'74 Indian - can you change 17.5's wheels with 16.5's?

[440fury]

Hello all!

I've got a chance to get a brand new set of 16.5 radials and wheels off of a 1976 minni winne (mbh300 chassis) for very little money.  Will the rims fit on my '74 Indian (rm350 chassis)   ?


I know alot of people are going 16's so, if they clear, I'm guessing the 16.5s will clear?  any ideas??  thanks.

[JDxeper]

Do a search.  The info will answer the question.  A brief answer is, if the front brakes will clear the rims they will work.  The 16.5's have about the same clearance as the 16 inch rims.  That is given that rims are 8 lug on the correct center spacing and have the correct hub hole.

[Oz]

JD and several others covered this on 16" rims pretty well.  The info should at least guide you pretty well on the factors involved:

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=3391.20

[audioguyinMI]

The only way to know if they will fit is to mount the front wheels.

I successfully put 16" Ford dually wheels on my Indian which had 17.5's.  The calipers rubbed on the front wheels initially, but a few minutes with a die grinder took care of that problem.  The left was worse than the right.

I really think that minor differences in casting will make/break the situation.  The individual calipers actually vary enough that you might be fine, or you might have to grind a bit of material off of one or both.  You might have to repeat that service when replacing the calipers for brake service.

My own experience tells me that you can make it work.  My best advice is to meet the other party at the tire store (my guys are a truck dealer that works mostly on school buses) and mount the fronts.

If I recall correctly, 16.5's being mostly Chevy (from my previous research when I was in your position) you need to make sure that the center hole is large enough to fit around the rear brake drum as well.  Again, in some cases it's very close, in some they simply wont work.  This is another issue that will crop up when brake parts are replaced.  Fortunately, that doesn't come up very often.

If it's really that good a deal, meet up and try to mount them.  That's what I would do.

[audioguyinMI]

Do a search.  The info will answer the question.  A brief answer is if the front brakes will clear the rims they will work.  The 16.5's have about the same clearance as the 16 inch rims.  That is given that rims are 8 lug on the correct center spacing and have the correct hub hole.

Guess I should have read your reply first.   W%

At any rate, ditto that.

[440fury]

The only way to know if they will fit is to mount the front wheels.

Problem is I got a shreaded 17.5 and no spare on my unit.  the 16.5's are on a complete dead minne winnie an hour from here. 

The guy wants $500 bucks for the whole thing, and the tires are brand new I just finished looking at them. the rims look like they should work I have a good 3/4 clearance between my calipers to the rim on my indian so the 1/2' rim difference should not be a problem.I hope.

the center hub holes are the same width on the two units.  I might take the risk.

I guess worst case would be just sell the thing again or part it out and scrap it.  ps It does have a fresh rebuilt 360 and new 3 core rad. gotta be worth something.

thanks!
Dave

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=3391.msg25913#msg25913
If you have a M300 chassis, then 16" rims will fit over the single disc brake caliper.
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=3391.0

As indicated on that thread, JD did it to his
(http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=3391.msg8174#msg8174)

Rims - 17.5 x 5.25, 8 lug, 6.5" bolt circle diameter.

If you have a M400 or larger chassis, 16" rims will not fit over the dual disc brake caliper.

Having said that, audioguy is saying he has mounted 16" Ford on what should be a dual caliper with some minor grinding. 

Dave

[JDxeper]

They will work on the rear duals but the front brakes are the question.  Calipers with dual pistons are a problem.  Single piston are not.

[audioguyinMI]

Having said that, audioguy is saying he has mounted 16" Ford on what should be a dual caliper with some minor grinding. 

Dave

It is true that I've mounted Ford rims.  If the VIN and our research are to be believed, it is also true that I have the dual caliper system.  How would we go about solidifying our confidence?  I can remove a wheel and take pictures for those in the know to confirm.  Is there an obvious visual difference that I can just crawl under the thing and quickly give 440Fury some additional confidence that they would work?


No question that they work for me, but I don't want to lead anyone astray.


Wait.  I just re-read that.  Dual caliper and dual discs?  I guess I don't need coaching to understand that.  I remember the brakes being large, but I think I woulda noticed an extra brake disc on the front.  It's dark and wet here, but I'm curious enough to go and look.  I gotta go and see now.  Maybe I'll take the camera too.  Wish me luck.


-Bill

[jkilbert]

just to clarify.....Dual piston caliper. meaning 2 pistons in each caliper. As an example think brakes on a sports car. ie: 6 piston calipers like on a Corvette. With 2 pistons you have a larger total surface area which equals increased stopping power.


john

[audioguyinMI]

Actually, I would think motorcycle caliper, but it's the same principle.  Dave's post with "Dual Disc" in bold combined with lack of sleep had me a little gullible I guess. 


Okay, so here are a couple of pics.  I think I'm looking at a dual piston caliper, yes?
Wasn't sure if there was a better/different angle I could have used, but hopefully someone can identify those with confidence.
I guess $500 for a whole motorhome would be worth it in any case - presuming you can get it towed reasonably.

I had forgotten how close all that stuff is - there really wasn't that much material that had to come off.  IIRC, there may have been two surfaces, but one was definitely the problem - wheels wouldn't really turn before the material was removed.



Keep us posted.
Bill

[440fury]

Picked it up last night. actually ended up driving it home. ran really well very smooth down the hwy. the guy thought it was dead but just had no clue about anything. few liters of ATF and it was good to go.

I will be swapping the rims this evening. never had time last night.

heres a pic of the beast.  its actually a 73' not a 76.

[salplmb]

not to hijack your thread but is that going to be a parts rig or will u try and resell? cause there could b some parts we all could use and u could recoup some cost.
thanks
sal

[jkilbert]

unless my eyes are playing tricks because of the hubcaps. It looks there are standard wheels like on a 3/4 ton p/u and not budd wheels on the front of that coach. if thats the case you'll either need to find 2 more wheels or run mismatched sizes which isnt the best thing to do.


john

[audioguyinMI]

 +1 on that action.  That is a van front end and a dually rear.  Of course, you still have brand new tires for $500, and the motorhome will easily get your money back.  Just means you're still looking for two wheels, and it doesn't matter what kinda tires are on them, if any.


Still a nice find.  Oh, and when your swap the knackered 17.5's onto it, just put the shredded one on the inside of one of the rears, and call it good.

[JDxeper]

I have a stack of 16.5 rims, all with tires not so good.  I have 6 dually rims and 3 rims like on the front of the mini winne.   All are avaliable.  The mudders here like the 16.5's.  All so have 4 17.5 rims that would fit into your collection. 

You should be able to pick those 2 rims at a salavage yard.  BTW freight on a single rim is well over $50. You can buy new for about $60.

[dezertgurl]

Congrats on your find! That's a great deal.

Re. wheels, if it hasn't been beat to death already, we swapped wheels & tires from a Ford truck onto our 73 Brave, and it wasn't too hard to make things fit. Much nicer to have the aluminum rims instead of the original steel monsters.

[440fury]

Had to find two more 16.5's for the front.  I should have known better seeing there were hub caps on the front that they are regular van rim's.    it's crazy you would have to have two different spare's when owning a mbh300 chassis. I thought someone must have swapped them but its how they were in the brochure http://www.winnebagoind.com/products/previous-models/1973/index.php (minne winnie)

Had to grind the calipers a bit to clear but everything works fine now and drivers 100% better.

thanks again for the help!

Dave

[audioguyinMI]

Good tires make a pretty striking difference in the ride, don't they?

[junkyarddogfan]

not attempting to steal a thread, and granted i have not taken them off to see how the hub is, but audioguy how did u get 16" ford rims, obviously non-coined, to fit the dodge chassis where the wheels are the coined style?
appreciate any info that can help like what year wheels u used, what lug nuts, etc.
thanks.

[audioguyinMI]

obviously non-coined

It is not so obvious to me.

What makes you think they are not coined wheels?  That is, presuming I understand the meaning of the term correctly.

Can you clarify?

[junkyarddogfan]

clarification: I know dodge wheels of that era are coined..when I said "obviously not coined", I meant that I can't remember seeing 'coined' Ford rims.  You said you replaced your 17.5" coined Dodge wheels with 16" Ford wheels, which I said were 'obviously not coined' as I have never seen any...

Now, if the ford wheels u replaced the Dodge wheels with were indeed 'coined', what year and chassis ford truck did u get 16" coined Ford wheels from that worked?

If they were not coined Ford wheels, again, what chassis and year did u use and what did u use for lug nuts?

Thanks again.

[JDxeper]

Ford rims are also coined. Just can remember the year range. I believe from the late 70's to the late 80's

[Oz]

Well, we learn somethinig new every day which defies what would normally seem "obvious" with these vintage RVs.  I'm sure they're not common but, yup, there are 16" Ford coined rims for the 1 Ton dually...

http://www.silvermoonparts.com/16x6_865_1TON_FORD_STYLE_COINED_DUAL_WHEEL_p/329600.htm

$98 each, weight, 65lbs.  Capacity 3,315 @80PSI -  Pilot 4.86, 5.0 OUT

A photo:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ford+coined+wheels&view=detail&id=B0984578651032101565FABB2F64CCBFD63112A1&first=1

You can certainly call the company in the first link and ask what specific year and model applications and what lug nuts are needed.

[JDxeper]

I gave $60 a piece for mine and thought that was a rip.