely rule out the thermostat...and that would be to remove it, reinstall the housing and gasket, start the engine, and let it warm up. If the thermostat was bad, or the new one was defective, then, while it will take a while to warm up without the thermostat in place, it will definitely warm up both hoses eventually...and send some heat to the heater box.

Check your hose routing as well...a PO may have replaced hoses and hooked them up wrong.

I've replaced a water pump myself on a 413, and while its tight in there without taking the radiator out, it wasn't an impossible job.

Kev

JDxeper · May 12, 2012, 09:18 PM

TJ
I assume you used ye olde skirted thermostat!

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=2629.msg16475#msg16475

LJ-TJ · May 12, 2012, 09:29 PM

Hey Dex, Yep! I got one last trick to try and that's to take out some kind of plug just on the top of the block and refill the rad. Seems some folk think I may have a air lock but I can't figure why that would happen now. We'll see. Other than that I'm going to try and pull the pump off. The rad has to come out because there's not enough room between the rad and the fan. To complicate it even more the chassis air conditioner condenser is in front of the rad. This is not going to be a fun project for an amiture but can't afford to have it done.

JDxeper · May 12, 2012, 09:36 PM

You are a Brave man!

LJ-TJ · May 13, 2012, 12:03 PM

Executive Decision: After a great deal of consideration and struggle with all the help and time you guy have put into this project for me I'm going to bite the bullet and send her to the shop. With the air conditioner hoses running all over the place and having to take the rad out and all the things that can go wrong. Yep! bite the bullet and take it to the shop. I didn't want you lads to think all your help wasn't appreciated but this one is over my head. Thanks Dave and gang. D:oH!