Removing inner ceiling panels on a 89 chieftain?

[Rickf1985]

URGENT!!!! I need to get above the ceiling panels and behind the curved plastic side section at the top of the wall. I have a bad leak due to a very poor installation of an awning bracket and I need to fabricate a outer and inner plate to cover the area and take the load of the awning bracket. Water is just pouring in right now.

I am talking about the interior padded ceiling, the headliner. I don't know if that is the same back through the years or not. Unfortunately I did not get any pictures of the damage doneat the awning area but I will since it is still leaking. What I am afraid of with the ceiling panels is that they are glued up, there is a big span between supports. That would mean tearing stuff to get them down and I don't want to do that.

[davecaprita]

Rick, Need any pics of the interior you can muster?  I've got an 87 and I've taken the failing fabric headliner down in several sections (4'x8') interior panels.  Its lauan plywood, blue insulation and roof as best I can tell at this point.  I think the panels themselves are glued together sandwich style and held up by the trusses spanning the coach and at sides (unknown how right now) with the plastic bead cover hiding the anchors.  I'll look closer this afternoon.       

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

I am sure he (and others in the future) would appreciate that Dave.  Always helps to have a visual of something your are about to dive into.  I have just never had the opportunity to see how these later models were put together.

Thanks,
Dave

[Stripe]

If you look at the ceiling, are there narrower strips going side to side?  I know on my HR those are what are used to cover seams and the screws that are in the seams.  I also know that in order to replace my ceiling panels, the cabinets are in the way.

Here is the part number for the Winnebago service manual that might apply, 701674-02-000, it's a few years short of your model though.  But I am assured that if you contact Winnebago Industries they might have one for your year model that you can order.  One of the topics covered in this one is ceiling repair.

[Rickf1985]

Rick, Need any pics of the interior you can muster?  I've got an 87 and I've taken the failing fabric headliner down in several sections (4'x8') interior panels.  Its lauan plywood, blue insulation and roof as best I can tell at this point.  I think the panels themselves are glued together sandwich style and held up by the trusses spanning the coach and at sides (unknown how right now) with the plastic bead cover hiding the anchors.  I'll look closer this afternoon.     

That is exactly what I am looking for and Stripe, That sounds like what I have. Dave V, Do we have those manuals on here? I will look while I wait for a reply. I got up there today after work and caulked anything that even thought about looking like a leak. I just can't figure it out, the water is just pouring in and yet there is nothing up there that even resembles a leak. I have the inner molding off of every vent and the AC unit si if it were leaking through any of them I would see it. It is pouring in over the passengers side window up front. Too high to be coming in a window.

[Oz]

Mmm... sorry, bro.  Don't have the coach manual for your year.  These seem quite hard to come by.

[Rickf1985]

I have been chasing and chasing this leak to no avail. I put the wife inside tonight and I got out the hose, I figured I had it beat this time. I caulked anything that looked like a lesk, looked like it may have leaked in the last year and even caulked everything that couldn't leak fot GP. IT LEAKED!!!!! Comes in real fast at the passenger window so I figure it has to be a bad leak. I waited until it let up inside and then hosed down the awning rail which I thought to be the problem, nothing. Hosed down the antenna since it looks like it has not seen service for 20 years. Nothing. AC unit, nothing. The skylight that I surrounded with Eternabond and filled the frame with self leveling caulk................. Screams of water coming in! This is 20 feet back fro the front seats!! There is no way this should be leaking but it is. And to run all the way up there? I would LOVE to see one of these apart. The only thing left to do is to rip it out and replace it.

[Rickf1985]

Found my leak! It is the roof to side seam. Verified by the tried and true hose and wet method. I have been all over that seam and checked all the areas that looked questionable and they all looked good and tight inside the little loose edge you always get with silicone. Well, I guess some were not as they looked.
I will ask here but if you think I should open a new thread on the subject just let me know Mark. The joint is caulked with silicone, it was a clean job. It is nice and smooth and not excessive or sloppy. I generally avoid silicone like the plague! My dilemma here is this, I have 62 feet of caulking to address, should I attempt to scrape, peel, wipe, repeat over and over or should I lust go over it again with silicone? That brings up question #2, does silicone adhere to silicone? Nothing else does. I would go down the length of it with a razor top and side and cut out the majority of it and then put down new but I want to be sure it will adhere. I do NOT want to do this twice!!!! Does anyone know of a good battery or air powered caulk gun? One that they themselves have used and liked? I have arthritis in my hands ( and everywhere else) and there is NO way I would be able to do that much with a manual gun.

Rick

[Oz]

You can save yourself the the caulking dilema altogether by using the aluminum backed eternabond tape over the roof to edge seam.  See my photo album, "one day roof re-seal".  I have commentary on the photos:  http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=album;id=7

You can also use the two sided tape if you want to remove the side edge and lay it between that and the roof and sidewall.
http://www.eternabond.com/DoubleStick-p/cr-ds.htm

My problem was similar to yours.  I found there were actually 3 kinds of caulk used.  One kind was very good, sealed well, and was very hard to get off.  The second sealed well and was much easier to get off.  The third looked good, but when I pulled on it, it had no stick at all.

For more info on sealants refer to this topic:
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,2431.0.html

If you have additional questions about caulking/sealants, feel free to post them on that topic.  You won't need to post a whole new one. 



Even with the leak issue solved, we're still searching info on the original question:  How to remove interior ceiling panels.

[Rickf1985]

Well, I figured I would drag this thread back to the top since I STILL have not been able to conquer this leaking issue. I have sealed every square inch of the top of this RV, several times. I am going to attempt to put Eternabond on the seam the length of the roof but I am not sure how well it is going to work due to the difference in heights, Eternabond does not conform very well and I really do not want an open space under there. At this point I do not see anywhere possible that it could be leaking in that seam, it is caulked with urethane caulk and then coated with roof coating. The antenna was completely sealed, all gears and holes, with urethane caulk. (it did not work anyway). The only other thing is the A/C gasket of which I have a new one but if it were that I think I would be seeing it AT the AC and not on the passenger side at the drivers seat above the window. The only other possibility that is high enough is the awning rail and that is sealed tight with butyl tape. If it were leaking it would be very small. This is large amounts of water, quickly. Been chasing this for two years now, I want to sell this thing but it is hard to sell with it leaking!

[brians1969]

Seal up your fridge vents with cardboard, close all the windows and pressurize the rv with a leaf blower thru a window or roof vent.  Make up a soapy solution and put it in a garden sprayer and spray away!

[Rickf1985]

I thought about that but first off I don't have a leaf blower but the biggest problem is that my crank out windows do not seal tight enough and the gaskets are no longer available. Have not been able to find a replacement. I do not think I would be able to build up enough pressure. I do have three shop vacs so I may just give it a try, maybe tape the windows.

[brians1969]

I read about it on one of the other rv boards.  Like you, I also have a leak that for the life of me, I can't find, so I'm going to have to try it sometime. Does the garden hose trick help to isolate the area?

[Rickf1985]

I have seen it done, You have to plug everything, including all of the drains or the air will blow out through the plumbing vent.

[legomybago]

Well, I figured I would drag this thread back to the top since I STILL have not been able to conquer this leaking issue. I have sealed every square inch of the top of this RV, several times. I am going to attempt to put Eternabond on the seam the length of the roof but I am not sure how well it is going to work due to the difference in heights, Eternabond does not conform very well and I really do not want an open space under there. At this point I do not see anywhere possible that it could be leaking in that seam, it is caulked with urethane caulk and then coated with roof coating. The antenna was completely sealed, all gears and holes, with urethane caulk. (it did not work anyway). The only other thing is the A/C gasket of which I have a new one but if it were that I think I would be seeing it AT the AC and not on the passenger side at the drivers seat above the window. The only other possibility that is high enough is the awning rail and that is sealed tight with butyl tape. If it were leaking it would be very small. This is large amounts of water, quickly. Been chasing this for two years now, I want to sell this thing but it is hard to sell with it leaking!

I would investigate the AC seal. Water can and will easily wick its way along the underside of the roof and travel to were it can puddle, then when the dam releases, you get a lot of water. I've been dealing with this type of leak in my Land Rover...drives me nuts. Have you checked the AC mounting bolts yet just to see if it's still even tight to the roof? If not tight, that's a start. I've also had the front upper cab amber lights create this issue. Even if the lenses are micro cracked from age they will build up condensation inside them and create a leak building up a puddle somewhere inside...My 2c

[Rickf1985]

I was Just up there looking and it appears to be the side seam where the side and top meet again. On the eighties models the side and top are rolled into a seam and were caulked. There is no molding over anything. Just a groove with caulk. Well, some genius in the past caulked it with silicone and from the point forward it has leaked hence why it has so much delamination on the sides. I pulled it all out and scrubbed the hell out of it last summer and to no avail, there was apparently still silicone residue in there and the urethane caulk is not adhering. I found a couple small cracks in the roof coating which is over the caulked seam and poked at it and water came out. A little picking and the caulk seam just pulls out like a zipper! No adhesion at all, AGAIN. I am going to Home Depot to get some 3M silicone remover and will try that to get the damn stuff off and then caulk it again and Eternabond over that when it sets up. I would like to meet the maker of silicone caulk and suggest a place to calk with it!

[legomybago]

If you can Rick, wait until a warm day (like 70's) and install the Eternabond tape warm. It adheres incredibly and forms well.

[Rickf1985]

That is not going to happen, no more 70's in the forecast for a couple weeks now. And LOTS of rain. You are supposed to be able to apply it down to and below freezing. I have used it in pretty cold weather and it stuck quite well. My main concern is to get the crap out of the seam and get it dried out before doing that. Putting a 40 foot tarp on and off by yourself in the wind is NO fun at all!!! Got some GOO-Gone silicone remover, will try that tomorrow if it looks like the rain is going to hold off after I get it aligned. Or hopefully aligned.

[TerryH]

"Got some GOO-Gone silicone remover, will try that tomorrow"

Something I have found that works well for cleaning silicone residue is the old school, liquid, Zippo type, Ronson Lighter Fluid.
It is basically Naptha, but when used with care, sparingly and in small areas at each time, scrubbed after with a white 3M ScotchBrite and then rinsed well seems to work. Followed up with a quality Urethane caulk, used as it is meant, has worked for me in various applications.
The mistake that many seem to make is thinking that 'If I use a huge bead/amount of caulking and spread it out, it will be more effective'.
Not.
Most important is, of course, substrate prep.
Followed by, and often not done, tooling. Tooling caulking forces it into the void you wish to fill and also aids in eliminating air pockets - a huge bane to caulking.
Most caulk is meant to fill a minimal void. Not spread out with a putty Knife. Following up with or something equal to Eterna Bond tape adds to what you wish to achieve. Provided you have allowed your quality caulking to cure. This will not, under any circumstance, occur should you be applying a huge bead.
I have spent a lot of years caulking -showers/bathtubs, windshields, residential windows, 30+ story buildings etc. Not a lot with RVs, but the procedure is very similar regardless of what and where you are caulking.
Again, prep, product, application, tooling and curing are all essential if you want to seal correctly.
Another one of my lengthy posts.

[Rickf1985]

Lengthy posts are good when they are informative as this one is. Always good to hear from someone who has done it for a living. I, for one, hate caulking. I am not good at it and tooling is a sloppy procedure that I prefer to avoid. I  do it because I have to, doesn't mean I have to like it. N:( My brother in law was a master carpenter and he could lay a bead of caulk that never needed tooling, perfect every time. He could run a whole tube in a non stop seam and you would never see where he ratcheted the gun. Amazing.

[beaverman]

"Got some GOO-Gone silicone remover, will try that tomorrow"

Something I have found that works well for cleaning silicone residue is the old school, liquid, Zippo type, Ronson Lighter Fluid.
It is basically Naptha, but when used with care, sparingly and in small areas at each time, scrubbed after with a white 3M ScotchBrite and then rinsed well seems to work. Followed up with a quality Urethane caulk, used as it is meant, has worked for me in various applications.
The mistake that many seem to make is thinking that 'If I use a huge bead/amount of caulking and spread it out, it will be more effective'.
Not.
Most important is, of course, substrate prep.
Followed by, and often not done, tooling. Tooling caulking forces it into the void you wish to fill and also aids in eliminating air pockets - a huge bane to caulking.
Most caulk is meant to fill a minimal void. Not spread out with a putty Knife. Following up with or something equal to Eterna Bond tape adds to what you wish to achieve. Provided you have allowed your quality caulking to cure. This will not, under any circumstance, occur should you be applying a huge bead.
I have spent a lot of years caulking -showers/bathtubs, windshields, residential windows, 30+ story buildings etc. Not a lot with RVs, but the procedure is very similar regardless of what and where you are caulking.
Again, prep, product, application, tooling and curing are all essential if you want to seal correctly.
Another one of my lengthy posts.

Rick, Ive used this procedure on several coach's over the years and follow the prep with 1 more step, right before I re caulk I use denatured alcohol as a final wipe down, removes any residue left by any of the other chemicals and flash dries leaving an absolutely sterile surface to work with, as always your mileage may vary, works for me!

[TerryH]

The prime reason for tooling is to force the caulk into the void you want to seal. Helps to force out potential air bubbles. I can also run a bead that does not require tooling for aesthetic purpose, but I still tool for effective sealing purpose.
Many don't understand the necessity of tooling, and the 'general' product and 'general' advise you buy and receive from Home Depot, etc., are just that. General.

[Rickf1985]

Terry, Any way you can PM me your number? I have a problem and I would like your advice since it seems like you know your stuff with this. Rain is coming and I am all opened up.