Re: 440-3 Cracked cylinder head replacement

DaveVA78Chieftain · June 04, 2012, 09:25 PM

Congrats - however are you getting this one:
http://www.reds-vintage-parts.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&product_id=40&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&pop=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=100001

or one of these:
http://www.reds-vintage-parts.com/index2.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=41&category_id=21&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=100001

The first set (3462346) are not a MH head and is one of the expensive HP head

Only 2 of the 2nd set (3769 902) are MH heads. If one of these did you make sure he knows you want the MH head?

Did you find out anything of interest from 440Source?

Dave

LJ-TJ · June 04, 2012, 09:54 PM

Hey Dave, tried a few times to get hold of 440 but know luck. Thanks to you I got hold of the folks with the second set of heads http://www.reds-vintage-parts.com/index2.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=41&category_id=21&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=100001
got the heads with the spark plug ports. $125.00 plus shipping $50.00. Should be in Detroit around next Monday. Unbelievable. Hm? Thanks for all your help. Don't worry your not off the hook yet. I still got to get it back together yet. W%

LJ-TJ · June 04, 2012, 11:15 PM

Hey Dave what make are your instruments? Auto Meter? Where'd you get them? Hm?

DaveVA78Chieftain · June 05, 2012, 07:55 AM

I have 270 degree Black 7 color Glowshift guages
http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/Black-7-Color-Gauge-Series.aspx

Unfortunantly they are not as visible as I would like them to be in daytime. I would use the white ones if I did it again.
http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/white-7-color-gauges.aspx

I then purchased two 3 gauge pods off ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=3%20gauge%20pod&_sop=15

Wideband A/F
Intake Vacuum
Water Temp
Tran Temp (outlet of cooler)
Tran Temp (Inlet of cooler)
Oil Pressure

I use the original vacuum gauge to monitor ported vacuum for fuel efficiency.

I had to place tinted window film over the Wideband gauge as it's way to bright for nighttime operation.

My view is it does not matter if you use stewart Warner, Auto Meter, GlowShift or another brand. The more information you know the safer you will be in the long run.

I also monitor coach battery voltage and current. I intend on adding AC voltage, current and frequency as well as chassis battery charging (voltage/current). I intend on eventually upgrading to a 130 amp Ford 3G alternator at some point. Then there is my research into adpating a 454 TBI system to the the 440. Just a bit more expensive than I care to put the $ out for now. You could say I just keep busy dabbling!

Dave

LJ-TJ · June 07, 2012, 09:13 PM

Well Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls and childeran of all ages, tomorrow is the big day. I get one head back from the machine shop and the other is expected in Detroit Monday. That gives me three days to install the first head. I think I'll try the drivers side first as it's a#@%*( to put on. Yah just can't do anything there's just no room to maneuver. So we'll see what happens. As soon as I get the head from Detroit she's headed for the machine shop. Hopefully all things being equal I hope to have the old girl up and running by Friday. There's a Auto Swap meet on the Sunday and I've dismantled the 440 I bought and am hoping to sell the parts off in hopes of covering my cost of purchasing it. W%

DaveVA78Chieftain · June 07, 2012, 09:48 PM

Drumrollllllllll. Thats the plan! Dave

LJ-TJ · June 08, 2012, 04:00 PM

The first big lesson I learned on this project is a good penetrating oil is of the essence and boy do I have a product for you. It's called In-force and it's made in the U.S.of A. Now I know you Yanks are set on your Liquid Wrench but I'm telling you once you try this stuff you won't go back. Don't believe me just ask Dave and Mary or Wonder Brad. This stuff is amazing. I sprayed it on may exhaust manifold and the dare bolt undid. You got to check this stuff out.

http://www.bgprod.com/products/aerosol.html

LJ-TJ · June 08, 2012, 08:23 PM

Hey Guys does anybody know if any of the head bolts in a 440 go into the water jacket? Cause if they do I just screwed myself because I didn't do anything special but bolt them in and torque them down.

DaveVA78Chieftain · June 08, 2012, 09:02 PM

I do not have a clue myself however, do you not have a 2nd 440 engine partially torn down that you could use to answer the question? Besides the odds are in your favor that you will never dig this far into it again.

Dave

LJ-TJ · June 08, 2012, 09:13 PM

Duh! Been a long day. Never thought of that.
Am learning some interesting stuff though that I might be able to contribute to someone else if they ever decide to take on a project like this. Hm?

salplmb · June 08, 2012, 09:57 PM

i am pretty sure that the studs go through to the water jacket. i redid the heads on my 440-3 and that was the way mine where. just use a little thread sealant and u will b fine. if u replace the studs or bolts make sure that u dont get them to long or thread them in to far into the water jacket and block the flow of water.
hope this helps a little.
sal

LJ-TJ · June 08, 2012, 10:00 PM

Thanks Mate, I guess I'm going to find out the hard way. I put new head bolts in today and just put the goop on the bolts that came with them so

?don't know I guess well have to see what happens. NUTS just my luck. N:(

ClydesdaleKevin · June 09, 2012, 07:37 AM

Sounds like you are doing a great job! I know nothing about the 440, but on the 413 even the water pump bolts go into the coolant channels/water jacket. Since you put the goop on the bolts, you should be fine.

My favorite penetrating oil is PBBlaster, but I've never tried InForce.

Keep up the good work!

Kev

DaveVA78Chieftain · June 09, 2012, 08:54 AM

If you bought new head bolts that came with some "goop" then I am fairly sure the "goop" is the right "goop" for the job. So, I wouldn't worry about it.

Dave

DaveVA78Chieftain · June 09, 2012, 09:23 AM

I hate to ask this question this far into the game but you did verify the new head gaskets also have the extra cooling holes?

Dave

LJ-TJ · June 09, 2012, 10:00 AM

:)rotflmao :)rotflmao

Yep!but not until I dry fitted the head and near broke my back putting it in and then went Oooops does this head gasket have cooling holes in it.BUT I'm glad you asked. I guess I got to learn some things the hard way

LJ-TJ · June 10, 2012, 03:59 PM

Yeh! I know it's a book. Listen I pulled the oil pan to replace the gaskets. The book I have says the bolts should be torqued to 200 inch pounds. I tried but it started to squeeze the cork gasket out and I handn't made the 200 inch Lbs. Is 200 right. Hm?

burt6666 · June 10, 2012, 04:39 PM

I don't think so...not if it's already squeezing the cork out.If you over tighten it you will split the gasket,in effect ruining it.

DaveVA78Chieftain · June 10, 2012, 05:27 PM

Dodge manual does say 200 in/lbs. That is 16 ft/lbs (200/12=16). 16 ft/lbs is a reasonable amount for a 5/16-18 bolt. (200/12=16). Same value is listed for 69 through 79

For reference from Introduction section Page 4:
Max value for a Grade 5 1/4-20 bolt is 130 in/lbs.
Max value for a Grade 5 5/16-18 bolt is 200 in/lbs.

Max value for a Grade 8 1/4-20 bolt is 185 in/lbs.
Max value for a Grade 8 5/16-18 bolt is 280 in/lbs.

Dave

LJ-TJ · June 12, 2012, 04:49 PM

I was just giving you guys a brake. You should be so lucky that I forgot about you. Yes I tightened the oil pan bolts to 200 inch pounds. Looks pretty good I don't antsipate having any problems. Just got back from a 4 hour run to Detroit to pic up the new head. Looks good. Got back in time to drop it off at the machine shop and the boys are going to have it ready by noon tomorrow for me. I'm telling ya these are a first rate group of lads. Also decided to pull the water pump and am sending it in for a rebuild in the morning. Thanks Frank your the little angle that sits on ones shoulder and whispers in the ear saying BUT WHY DID IT OVER HEAT IN THE FIRST PLACE. D:oH! so rather than take any chances I figured I might as well get it worked on while every things apart. So we're getting close. Hm?

Froggy1936 · June 12, 2012, 07:47 PM

PSSSSTTTTT!! dont forget the anti freeze

Frank

burt6666 · June 12, 2012, 11:06 PM

Hopefully no more probs...got my fingers crossed for ya !!!!

ibdilbert01 · June 12, 2012, 11:22 PM

Also be careful not to air lock it when putting the coolant back in.

Maybe fill it with either the thermostat out, or leave the thermostat housing loose while filling and when it starts to leak, you'll know its filled. And of course, no adding cold water to a hot engine. N:(

Also if you have an infrared thermometer, use it. You'll want to keep a close eye on the engine temp, the water temp gauge will not be accurate if its air locked.

LJ-TJ · June 14, 2012, 08:25 PM

So all was going well until I started to reinstall the rockers. Got everything in place and started to tighten the bolts to 25 ft. lbs and except on frig'n bolt. It at way more than 25 ft lbs and is still lose. Any thoughts? Everything is the same as when I took it off so they should tighten down but I don't want to go and start reefing on it.

Froggy1936 · June 14, 2012, 11:06 PM

Something is wrong !! Is the valve lifter still in its bore ? Is the pushrod in the lifter ? Is the assembled height of the valve spring the same as the original ? Is the cly head the same thickness as the original ? What ever do not force or overtighten anything If you cand figure it out we will need pictures of problem ! Or get an experienced person to look at it

Frank