Dual fuel systems - propane vs gas - any fuel cost savings?

[Ken1]

I was wondering if anyone has calculated the fuel savings when running on propane as compared to gas here in Ontario.

[Rickf1985]

The going price for under 300 lbs of propane right now is 4.05 a gallon. I don't see how you could possibly save anything.

[ibdilbert01]

Its running about $2.50 in our area.   My folks are currently locked in at $2.00 per gallon.   Would be a great option for a secondary fuel option, especially if you run out of gas and can't find a gas station.

[Oz]

Very good observation on that point, Tim!

[Madathlon]

I know here I can buy propane for $1.75 to $2.25 So yes, in NJ is not a good choice, but here in California where gas is running from $4.50 to $3.50 it does make sense

[JDxeper]

Here in Missouri , I think I paid 2.18  a gallon to have my 25 lb tanks filled.  Filled my 500 gal tank in June for $1.89 with a 200 gallon min purchase.

[Ken]

Here in British Columbia, Auto propane is $0.78 per litre. Regular gas is $1.38 per litre. ( 56% savings).  It makes good sense here to run propane if you already have a good working system. To purchase a new propane system, you would need to put on a lot of miles to get any pay-back. If you are dual-fuel and run gas certain percentage of time, you will dilute that payback even more. My experience has been that you will usually not get any better mileage on propane than on gasoline but you can get just as good with the proper system. Aside from the fact that your engine will run much cleaner, if you do not have a significant price differential, propane is no more economical. 

[liquidwrench63]

would a nitrous system work on propane?

[Madathlon]

Now some information on why I want to have duel fuel over a dedicated system.


Flat land driving propane will perform as good at Gas. (Cruising) and yes there is a lower horse power rating when running propane so starts at lights will be slower, and there is a response lag. But friends we are driving RV's not sports cars.


But that loss in HP can be a problem when climbing mountains, this is where duel fuel can be an benefit.


Also in cold climate first starting on gas and letting your engine warm up first is a good way to keep from freezing you out of the RV.


Then there is the availability of fuel. Here on the west coast USA, propane is easy and cheap. And when doing trips I expect to used Propane 95% of the time.


It may not save me money in fuel cost (Gallon for Gallon it should be about the same) I save about $2 buying propane but with a 20% performance loss I should break even.


But what I will save in is engine wear and tear. And in over all maintenance cost in the long run.


And if I can get a used system from a member I will save a but load in over all installation cost.

[Ken]

I agree totally re the wear and tear benefits. I have had some pickup trucks that I put well over 400M miles (480-500M Km) without touching engine and changing plugs only once ( which they probably did not really need). I would change oil every 20M Km and it still appeared clean. I probably could have safely gone longer but felt comfortable with that duration.

[cosmic]

I believe that in Canada there is also a government kick back for people putting new propane systems in. I believe its 2 to 3 grand. My friend has a tow truck business with 23 trucks and has had 8 converted to propane. He is the one who told me about the redbait.  I asked him if he lost any power. His Remark was that he gained power.

[Ken]

There may still be a rebate in Canada for new systems, I am not sure. I think it varies province to province.  I believe that power can be gained with the newer fuel injected systems and higher compression ratios. You can program for propane and /or gasoline independently and not have to compromise to accommodate both with a  common setting. My old 440-3 probably had only about 8:1 compression ratio. The 440-1 that I installed has about 9.75:1. It was rebuilt but previously run on gasoline for about 5000 km in donor vehicle. I left timing as it had been for gasoline for startup just to see. It started and ran ok but  not that much more power than old engine. Advanced timing to where it needed to be and what a difference.  I know from past experience that if I was running dual-fuel, I probably would not be happy with performance of either. I should add that 440-1 has an Edelbrock high rise intake manifold which seems to like propane.

[Rickf1985]

I agree totally re the wear and tear benefits. I have had some pickup trucks that I put well over 400M miles (480-500M Km) without touching engine and changing plugs only once ( which they probably did not really need). I would change oil every 20M Km and it still appeared clean. I probably could have safely gone longer but felt comfortable with that duration.

Your plugs are going to wear exactly the same regardless of the fuel type. I find it hard to believe you ran that many miles on a set of plugs on an old non computerized engine. Those plugs would be gone in 10,000 miles or less. The gap has to be set tighter for propane and it is much less forgiving than gasoline, once the plugs wear a little you start to get misfires. That can be in as little as 1500 miles.

[Ken]

I do not know what to say other than I have never had to change plugs in any vehicle, gas or propane ,in 10,000 miles in my 50 plus years of driving. Just lucky, I guess.

[Missy-Mae]

Hi I run an A class in the UK and pay £1.35per liter for gasoline I used to have a Grand Cherokee on propane and it would cost me 0.71p a liter so was quite a saving I did about 150k miles on it with no problems
Cheers Les

[dezertgurl]

My small family business runs 2 Ford service trucks, identical except one's propane-only and the other runs on gasoline. The propane engine has logged over 200,000 miles with no major issues - not so for the gas engine! But the propane-powered truck gets lower MPG and it's a real annoyance to have 3 propane tanks taking up so much space in the service bed. (It takes all 3 to equal the range of the other truck on 2 gas tanks).
So there are tradeoffs to consider in addition to cost.

[Froggy1936]

Am i missing something here ? Road Taxes ? Built in on gasoline , Are there any when using propane as a fuel ? Like using heating oil as a fuel is a no no due to no road tax on heating oil (both are diesel fuel) To prevent this heating oil is dyed Dont get caught with it in your diesel veh ! Just wondering i?? Frank

[Madathlon]

In the US, there is no road tax on propane and you are allowed, (Sometimes even encouraged) to use it to power your car/Truck/Rv and even boats. Now I do not know about other countries.

[dezertgurl]

. . . using heating oil as a fuel is a no no due to no road tax on heating oil (both are diesel fuel) To prevent this heating oil is dyed Dont get caught with it in your diesel veh ! . . .

You ain't kiddin! A farmer I know used red fuel in a truck when he ran out of regular diesel and got caught, the fine he paid shoulda guaranteed no budget shortfall for the state of Idaho that year!    

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Sounds like a good reason to convert to diesel though...in the event of the zombie apocalypse, we could fill our rigs from abandoned heating oil tanks...lol!

Kev