Re: 440-3 Cracked cylinder head replacement

LJ-TJ · May 28, 2012, 02:29 PM

Just got a call from the machine shop. One of the heads is cracked on the 440. When I checked the block the stamping reads 440-10 is there a difference in the 440-3 heads. Do I have to find a head that comes off a 440-10 Thanks T.J.

LJ-TJ · May 28, 2012, 04:30 PM

For what it's worth the block casting is 36(5)98830.440.10
The braketed 5 is I couldn't tell if it was a 6 or a 5
I couldn't find any other identifying numbers any were on the block there was a 440T something about were the intake manifold gasket was but that's about it. I guess my question is the car 440 head the same as the light duty truck 440. According to the Travco guy there is a difference it the heads because of the water cooling ports. I'm getting real tight on cash here and can't afford to get the wrong head.

ibdilbert01 · May 28, 2012, 05:23 PM

That's probably a 6. 3698830 1972-78 http://www.stockmopar.com/mopar-engine-casting-numbers.html

Cracked head and blown head gasket, the engine has overheated. Would of been nice had the machine shop been able to repair the head.

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 28, 2012, 06:53 PM

440-3 Motorhome head
Casting number: 3751213 (P/N listed on the site is for the gasket not the head) http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/motor/36.html

These heads have the extra cooling ports and also use a smaller diameter spark plug than was used in the cars.
440-3 spark plug is also tapered and does not use a gasket like the 440-1 does.

Note: When buying head gasket sets you have to purchase the intake gasket separately.

Dave

440-1 (with gasket on right)
440-3 (tapered [no gasket] industrial motorhome plug on right)

LJ-TJ · May 28, 2012, 06:55 PM

Be patient,be patient. I'm trying so the block says 3698830.440.10 But the Dodge Manufacture Vin says R39CA3S221916. Do I have a 440-1 Car/Truck engine in which case I can get a head easier or do I have a 440-3 in which case I don't stand a hope in

finding one. HELP before I shoot myself. D:oH!

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 28, 2012, 07:36 PM

Not positive but I believe the block casting number is the same for 440-1 or 440-3. The difference is in the head. I have not really found anything difinitive stating that the casting number is different between the -1 and -3 blocks. I am positive about the spark plug differences though.

Dave

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 28, 2012, 07:47 PM

There is a stamp pad that should read xT 440 E on the drivers side front(?) of the block. Manual says "Top of block adjacent to front tappet rail".

x= year of mfg
T = Truck (industrial "-3")
440 - 440CI
E = cast crank

Dave

LJ-TJ · May 28, 2012, 08:04 PM

Dave you a Prince. Thanks for you patients. I just went out and checked and what I have is J 440 T X and then a iron cross type symbol. Below that is a 7 big space and a 20

Oz · May 28, 2012, 08:10 PM

Dr. Dave has many, many "patients" here. He's fixed me up right plumb several times!

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 28, 2012, 08:13 PM

Just to be sure, pad is on front of block under A/C bracket (drivers side of thermostat housing). Mine appears to read 7T 440 E but is a bit dirty at the moment. Did not notice anything else there.

Dave

The whole story:

LJ-TJ · May 28, 2012, 08:56 PM

Yep! Bang on. On the left side of the motor under were the air conditioner compressor bracket was. It didn't look like there was any more. I can check tomorrow but don't think so.

LJ-TJ · May 28, 2012, 09:24 PM

Dave I hate to be a pain in the .....but can you tell if I should be looking for a 440-1 head or a 440-3 head. Thanks Mate. I got the beer if we make Jims

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 28, 2012, 10:30 PM

All I can give you is an odd answer. The hot rod community is using the Truck block (440-3) with the automotive heads and do not seem to be having any issues. The Truck block has improved "stiffining" so it is more reliable.
If you do change, then you need to change both. I would give 440 Source (http://www.440source.com/) a call and ask them that question to get the best answer.

EBAY listing: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_
nkw=mopar+440+cylinder+head&_sacat=0

Then there is Craigs List

And junk yards for used heads (-3 and -1 versions)

Dave

LJ-TJ · May 28, 2012, 10:54 PM

Thanks Dave appreciate all your efforts. I'll take this information and head out tomorrow. At least I'm armed that could make me dangerous.

Let ya know how things turn out.

ClydesdaleKevin · May 29, 2012, 08:14 AM

Not to over simplify, but Dave is dead on when it comes to the easiest way to check which heads you have. If you have the bigger diameter sparkplugs with the gasket, you have the automotive 1 heads. If you have the skinnier spark plugs with no gasket, you have the motorhome heads. Try calling some RV salvage yards like Arizona RV Salvage for matching head...if I was still in Florida, there is an AWESOME RV junkyard in Bunnell, Florida on Route 1 that has a LOT of old Winnies and would have checked it out for you, so maybe if someone lives anywhere near there they could check it out for you?

Kev

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 30, 2012, 04:37 PM

After looking around a bit, I think you can also use the later model "452" casting heads:

Looks like the "extra cooling" holes are the triangular ones at top between cylinders 1 & 2 and 3 & 4.

Notice the "906" casting performance head does not have them:

I derived this by finding this "Motorhome" head ad on craiglist:
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/2997162454.html

another "452" craiglist ad:
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/pts/3020016460.html

This is the type of question to ask 440Source.

This may mean you would have to use the gasket type spark plug though.

Dave

LJ-TJ · May 30, 2012, 09:52 PM

Thanks Dave, spent the last three days digging around a desert up here to no avail. There up here but nobody will part with them. It's looking like there made of GOLD up here. So I went to the casino to day and bough a 440 out of a 1973 that's been sitting on the ground with no cover for 15 years. God knows what I just bought but I had to make something happen. I'm going over tomorrow to pull the engine out. All I know is that it's a 440. Should know tomorrow night or early Friday weather I hit the jackpot or not or if I'm still on a loosing streak. You guys will be the first to know. i??

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 30, 2012, 10:09 PM

Hope it works out for you. One of these days you will have to teach us Canadian speak as for the life of me I have no clue what desert and casinos have to do with searching for car parts!

Dave

joanfenn · May 30, 2012, 10:33 PM

It is called multi-tasking and we are quite good at it.

Froggy1936 · May 31, 2012, 11:21 AM

Hey TJ after all this dont forget to check why the original engine overheated enough to crack the head (or did it freeze up over the winter) Something caused your heartache !!!!!!! Wich if you do not correct it you will get to do it all over again But practice makes perfect

Frank

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 31, 2012, 12:41 PM

There was a lot leading up to this point that is spread out over multiple threads.

Gauges did not work (fixed) so he did not know temperature. A leason learned of their value.

No heat from heater. Bad Heater control valve but was the point at which the overheating issue symptoms started to surface.

This rig is a recent purchase and I suspect this is mostly an "PO inheritance" issue.

Of course there is the possibility he has been running around in the desert and casinos far to much.

Dave

ibdilbert01 · May 31, 2012, 09:20 PM

QuoteThis rig is a recent purchase and I suspect this is mostly an "PO inheritance" issue.

Frank brings up what I've been concerned about, we still need to find out the original problem. Keep in mind, he did drive this a very long way home, and also to Jimcos and back last year with no "known" mechanical issues.

LJ-TJ · May 31, 2012, 10:40 PM

We're done. Bought another toasted 440 To day for $200.00 for the heads and once we got it home them home they were the wrong ones and I done spending money on these old girls. Going to do an inventory over the next few days and start to sell stuff off. Lauren's pretty adamant about going to Jims this summer but we'll see. i??

tiinytina · June 01, 2012, 08:06 AM

NOOOOO... you gotta let us/me help... we can find the head you need down here and get it to you... just need to know exact head you need (head stamp from old one).... My mechanic down here is 100% positive we can find one for you....

Tina

DaveVA78Chieftain · June 01, 2012, 11:50 AM

Pictures of the casting number and the combustion side would be helpful. The parts book shows 2 P/N's for 440-3 heads

72-74: 3751667
75-79: 3870551

Documentation on the web gets a bit confusing. You will find a motorhome casting listing of 3751213
that shows a P/N of 3751218 however P/N 3751218 is for the 74-79 head gasket. Thats the only 440 head casting number I have seen in the lists. As I said in post 15 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=6150.msg24526#msg24526), that person is saying his motorhome head has casting number 4006452
which is P/N 3769954 (http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/2997162454.html).

Do to this confusion, it would be nice to have pictures and info from your heads. The confusion may be simply due to a base casting (i.e. 4006452) can be used with different attachements where-in the final P/N's will be different depending on the attament combination.

Dave