Four down towing

[knuckleheadpower]

Sent: 1/4/2007 12:02 AM


I need to tow my 1990 buick century wagon home from arizona to chicago. I have a tow bar, but does anybody know what modifications, if any, need to be done to four down tow it. I really don't want to disco the CV's

[denisondc]

Sent: 1/4/2007 9:57 AM


If thats an automatic tranny, Im pretty sure towing it with the axles turning would ruin the transmission in the first half day of driving. The trans oil pump only turns with the engine running, and the ATF would be quickly be spun out of the spaces between frictional surfaces. Even stopping every 50 miles to run the Buick's engine isnt advised.
There are electric pumps you can get, probably from camping world, that circulate the ATF. They go into a tranny cooler line, and they run from 12 volts.
If you could borrow/rent/buy a tow dolly, the problem would be solved; having the drive wheels on the dolly.
If your Buick is a standard transmission, I would still be anxious about the needle bearings on the input shaft.

[Elandan2]

Sent: 1/4/2007 9:59 AM


If you are going to only tow the car once, I think that the best solution would be to rent a dolly from someone like U-Haul.  If you have to haul it four down only once, disconnecting one of the half shafts would be the most cost effective route.  You only have to disconnect one side because the differential will free wheel and then the transmission will not be turning.  On the other hand, if you are planning to tow the car regularly, you could get a driveshaft disconnect or transmission pump for it and set it up to tow easily.   

Rick

[Lefty]

Sent: 1/4/2007 10:40 PM


I agree with both of the above, towing with the front wheels down at distances of over 25 miles, or at speeds over 35 mph will destroy the tranny in short order.
I have used an electric pump as mentioned, and they are great if towing will be a frequent event. However, they arn't cheap and not practical for a one-time tow job.
Neither is a quick-disconnect half-shaft (if you could even find one for a Century wagon) for the same reasons.
A U-Haul tow dolly rented one-way might be the best option, They charge based on distance for one-way though. you'll have to see how much they would charge first. But you can buy one for $350-$750 New or used and keep it for future use (always comes in handy)

Disconnecting one of the CV shafts is a great way if you don't mind a little work at each end of the trip. Not difficult, but is a greasy job. & cost is free if you do it yourself.

[moonlitcoyote]

I am seriously thinking of buying a vehicle I can tow 4 down. Which I think is either most any standard transmission or 4 wheel drive. Anyway, if I can find something in my price range, what do I need to add to tow it 4-down? Brakes,lights,tow bar? And which are mandatory and which could I do without for a little while?.. MJ

[ClydesdaleKevin]

 Since you are on a very tight budget, and since this probably isn't covered under toads, this is what you want to do:Get an older standard transmission vehicle, the lighter and smaller the better.  By older I mean something that still has a steel bumper.  Then get yourself a tow bar from EZ-Lift...rated for 5000 lbs, and come complete with brackets you mount to the steel bumper by drilling holes in the bumper.  Cheapest decent tow bar around, cost about 150 bucks brand new.  You'll also need to get safety chains or cables to go from the RV's hitch, crossed, to something under the tow vehicle like the stabilizer bar...something other than the bumper.  You can even make your own, just make sure the chains are rated for at least 2500 lbs each, and use heavy duty links where they connect, also rated at least 2500 lbs each.  Way cheaper to make your own, since you can get chain cut to length at Home Depot and Lowes, and they have the links there too.The last thing you need are tow lights.  You can get the magnetic ones that go on the roof of the tow vehicle and have a long enough cable to reach the RV...or if its a hatch back you can get ones with flaps that hang in the hatch back near the top.  Cost about 35 bucks if you shop around.That is all you need right away provided you keep the vehicle light.  You won't need a Brake Buddy if you do keep it light, which are very expensive.  Some states are starting to require Brake Buddies with break away switches on all tow vehicles, but as long as you keep the vehicle small and light you'll be fine.So yeah, you can do it on the cheap...you just have to find a small older vehicle with a standard transmission and steel bumpers.Kev

[moonlitcoyote]

 Kev.. Thank you VERY much, thats what I needed to know. I started searching craigslist for an inexpensive older manual transmission last night. All the sites I went to on the web only spoke of newer cars, 2011 and such...MJ

[ibdilbert01]

Kev is the king with all wheels down!   He's pulled many of miles with various vehicles that way and I'd trust his advice any day of the week!

If your handy with a welder, you can make your own base plate to attach a universal tow dolly to.   Thats exactly what pop and I did a years ago with his jeep.  We googled base plates for his vehicle and figured out how they were mounted.   




The ends of the chain links fit inside the two inner spots with a pin/clip.   The same for the tube style tow bar.  Ours looks like this, but the ends are wider,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLOW-OUT-Sale-Reese-8001-Blue-Ox-Tow-Bar-/251137534120?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a78f6a8a8&vxp=mtr#ht_4183wt_1163
(Reese 8001 Blue Ox Tow Bar)

We use these lights on the back,
http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/trailer-lights/12-volt-magnetic-led-towing-light-kit-66186.html

These chains are what were using...
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth-inch-x-14-ft-truckers-chain-97711.html

Check your state laws for brake requirements, some states require them and you can just use a brake buddy. http://www.brakebuddy.com
(Our state requires anything being towed over 2000lbs to have brakes, someday I'll obay that law)   D:oH!

And as Kev said, make sure the vehicle can be flat towed, it will say in the owners manual.   Most Manuals will flat tow w/out any issues and a hand full of automatics will as well.  And some automatics have kits that you can add that circulate the transmission fluid so you can flat tow them.  Just do your research!   

As for any driving tips, remember there is extra weight, so stopping distance should be kept on your mind.   Your longer, so be careful when changing lanes.   And be gentle on acceleration, as a mechanic you'll thank yourself.  Also be careful not to get yourself stuck in a situation where you'll need to back up, as you wont' be able too while flat towing. 


In this picture: (My company issued truck)



You can see two small holes I drilled in the metal part of the bumper.  I can quickly bolt the tow bar and flat tow it, its a standard.    Its an 03 S10, and they seem to be fairly reliable and cheap.   The odometer is just passing 300k miles but I religiously do oil changes every 10k miles.  (Well ok, one time it was more like 18k) The good thing about flat towing a truck is you have the bed to put more stuff in, like fire wood and lawn chairs, maybe even a mother in law or a small child.   

[moonlitcoyote]

Thanks for all that good info, very helpful. $25 for the tow bar? That has to be a misprint. But if it isnt and I bought one then I still have to make myself a base plate right? I am assuming the base plate is sold seperate?

In the pic of your company issued truck, I see the holes but not sure how you hook a tow bar to it. Does the tow bar have points or whatever that just go into the holes and bolt in somehow?

I have been researching different manual transmission cars that I have found on craigslist but I cant really find any info on flat towing them. They are all 5spd manual tranny mostly ford and honda but I guess they are too old to have any info listed. I'm going to keep searching. 'd like to know which are good to tow before I go and check them out.

[ibdilbert01]

My tow bar is kinda old, not sure they even make them like that anymore.   Basically had two U shaped brackets that the end of the tow bar fit into held by a pin/clip.  These 2  shaped brackets just had a hole in them and one bolt (per) held them onto the bumper.     It was designed to be installed onto metal bumpers.   

Now days because of all the plastic bumpers, they sell a tow bar that mates up to a matching base plate.  The base plates have to be compatible with the tow bar, unless your fabbing your own up like we did, in that case you just ad-lib with your own ideas.

I would think most manual tranny cars can be flat towed, but you want to confirm to be sure.

[moonlitcoyote]

Well I bought a car to tow, but now I'm really lost when it comes to the tow bar and base plate. The front of the car has 2 tow rings but I assume I cant use them for anything correct? I also looked at the universal tow bars that u-haul sells but I dont see a way they would bolt up to the car. ... I see that the base plates and tow bars have to be compatible, so does that mean I have to buy both from the same place? I hope I can find something alot cheaper than what blue ox is asking.


Another question.. The receiver on the homebago is about 2.5 ft off the ground, so how in the world do you hook a car to that? I do believe my little car could probably drive right under the back of the homebago.

[ibdilbert01]

The base plates have to be compatible with the car as well.   Factory Tow rings you cannot tow with.   And if you run into issues finding a matching base plate with a tow bar, it might be worth your while to find a local place that sells hitches and take good notes.      The receiver for the hitch can be bought in many configurations, some that drop the height of the ball, like these:





What kind of car did you get?  We're all hoping you bought a BMW Isetta?!?

[moonlitcoyote]

Being on a very tight budget right now along with the fact that I have 2 perfectly nice mini vans I went with the cheapest manual transmission car I could find, which was a 1993 Honda Civic DX for $800.

The base plate that matches the car is around $350 from blue ox, I have not found any other company that sells base plates other than roadmaster and they are basically the same. Does that mean if I buy a base plate from blue ox, I also have to buy the tow bar from them? This is so frustrating, if we had our welders and equipment that is in storage in Colorado, we would just build a base plate to fit.

I had originally thought that a drop hitch was what we would need, but I have no idea how level the tow bar is supposed to be. And I haven't actually measured it, but it looks like the tow bar will hook to the car about 2 ft below where the receiver sits on the winny and I know they don't make drop hitches that will drop the ball 2 ft.

[Oz]

Honestly, for all the trouble and expense, you could buy a tow dolly and have no issues with any car you'd want to tow and then just sell it when you're done with it.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

I googled the images of 93 Honda Civic DX cars, and yep, with that plastic covered foam bumper you'll need to buy or fabricate some sort of base plate.

Our friend Julie has a very similar car, also a Honda, that she tows behind her 90 Holiday Rambler.  She found a very affordable solution:  She found some good old boy welders, and they welded on steel bars that protrude through the lower holes in the plastic grill, then they welded onto that a square steel crossmember...and Julie simply bolted her el cheapo EZ-Lift tow bar brackets to that.  Its not removable and/or hidden like the expensive base plates, but it works!

I seem to recall her saying it cost her a case of beer...lol!  Start looking around for small welding shops...you might be able to get off cheap.

As to the level of the tow bar, yes, you want it as level to the road as possible.  In our case, the Jeep is higher than the RV hitch, so we use an 8 inch drop receiver, mounted upside down, to raise the tow bar to the level of the Jeep bumper.  Worst case scenario, you could use the lowest drop you can find, then when you have your welders do the front mount bar on the car, they can weld uprights to the crossbar to the height you specify, then weld another crossbar to that, which is where you would bolt on your tow bar brackets.

You can do it on the cheap, but you would have had a much easier time of it had you bought an even older vehicle like an 80s VW Rabbit, or Civic, or Omni, etc., as they all had thick steel bumpers you could tow from by just bolting on the brackets.

Kev

[moonlitcoyote]

Honestly, for all the trouble and expense, you could buy a tow dolly and have no issues with any car you'd want to tow and then just sell it when you're done with it.

Actually, I looked into that and I cant tow my mini-van unless I put it on a flat bed. But thanks for the thought.

You can do it on the cheap, but you would have had a much easier time of it had you bought an even older vehicle like an 80s VW Rabbit, or Civic, or Omni, etc., as they all had thick steel bumpers you could tow from by just bolting on the brackets.

Kev

Thanks Kev, if we had our welder thats exactly what we would have done, but no matter which car I bought I think I would still have the problem of my winny being so high off the ground. I was going to go ahead and buy the base plate from blue ox but I am worried I will spend the money and find I cant lower the ball enough on the winny. I may look for a tow dolly on craigslist and see if that would be a cheaper option for now.

[JDxeper]

You can get extend drop hitch inserts at most auto parts  or the internet they can drop over 6 inches.

I should have looked at the other posts D has the answer.

[moonlitcoyote]

We may have a solution, I bought a universal tow bar from U-haul today and I have a friends BF coming over either Friday or Saturday to take measurements to build me a bracket that will come out from the bottom of the car then up the front to a more preferable height. I searched all over the front of that car today with the bumper off but couldnt come up with a way to connect to the frame except at the tie down brackets where the blue ox baseplate would attach to. SO we will stick with attaching the man made bracket in the same way/place the tie downs are attached. So it may be ugly, but it will be removable by taking out 3 bolts on each side. I'll attach pics when he gets it built.

Oh and kev's bumper in that pic is a LOT closer to the ground than my homebago. Or at least it looks like it. The center of my 2  in square hitch is 22inches from the ground.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

This is our setup: 

You would have to simply reverse the drop...ours is upside down to get more height.  As you can see, it makes a big difference...this one is an 8 inch drop from Blue Ox.

Kev

[moonlitcoyote]

Thank you for the close up pic, I understand the concept, and I have searched online but the biggest drop I could find for less than $200 is 10" and since the car's hook up point is 8in above ground and the winny hook up point is 22" above ground I would need a drop of 14". Thus the reason to build the bracket to come up the front of the car.

[gadgetman]

I see your skirt touches the ground, if you cut it so its off the ground you will get less rocks thrown at your car You are sweeping the road as you go ! You should charge DOT for that

[ClydesdaleKevin]

LOL!  That is a couple of year old picture, before the new rubber shear springs went in for the Mor-Ryde suspension.  We also used to travel a lot heavier then.  Still riding lower than it should, since the previous owner put in the totally wrong shocks on the rig's trailing axle...he used way too short 4-Way shocks by Trailblazer, which are blown and leaking since they weren't designed to handle the weight of an RV.  Brand new Monroe RV gas shocks are going in before our next trip, on all 3 axles, so not only should the ride be improved, it should raise it up a bit in the back over the collapsed shocks.  If its still not satisfactorily high enough when all is said and done, we'll swing into the Mor-Ryde factory in the summer on our way through Elkhart, IA and get them to adjust the rear suspension.  Its designed to be raised up to 3 inches by just relocating some bolts, but you need a lift and super high jackstands to do it, since the frame of the RV has to be supported, with the suspension hanging free, to do the job.  Not an option we have living fulltime on the road.

Kev

[moonlitcoyote]

ok, Got it done. Here's a picture of the baseplate a friend made for us. It's not very pretty but it brought the hitch up high enough to be level with the winny.










I just need to make the safety chains and buy the magnetic lights now.

[Lefty]

We had an '85 Toyota Tercel wagon (2wd, not 4wd) with 5 speed tranny. Roadmaster offered the baseplate for it suprisingly, and it was in the hidden hitch style that unpins and you can't tell the car is even equipped to hook up a towbar. It curved up from the front engine cradle (where it bolted to) to a height of roughly center of the grill. Then it had hook up points there to attach the folding towbar assembly, which puts the bar about 20" or so off the ground.
We used it frequently, and never a problem.
It even held up when we lost the brakes on our Winne going down a mountain & jumped a curb at 50+mph, went airborne, and took a corner with the inside wheels off the ground in an attempt to avoid colliding with the traffic stopped at the bottom of the mountain at a redlight. After stopping, the car was still securely attached, and undamaged. I unhooked it and drove to get repair parts in it afterwards. Just a reminder when fabricating your own design, you never know when the unexpected will happen, so don't scrimp on safety. Whatever you build should be strong enough to rip the car in half before it fails...it might have to be that strong someday.

[ibdilbert01]

Safety Safety Safety, anything can and will happen!!!!