Onan 4.0 bge 1r/26101a. Won't start

Weblamer · March 02, 2014, 01:06 PM

Hello all. I have a 1985 minnie winnie with a 4.0 bge 1r/26101a. Camper is old, but the generator only has 100 hours on it, so I was hoping to bring it back to life.

Neither the button in the coach or the button on the generator starts it. No crank, no 'click' nothing. Fuses all appear to be OK.

I opened up the control panel on the generator (where the button is) and apparently a mud dauber had built a big clay nest in there sometime in the past. I had to scrape the nest out as much as i could.

Using my meter I see it is getting power from the coach batteries at the big wire the arrow is pointing to in the pic below. When I press the starter button, I am not seeing any drop in the voltage at all.

I am a little lost as to where to proceed from here. I know my way around a meter and a toolbox, but I have never played with a generator before. I would like to jump some wires just to see if it cranks, but I don't know where to start.

Also, if I remove the entire generator to work on it, will the normal house electrics (12v, shore power) be unaffected? it would probably be best to remove it to work on it, but I do not want to cripple the camper in the meantime.

http://i.imgur.com/PeKtpex.jpg

Neil Carrick · March 02, 2014, 01:36 PM

How long has it been not running? I got mine going last year after sitting a long period and the carb needed a real good cleaning as it was all gummed up. You could smell the old gas in it, like turpentine. I would check all of the cables leading to it from the battery, and clean all the connections including all of the grounds. I ended up replacing all of the gas lines and put a new fuel pump on it and it ran fine. It didn't make any power at first though and had to excite the fields to get a residual charge back in to them.

Weblamer · March 02, 2014, 01:47 PM

it was sitting for years.

Actually, after fiddling with it I ended up starting the engine and hitting the MOM button then hit the crank, and it started cranking over. I am not sure why this did it, as after I turned the mom stitch off, it kept cranking. Guess it just needed a big jolt the first time around?

Now my problem looks like no fuel is coming through the fuel pump. Yeah, I am definently going to have to replace the gas line hoses.

How much gas should be coming through the feed? Im just getting a dribble.

DaveVA78Chieftain · March 02, 2014, 02:25 PM

You have 4.0BGE Spec A generator. Best place to start is to download a free copy of the BGE Spec A from the Members area of our site. Otherwise you are running blind.

If it does not crank from either switch then, it could be:
F1 fuse
Bad ground connection at generator start switch
One of the relays (K4, K1, or K3)
Starter

When you hit start you should be able to hear relay K4 on the circuit board energize which applies power to the K1 stater solenoid.

Dave

Neil Carrick · March 02, 2014, 02:31 PM

it is a low pressure pump, but should still get a decent flow. Mine wouldn't turn over after I tried it by crossing the solenoid cause it was shot, and it turns out there are two fuses ( mines a Kohler) and one fuse will allow it to turn over and the other one is for the generator to produce electricity I think it was. Very detailed manuals in the members section here. In the end I put a new solenoid, new fuel lines, cleaned the fuel lines, cleaned the points, removed and cleaned the carb and did all of the battery cable connections front to back. I actually got it running first on a separate battery to eliminate all of the connections while troubleshooting it. Once I got it running and actually got it to produce electricity, I ran it all afternoon using a drill and skil saw for some fence work and the longer it ran, the better it got. Check the fuses and look for a manual in the members section.
Best of luck

Weblamer · March 02, 2014, 02:36 PM

How do i become a member here to get to the articles?

Weblamer · March 02, 2014, 03:19 PM

Man the fuel line looked AWFUL. Grabbed it and squeezed it and it started to crumble in my hand. Line is probably clogged with shoot.

Ace is closed, so ill pick up a new line this week. I'll update till I get it running because I hate searching and finding dead end threads.

M & J · March 02, 2014, 03:32 PM

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=store;cat=59

Thats how you become a member and no dead end threads here.

Highly recommend using the search feature.

Neil Carrick · March 02, 2014, 04:04 PM

There is a wealth of information, comradery and manuals to be found within these confines. Manuals for just about anything you need and someone here who has seen it all before and can provide some guidance. Tons of postings dealing with issues that you WILL D:oH! encounter.
Welcome to the CWVRV !!!

DaveVA78Chieftain · March 02, 2014, 04:14 PM

QuoteMan the fuel line looked AWFUL. Grabbed it and squeezed it and it started to crumble in my hand. Line is probably clogged with shoot.

Ace is closed, so ill pick up a new line this week. I'll update till I get it running because I hate searching and finding dead end threads.

Was that the steel or rubber line (or both)? Both are available from a a regular auto supply house.
Is there a filter in the line?
If rubber line at generator is crumbling, then the one at the gas tank is most likely doing the same. At the gas tank you also have the ones for the 454.

We defiently appreciate you posting the complete project.

The $ for membership is used directly for web site support. We do not fill the page with annoying clickable ads so we charge a small membership fee to allow access to all the information.

Dave

Weblamer · March 02, 2014, 07:09 PM

Thanks, I chucked in some paypal for a membership.

The line running under the coach was steel, and when it got towards the generator a rubber hose hooked on to it. On the rubber hose was a valve, however there did not seem to be fuel filter for the generator.

I'll have to check the gas line for the tank. I took it in and got the fuel filter replaced recent. You think if it was crumbling they would have mentioned something.

DaveVA78Chieftain · March 02, 2014, 07:38 PM

The fuel pickup is on top of the tank. They use a rubber hose to connect the pickup to the main lines. Unfortunantly the area on top of the fuel tank is usually not visible. One typically does not know the hoses have degraded until they start having fuel delivery problems. The ethanol they put into today's gas eats the old style hoses used in our old rigs. Newer hose is ethanol resistant.

Dave

Oz · March 03, 2014, 03:39 PM

Quote from: Weblamer on March 02, 2014, 03:19 PM
... because I hate searching and finding dead end threads.

"I LIKE to search and find dead end threads... " Said no one.. ever - :)rotflmao

Fact is, look at any forum about anything out there. The vast majority of topics are "dead end". They may have suggestions for fixes, but the person who posted the question never tells what it was that worked. I guess as long as people answer their questions and they get it fixed, they must be too lazy or self-concerned to return the effort others made for them by telling everyone what the answer was.

And, at least here... you have topic titles that... get this... actually tell you what the problem is! Not just "help" or... "Manifold" or "carb problem". Anyone ever get frustrated with that one?

Also, I go to great lengths to use message icons to help readers along their way. All the question mark icons, the Hmmmm icons, the "light bulb" icons (for suggested answers) and most of all.. the "topic solved" green, checkmark. How do you think they all got there? I put them there. Darned near every one of them so readers get the most visual cues as to what's in a topic.

Know what I really hate? When the same questions get asked over and over and over again, and the same people end up answering them over and over and over again, so much so that they stop answering because they know the answers are already there but the people asking the questions find it somehow to be too difficult to do a message search and scan down what's there. Gosh, what incredible effort to expect of anyone. It's like having to push your RV a mile or so. That's what I really hate.

So, I have been going through the topics, since late November, 2008. And as I do, I leave questions which haven't been solved so that at least suggested answers are there. And, it doesn't matter if the post was from 2003. The answer would still be the same now as it was then. So, if someone new has that question, they can add to the existing one and draw in new info and possibly a solution.

If there's nothing of any value at all... I delete the whole topic.

Sorta makes sense to me, anyway.

Thus endeth MY rant!

M & J · March 03, 2014, 04:39 PM

Groovy.

Stripe · March 03, 2014, 05:16 PM

Hey!

Weblamer · March 04, 2014, 06:46 PM

Ongoing adventures...

Went out and bought some new hose line during my lunch break today.

Like i said, the hose going to the fuel pump looked pretty rotted. Here it is.

I pulled the old line off expecting a stream of fuel to come out...but there was nothing.

Hoping the fuel line itself was not clogged, I hooked up a little hand pump. After a minute fuel started coming out, so thankfully that was not blocked.

I then tried cranking the generator...but the fuel pump did not seem to be putting out any fuel. As you can see in this video, I cranked it for a while, but nothing came out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ9Dr-QVS_A&feature=share&list=UUmNtd5BigSJuskPJ5QM3LSQ

What do you think? Bad fuel pump? Remember, this generator had not been used in almost a decade. I do not know if old gas gets lacquered up in a fuel pump or what, or if there is any way to clean it. Can I take it off and soak it in seafoam or something?

Stripe · March 04, 2014, 08:20 PM

Like, eww, like totally grodie to the max,,

Are you putting fuel line in a portable tank or to the main tank?

DaveVA78Chieftain · March 04, 2014, 08:25 PM

First question has to be is 12VDC getting to the pump while cranking?

In the video, that appears to be the original Onan pump which does have a filter inside. Disassembly and cleaning information is contained in the Maintenance manual (900-0530) available for free in the Manuals and Diagrams section of the members area.

Dave

Stripe · March 04, 2014, 08:53 PM

And be careful not to pull the wrong spring pin when looking at the filter. Do that and the pump comes undone..

Fortunately if'n you do do that by accident, I know EXACTLY how to put the parts back in..

(don't ask me why)

Weblamer · March 04, 2014, 10:48 PM

Hey, maan, Don't Grody my Generator!

I'll check the voltage when I get more light. Honestly, I am ready for daylight savings. I have like 1 hour of light when I get home from work.

So that cylinder pump has a fuel filter IN it? (groans)

Honestly I think it might be shot. Probably has a good coating of veneer inside of it. Looking at another thread for 12vold pumps now.

Stripe · March 05, 2014, 01:01 AM

Have a look at this. I reverse engineered a new pump to figure out how to put my old one back together.

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,7472.msg33641.html#msg33641

Just in case..

Weblamer · March 05, 2014, 08:35 AM

That is great, thanks. I'll try taking mine apart. Can't hurt and it would be nice if i can save a few bucks.

moonlitcoyote · March 06, 2014, 07:42 PM

It looks like you have the same fuel pump I have on mine and I had the same problem when I bought my rig, I thought the pump was bad because I didnt hear it trying to work or anything when I tried to start it. But one day I was looking really close at the fuel pump and realized "this thing MUST come apart" So I used a big pipe wrench and twisted the top off of it. And low and behold there was a filter in it. So I washed it out and put it back together and yehaw! it started working.

DaveVA78Chieftain · March 06, 2014, 09:28 PM

The service manual also has a parts diagram of the fuel pump.

Dave

Weblamer · March 08, 2014, 05:55 PM

Picture time.

Yanked the carb and the fuel pump out.

Check out that carb jet. Total gunked.

got it nice and cleaned.

The fuel pump did indeed have a simple twist cap on the bottom of it. I took it off and in the center was a little ball, when I pressed it i felt it 'pop' out of some dried gas. I let it soak in seafoam for a while and then put it back in.

Once back on the engine the fuel pump fired up right away. So there is one part I won't have to buy.

Alas....cranked the engine some, no dice. Decided to check for a spark...no spark!

(sigh)

So now I am reading up on how to get a spark. However, to get to the points and rotor I am going to have to drop the generator....and that is going to be a real pain to do myself. However, i want to get this thing fixed before the summer heat comes and while working outside is still nice.