Full Time Winter Living

[Jeff]

Sent: 12/5/2001 1:42 PM

I have now lived full time in my 1978 Winnebago Brave 26 footer for over a year.  But, climate in San Diego is one thing, living full time in this rig in say, Idaho, which is an idea of mine, where there are real winters is a whle different story.

What I am looking for, please, is guidance on exactly what I should do to prepare my rig for full timer living in a winter environment.  For example, I think I'll probably have to do something with the piping underneath to protect from freezing.  Maybe I'll need to replace the water heater and/or furnace with units that are heavier duty and pump out more btu's (heat).  Etc.

I welcome, and in fact need you collective guidance on this topic, and look forward to the replies.

Thank you and God bless all of you, Jeff in San Diego

[jvf]

Sent: 12/5/2001 4:27 PM


Jeff, if you are staying at a place with hook-ups you certainly want to use a 1500 Watt space heater.  My experience is to use the main furnace to get the temperature up to 70 and  then the electric heater will keep it there.  Water heating was no problem.  I also used heat tape and pipe insulation on the water hoses leading in.  In very cold weather I left the water trickling a little but this is risky if your drain freezes up.
One question:  I am in Washington State watching the rain and dreaming of San Diego.  Why think of leaving such a place!  Spend the summers in Idaho.
Jim F.

[MeanJean]

Sent: 12/12/2001 12:02 PM


You will need to put some type of skirting around the entire perimeter of the rv in order to make a semi-insulated dead air space underneath. And I also recommend using the heated wire wrap on your pipes.  Good luck.  Mean Jean

[moonlitcoyote]

Wow, I didnt know they made LED's to replace fluorescent tubes, can you tell me exactly how you wired those together and how you wired them to the fixture.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

http://store.marinebeam.com/led-fluorescent.html

The ones he used look to be smaller than his fixtures so he custom wired them in.

Dave

[serenitygirl64]

I am wanting to escape Southern Cali and winter has been a serious concern of mine as well.  I have lived in snow states in the past so some of the basic that go with winterizing homes and vehicles is the same for RVs.  However, I have concerns to snow weight on the units roof and thought that when I make my move to a state that snows I would do so in the spring so I can build a rv cover to handle the snow... I am curious as to how to keep ice from forming on walls of my 76 Minnie and not rated for those extreme cold temps.

[SoakedKarma]

Wow, I didnt know they made LED's to replace fluorescent tubes, can you tell me exactly how you wired those together and how you wired them to the fixture.

Snipped power leads off bad ballast used 2 wire nuts to attach LED positive/negative pigtails to old wiring in parallel.. Used short section of 1/2" PVC pipe hot glued to back of LED light tube and Thin Light housing to make up for depth of fixture bringing LED's close to cover.. 

"12V 24V SMD LED Light Tube Bar PURE WHITE FULL ALUMINUM GLASS BODY MARINE RV" from eBay Seller; horizon_two $131.25 abt 2 years ago they still sell them... bought a lot of 12 each bright white and cool white.. cost < $14 each if you wait for price to be discounted, $175 when not on sale.. I use 3 for each fixture and combine the color temps which seem to glare less than all Bright White imo..
After paying $43+ for replacement 30 watt ballasts for 3 of my 11 lights, upgrade was in order when new one failed in less than 2 years..  I see the price has dropped by 50% for the Ballasts my fixtures require.. The lessor power drain of LED makes it a no-brainer imho...

[SoakedKarma]

I am wanting to escape Southern Cali and winter has been a serious concern of mine as well.  I have lived in snow states in the past so some of the basic that go with winterizing homes and vehicles is the same for RVs.  However, I have concerns to snow weight on the units roof and thought that when I make my move to a state that snows I would do so in the spring so I can build a rv cover to handle the snow... I am curious as to how to keep ice from forming on walls of my 76 Minnie and not rated for those extreme cold temps.

I have seen roofs caved in from snow weight stored in the Sierra's and North East.. You don't indicate if you will be living full time or storing.. As a full timer I have climbed up on the roof using a push broom to clear snow.. My rig has a very strong 1/3" thick single piece fiberglass 38' roof cap with no seams tube steel rafters and wall framework.. Unless buildup is more than 12" thick I don't do anything as the snow provides extra insulation.. I clear snow from around drain vents on roof.. My Shower P trap extends below bottom of coach and freezes so I keep a small jar of Ice melt to keep it clear, about the only place I don't have heat tape applied..  I don't get ice buildup on outside walls but do get icicles off the skirt where the roof drains.. With HWH coach jacks I tilt ever so slightly to the sunny side of coach so drainage is mostly on warm side..  I do remove snow buildup from bumpers as design leads to bumper mount rusting from buildup..

[dezertgurl]

This thread is old but still relevant, so I'll add my 2 cents. I'm new to full-time RV living but not to winter weather, and we get too much of it here!    So my focus was to minimize or eliminate cold air flow.

First I used 2" foamboard with a silver backing to block off overhead vents during winter months, insulate those outside doors to the underseat compartments, and insulate the odd compartment under the head of the bed.

Then I put a skirting around the bottom (long pieces of lumberwrap plastic sandwiched around 6" insulation batts, screwed to wooden uprights at the corners and to the bottom of the house right below the outer siding). There will be slight air gaps but this eliminates the worst effects of wind, blowing snow and most of the 4-legged pests. The lumberwrap was free, and best of all it was tan just like my trailer!

Next project will be to put a layer of felt "denim insulation" between window and storm pane on the windows that face windward. These windows won't be opened nor do they have a view. I'll make window quilts for the windows which need to open for ventilation and light, as they won't have storm panes to warm them up. These storm panes are the kind which attach to the inside and prevent the louvers from opening once they're in place.

This trailer already has a water hose with thermostatically-controlled heater, and I added a 125 gallon propane tank so the furnace can bear the brunt of the heating (power cost would be prohibitive to run an electric heater steadily, plus I don't trust them for safety reasons).

Other precautions include letting water trickle on subzero nights and possibly constructing some kind of dead air space around the sewer pipe so it doesn't freeze if we get to -30 like last winter! I also try to open a window for at least a short while each day to reduce condensation, but a dehumidifier would be a good idea too.

Snow buildup usually isn't a problem here, if we get a deep snow it's likely to be dry and fluffy so no weight to worry about. But if there is an unusually wet heavy snowfall I'd try to get as much off the roof as possible without injuring either myself or the roof!

[Oz]

Very good stuff in this topic!

This thread is old but still relevant,...

I read a post on another forum by an ex-member who had a very negative attitude about a few aspects of CWVRV.  One of the things they said was that all the threads were old.  My reply was exactly as quoted above.  Still relevant.  As far as I can tell, these old RVs haven't "evolved" into new technology on their own so, the vast majority of what was applicable 20 years ago is still applicable today.  There may just be some new technology or items or methods which are newer which can help us with our options.

That's why it is also good that some of these older topics are being "recycled".  It allows the new things to be added to the old things, giving everyone a broader wealth of information and options to consider.

[Froggy1936]

Hmm. As this is a Classic site We Need Classic Info, The stuff that applies to newer rigs 1995  and up is mostlly irrelevant to us.  Funny i was at a camping place the other day picking up some parts when i said 1977 The parts man said i thought all those things had turned to stone or rust by now ! Frank

[Oz]

LOL!  Yeah, all our parts are now petrified!  Good phrase... Classic RVs need classic info...

[dezertgurl]

There are obviously some of us "experienced" persons around who are intelligent enough to prefer a simple, elegant classic to the techno-junk sold today! Or as they say around here "if it ain't broke don't fix it! 

[Nuttcaze]

LOL!  Yeah, all our parts are now petrified!  Good phrase... Classic RVs need classic info...

recently I had to replace the steering gear box on my rv, my friend/mechanic told me I should look into getting a new pitman arm if they weren't too expensive, he said they can be a pain in the butt to take off sometimes, so when I looked for a new pitman arm, for the first time ever (and sure to not be the last time) I kept coming up with "Part Discontinued" over and over, my friend joked that it wasn't a good thing to see when my rv is also my house, got a little chuckle from that, luckily I found a new pitman arm on ebay. I wouldn't mind having a newer rv but by the time I ever got the money to upgrade I will have made too many memories with this one.

[DRMousseau]

As the wonderful Oz stated previously here,.... always good to have some of these older topics recycled a bit.

I found the waste tank outlet frozen today,... right up to the gates! Nothing serious yet, but started heating the space as a precaution and so I can drain the tanks before I leave. The main problem here is a "drop" from this compartment, to the exposed outlet, outside and below the compartment. It's of flex material that retains a bit of water and jus builds up ice, causing a little sag that increases the problem.

On a more serious note,.... I have ICE building up on the roof!!!! I noticed the snow cover holding nicely, much better than the ol' Winnebago. So insulation is certainly much better. But when I noticed ice slipping from the metal roof of my daughters home, I thought I'd better check my own more closely.

It would NEVER make it thru the rest of winter without immediate attention!!!! I do have a slight incline to the port side (lol!) to shed rain and water better, but ice doesn't shed like that. I should have used a number of small manageable tarps to cover and assist in the periodic removal of ice and snow without the roof damage of shoveling and sliding ice off. Even walking on the ice and snow cover, can risk damage to the thin aluminum skin.

Serious ice buildup is something that doesn't occur with those RV's unused and unheated thru the winter. And the relatively small rooftop of most will tolerate typical and reasonable snow loads quite well. I haven't the "snotty" icicles that were heavy and common with full-time life in the ol' Winnebago. The result of heat loss thru the ceiling/roof that constantly melted the snow and ice that flowed off and built up on the grill, bumper and skirting.

But I'm concerned of the 1/2"-1" sheets of roof ice, blowing off the top while traveling the highways next week into warmer climes. A hazard to following motorists that I'd be likely responsible for. How can I remove this excessive ice??? I'm a bit reluctant to use salt or typical stuff since I have a bare aluminum roof skin. What "deicing" options do I now have??? I'm considering a heavy salting jus before I leave, with hopes of heavy rinsing rains as I journey south. Any other suggestions???

[Rickf1985]

I think if you just tap on it with a broom handle or such you will find it will break up easily and is probably not tuck to the roof. There is enough flex in the roof that you will not damage the roof as long as you are not beating on it and don't try to peel it off. Just let the loose stuff fall off and the other stuff will come off on its own. I think most of it will just fall off once broken apart. Do it in a sunny day after the sun has shone on it for a few hours to loosen things up if possible. That will leave what is left to melt away. Stay away from vents and skylights.

[DRMousseau]

"A sunny day", he says. HA!
"A broom handle", he says. HA! I believe he's thinkin one of those "OLD" wooden ones. ya.

And all this time I thought the dimples I had seen on some, was hail damage from the past!

In Michigan, we average 3 sunny days in Dec,... those days are less than 9hr and I think we only had about 2 1/2!!! Temps might hit 30 today, falling from now thru Mon when they'll bottom out at 0 with a high of 10. I expect it to be sunny then, usually is when below 10 degrees in Jan. But the big lakes are still open,... that brings cloudy lake effect snows.

I'm going to gently brush the snow off, and any loose ice. I thought about flexing the roof a bit from the inside,... but jus no way!!! The bedroom flexes the most, and that ain't much now. And I keep my distance from any cold and brittle, sealed areas. Don't want any cracking for leaks which are worse in cold snowy times. There's always a light wet layer under the snow and ice that freezes overnight or on extreme days. That ice build up is a problem on mobile homes here, sliding off in sheets, it's a danger by doorways. But I don't even have that gentle of slope.

Wednesday might see the high reach 32,... cloudy of course. And a continuous snow fall Thursday thru the weekend,... I'M HEADED SOUTH THUR AFTERNOON!!! Still thinkin' a salt/chloride mix Wed night, and a good sweep Thur morning before I leave. And a hit a truck wash next week.

Think I could get on a runway if I faked some wings on this??? Have them deice it before I take off???

[Froggy1936]

 !-!You have to remove anything i?? on the roof before getting on an interstate The law requires all veh to be snow and ice free before traveling on an interstate ! They will fine and tow ! violators  ! You are also financially responsible  :(for any damage caused by snow or ice coming loose and causing damage , Like a loaded semi losing control and killing 50 people and ruining a $ million dollar load !But seriously if you can find a heated garage that will let you park overnight ! Frank

[beaverman]

A truck wash will be able to access roof and the water, even cold, will melt the ice away

[Rickf1985]

Salt is bad enough but calcium would be death for the aluminum after seeping into the seams! Not to mention what it would do to the windows, both aluminum and glass!

Snow is a fantastic insulator so if you have a decent layer of snow then you should be able to pull that off with no ice underneath. You may get flash freeze of the little bit that is left but that is not the problem, it is the big stuff that has to come off.

[DRMousseau]

We got about 6-8"+ on the ground, about 3-4" or more of snow on the roof, it's been settled and melted a bit from inside heat loss. And got about 1/2-3/4" of ice in the worst spots. Some melt does drain and I get an icicle on the front right corner and some build up down the front right side,... that's mostly because the front 6' of the coach roof has a good slope and I'm leaning slight right. But not the edge of "teeth" like the ol' Winnebago or the mobile home. The melt forms an "ice dam" along the snow edge, "a horizontal icicle" that grows and holds more melt back each day.

Thought of a truck wash, but it might be 50mi before I find one here in the north. And thought of turnin' up the heat inside and jus hosing it down till the majority was gone (well water is about 50 degrees). Something I'd do at the last minute while warming up to leave, then the excess water and chunks would slosh off with road motion in the first few hundred yards before it froze, leaving a thin ice skin of nothing serious and maybe a few little icicles hangin' on the back. If I leave the hose turned off for more than 20 min, it will freeze solid on me layin on the ground, if not drained completely,... it's often in my tub to thaw before I need it.

I really need a good roof with a smooth overlapping shoulder OVER the edge, instead of the edge trim ON the top of the roof edge. The gutter edge is enclosed in a solid chunk!!! And I don't dare open my canopy now, there enough ice in that already. Jus a slight crown would be nice too. I'd have icicles from the trim and down the sides,... but much easier to handle I think. Who knows,... hard to handle Mother Nature sometimes. Gonna have to rethink this ALOT before I spend another extended winter up here.

On a good note,... water supply and plumbing hasn't been a problem in the Cruise Air II, except for that hose,... and the exposed drain loop below the waste tank compartment. I prop a cardboard box around that and put a hair-dryer in it,... clear in about an hour or two. Wouldn't have that problem if my grey gate didn't leak slightly,.. something else to fix when I get south. I also don't have much for ice build up on the inside of the window sills yet. I try to keep condensation in check, the worse is the lower edge of the windshield,... the coldest spot in the coach, and they are the biggest windows. But then, ZERO is jus a few days away!!!

I knew that the worst sub-freezing (below 10) days would be challenging, and didn't wanna stick around here so long. I've seen many out-of-state coaches headed south lately,... and with the snow finally falling, others arriving are jus weekend snowmobilers and skiers that are "GLAMPING" it from the big cities in the lower part of the state. They have their challenges too, I suppose.

[Getoutdigin]

Hello Everyone. Great source of info here. I haven't started full time camping yet, but found out a thing or two from having parked the MH here in Cleveland over the winter. I found my awning cover (the Aluminum hinge part) had some ice damage, water got into the joints froze and popped the hinge apart. Before I sold my sewing machine I made a set of insulated curtains. I can tell they made a difference in the shot time they've been installed.
Thanks in advance.
Philip

[Oz]

Excellent innovation.  Thanks for sharing it with us.  Photos would be super so we can see how it looks.

[DRMousseau]

Time to once again,... recycle this seasonal topic.
I HAD considered a new topic of info, but there's some great experience here, and thought I'd follow-up my last reply in this post and add THIS SEASONS latest updates and Ideas.

As a seasonal "snowbird" and full-timer, I departed the cold during mild weather jus a week or so after my last reply. Sweeping snow and up to AN INCH of ice from the roof as I headed out for the warmer climes of Florida's Emerald Coast. A thin layer of water under it all had loosened it and needed only to toe-tap here and there to break large sheets and sweep them away. A week later,... sub-zero temps hit, and I was glad I departed when I did.

THIS YEAR,... I will be unable to escape, and be forced to face the entire harsh winter season of Northern Michigan, in my otherwise comfy "upstairs apartment on wheels"!!! AND, I'm trying something new, yet common among those who live aboard small water vessels year around here, in the harbors of the Northern Great Lakes. Many who store boats and RV's have them "shrink-wrapped" tightly, to ward off the harsh winter. Those who live aboard year-around will use a technique of wrapping "loosely" to provide added protection with full access, some on the water in marinas, others in "dry-dock".

Since I'm semi-permanently parked for my extended stay,... I've constructed an oversized solar "green-house", much the same as dry-docked live-aboards. The uniqueness of my circumstances did require some GREAT considerations!!!

I needed to reduce the heat loss from the howling sub-freezing winter winds, AND minimize ice and snow build-up and the accompanying inconveniences. I began with a light-weight upper support of 12' 2x4's on top of the RV.

The supports are tied in tension together with a doubled-up 1/2"x 600lb nylon "ribbon". These are anchored to the ground with 30" auger-plate ground anchors. The 20' open canopy, protected too,... is also separately anchored and provides a large protected "work area" under the "green-house". This has to withstand storm-force winds AND minimal damage in case of complete failure.

Comments? Questions? Tips? Thoughts? Criticisms? Compliments? LoL!!!

[Froggy1936]

I cant tell from the picture but the stick on inside plastic window covers will help a whole lot for temp loss (small air space ) I noticed a 10o warmer inside with them  also they help reduce the window sweating, Make shure you still have some way for fresh air circulation if needed Vent fan will do with opening cover   all windows incl Windshild   A wind breaker around the base also straw bales or cardboard  an Extension light w 100 W bulb will keep anything from freezing if wind is blocked Carefull of flamables coming in contact with bulb and chek often for burn out  Good Luck and stay warm Frank