Couple wheel questions to confirm info

rclifton · April 15, 2013, 01:30 PM

Hi,

Was going to take the wheels off my newly acquired '78 Chieftain and just wanted to confirm a few things. The lug nuts on the driver side are left hand thread correct? So clockwise to remove? I've got the original lug wrench (see photo) I believe but the 2 pieces of the breaker bar no longer fit together, I'm going to pick up a piece of steel pipe I think to make it easier as well as soaking the lug nuts in penetrate.

Any other tips? I'm thinking the lugnuts have not been removed since the last time the tires were replaced which appears to be in August of 1986. D:oH!

Thanks..

rclifton · April 15, 2013, 04:29 PM

I've gone out and really looked at the lug nuts and notice that on the rear studs on both sides there is an R stamped on the ends. The ends of the studs on both sides in the front appear to be painted body color from the factory. I've broken the front passenger side loose but am afraid based on the amount of torque required to loosen it to try any of the others until I know for sure which way to spin it. I could see myself easily shearing a stud off or worse twisting a lug nut and stretching it to the point of being screwed heh.

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 15, 2013, 04:48 PM

All nuts on both sides are the normal righty tighty, lefty loosy.
As I said before, wheel nuts are torqued to 300-350 ft lbs. You will need a 4 ft long breaker bar (100 lbs of force at a distance of 4 ft = 400 ft lbs of torque at nut). When breaking them loose you will hear cracking sounds as the the bond breaks loose. 3/4" drive socket and "breaker bar" are highly recommended. I only weigh 150 lbs so the 4ft bar allows me to get the torque needed.
3 1/2 ton jack stands required
3 ton or greater jack needed. I have a 3 1/2 ton floor jack.
In the front I just use the axle to lift.
On the rear, I use the forward spring attachment block with a short section of 4 x 4 post between jack and spring perch. I am always nervous lifting the rear of this beast because there is no easy way to gain safe access to lift points. Jack stands should be placed under the spring mounts but make sure they clear the brake lines and emergency break cable.

Dave

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 15, 2013, 04:50 PM

BTW - With the tires flat get the weight off of those rims so they are not warped. Very hard to find 17.5" replacements.

Dave

Gary Eddy · April 15, 2013, 05:58 PM

My 69 D18 has Right hand thread on the right side "R" stamped on the end of the stud.
Left hand thread on the left side "L" stamped on the end of the stud.

If yours has "R" stamped on the right studs, I would expect "L" on the left.

Soak them with penetrating oil first.

Froggy1936 · April 15, 2013, 06:13 PM

In case you missed the post ATF mixed 50/50 with laquer thinner works better than any comercial penetrant incl Blaster Frank

rclifton · April 15, 2013, 09:08 PM

Appreciate all the responses guys, I had actually went back out and taken a nut off the right front tire that I had gotten loose and threaded it onto one stud at each of the other wheels to confirm thread direction.

I should have done a search on jacking before starting tho because talk about a PITA!!! My 12ton bottle jack clearly is not the best as it is entirely to short. I was stuck jacking multiple times to get my jackstands high enough to get the jack back under with another 4x8 under it to get it higher. I did manage to change all the tires on the left (which were the flat ones) and will tackle to right tomorrow after going out and getting a jack with more lift.

I did end up getting the scissor jack out of my wifes van and jacking up the rear axle a couple more inches to get the rear inner tire on.

Thanks for the headsup about sitting on the rims as well DaveVA78Chieftain, thankfully I picked up 7 almost new tires on Winnebago rims for $150 off craigslist yesterday. I did have to drive 3.5 hours each way to get them tho lol...

JDxeper · April 15, 2013, 09:37 PM

My 78 is all righties, also have 4 - 17.5 rims laying idle in the barn!

Wantawinnie · April 15, 2013, 10:47 PM

Pretty sure Chrysler did away with left hand lugs around 1970. Depending on the year of the chassis it should be around the 70-71 timeframe.

Elandan2 · April 15, 2013, 11:01 PM

I am not so sure about that. Our 1977 Elandan II on an M 500 has left hand threads on the driver's side. Chrysler passenger cars definitely went to right hand threads about 1970, but the trucks held on for a few more years. Rick

Wantawinnie · April 15, 2013, 11:34 PM

Quote from: Elandan2 on April 15, 2013, 11:01 PM
I am not so sure about that. Our 1977 Elandan II on an M 500 has left hand threads on the driver's side. Chrysler passenger cars definitely went to right hand threads about 1970, but the trucks held on for a few more years. Rick

Did that have the 5 lug budd wheels? The standard 1 ton Dodge trucks were changed much earlier than that. We've had several through the years. I will have to check my '73 5 lugs to see what they are.

Wantawinnie · April 16, 2013, 12:01 AM

Looked through the chassis parts manual downloaded from the site. I can find 2 different part numbers for the front disk brake wheel studs on the RM400 and M500's from 74-77. I assume that will be right and left hand versions as they call for 5 of each.

The 8 lug hubs are a little more confusing but it appears that 16 studs are called for with the same part number. i??

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 16, 2013, 03:13 PM

The R350 designation was used in 74/75. Dodge changed that to M400 and back loaded the designator to 74 (R350 = M400)
The R400 designation was used in 74/75. Dodge changed that to M500 and back loaded the designator to 74 (R400 = M500)

74 (and some 73) and later R/M300 / M400 (R350) all used 17.5" x 5.25" 8 lug rims (6.5" bolt pattern); Flanged nuts.
74 and later M500 (R400) and all M600 used 19.5" x 6" x 5 lug rims (8" bolt pattern); Double lock nuts.

Far as I know, all R/M300 / M400 (R350) used right hand threads.
Rick (Elandan2) indicates his larger M500 chassis has left hand threads on the drivers side. Given that the M600 uses the same basic componets I would expect that to apply there also.

Not a one size fits all situation so it all comes down to which chassis you have.

69 to early 73 M300/M350/M375 are different still.

Because of the designation change in 75, for those with a M400 (R350) chassis, when looking for after market parts many times they are listed under M350 or R350 rather than M400. Brake rotors especially.

Dave

rclifton · April 16, 2013, 05:33 PM

Thanks again everyone, FINALLY got all 6 changed out and the new spare on the back. Breaking those old lugs off with only half the original breaker bar was seriously no joke! Especially one handed lol..

Anyway, all changed and I've decided never to remove the rear tires again, I'll pay someone else to do it!