Getting our 1989 Winnebago Warrior 22EC ready for the road...

[Rickf1985]

That would make sense, mine are under the hood in front right there but he does not have the full width hood I have so to put it on the lower side would be about the same wire run. I would bet the breakers are the same.

[Rickf1985]

Got an e-mail from Bill and his panel is where we are talking but it totally different, no breakers and the relays are just hanging in the wiring. Looks like it is going to come down to tracing out the power wire and making sure there is or isn't power at the fridge and take it from there. You will probably have to pull the front panel off to get to the incoming wire for testing unless it comes in the back.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Rick,
I guess I missed your post while I was composing and posting mine. My configutation is a bit different. I have a metal cover over the power converter etc. inside (dims approx 18" x 12"). Underneath are 5 fuses and 3 cb. All look good but like I said, no DVM right now. I wonder if there is a fridge fuse located elsewhere?

This underneath the wardrobe aft of the dinnet?

What model Fridge? Then find the DVM.

89 and 90 models look identical so 1990 wiring diagrams should be real close http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/1990/90_f22ec_wiring.htm
Unfortunatly the 12 volt diagram was not included.  Only the house installation drawing (cable runs)

Top level page to RV Refrigerator Information and Troubleshooting

[engineer bill]

(for a 1990 Warrior EC) it shows a circuit breaker panel and a fuse panel all in one big box.  The CB panel has the 20 amp CB for the fridge and three other CBs, the fuse panel may be for the chassis. ---From the drawing it appears to be above the floor and about 12 inches aft of the front axle center line.  I'm thinking it would be up under the dash.

Found the CB Panel from your discription just where you said. Very helpful, thanks. Funny, I've been under there a lot but never noticed the DZUS (1/4 Turn) fasteners. I may need new glasses. 

[engineer bill]

Oh, and the furnace: fan starts then after a bit I hear the igniter (three times) but no whoosh. Sadly, the same symptoms as last year before $$$$ repair.

Very Good News. After we got up and out,I left the furnace control on for a while and when I stuck my head in the RV a half hour later it was blowing hot... Air bubbles in the LPG line?


Oh and BTW:
Even when it's working right, when I first turn it on it blows cold air for a few minutes and my wife complains. She doesn't care why it blows cold (which I've explained), she just really doesn't like it.  D:oH!

[engineer bill]

Got an e-mail from Bill and his panel is where we are talking but it totally different, no breakers and the relays are just hanging in the wiring. Looks like it is going to come down to tracing out the power wire and making sure there is or isn't power at the fridge and take it from there. You will probably have to pull the front panel off to get to the incoming wire for testing unless it comes in the back.

Found the breakers but they all are passing current.

[engineer bill]

Pulled the outside access panel off the fridge. The ground cable from the harness is not connected to ground. That would do it. Too hot now but later I'll connect a jumper to confirm that diagnosis.


Thanks everyone.

[engineer bill]

We just got back from a trip up over the mountains to Santa Cruz Redwoods RV Park in Felton CA. A bit less than 100 miles ending with climbing about 1900 ft on California 17.

We took it very easy on the interstate, mostly on the level, and then the very steep 7 miles up the mountain and over the 1900 ft summit. I think that's an average 5% grade. It pulled very strong up the mountain but I took it easy, as I said. At the top we filled up and recorded 6.95 mpg for the entire trip which seemed great to me. Four days later we drove down the mountain using a lot of engine braking. I tried to go down at the same speed I went up. As the road leveled and straightened out, I started to accelerate and I felt and heard a dozen backfires. I reduced my throttle and started looking for a wide shoulder but as I slowed the backfires stopped. I found that taking it really, really easy and keeping vacuum gauge in the green, I was able to limp the 80 miles home with only a couple more backfires.

My mechanic says I probably burned a valve and need a valve job. A buddy says: "Marvel Mystery Oil" might fix it. Myself, I just feel sick.

[Rickf1985]

Before you get yourself all worked up, didn't you just put another exhaust manifold on there? I know you did, I have your old one. You may have nothing more than an exhaust leak at the manifold or donut and are burning off excess gas. I seriously doubt you burned a valve. And as much as I like Marvel I don't think it is the answer here. Backfires are the result of excess gas lighting off in the exhaust system, very common with an exhaust leak. Come on Bill, You are old enough to remember using dads car and going like hell and turning the key off in gear and then turning it back on a few seconds later. Always good for a bang and sometime good for a new muffler. Ask Tina. :)rotflmao :)rotflmao W% W%

[Rickf1985]

And whenever I turn my gas off at the tank for any period of time and then turn it back on the first thing I need to do is try to get a burner going on the stove. This gets gas back in the line. Then everything works after that. My fridge will not light till I bleed out the line at the stove.

[engineer bill]

Not me. I didn't put on a new exhaust manifold.


I'm glad you don't think it's valves. I keep forgetting everything I used to know about old, pre-electronic injection engines. As far as blown out mufflers, there was one on Winne when I first bought her 18 months ago.


Finally, just what is Marvel Mystery Oil really good for?

[Rickf1985]

Marvel Mystery Oil is a great top cylinder lube. It works very well at freeing up stuck and noisy lifters and stuck piston rings. I used to test additives for a very well off collector. He wanted to know what worked and what didn't and since he was always buying a selling old cars we got to test a LOT of products. I have to say that the only one that showed any plausible results consistently was the Marvel.

In your case I would take the dog box off and rev the engine a couple times, Not high, just hit the gas a few times and listen for a "Tick" or a "tap". That is what a small leak will sound like.
I am mixing you up with Oldrockandroller, it is his old manifold I have.

[M & J]

Yeah, I sent you the manifold for your birthday old man. 

[engineer bill]

Pulled the outside access panel off the fridge. The ground cable from the harness is not connected to ground. That would do it. Too hot now but later I'll connect a jumper to confirm that diagnosis.

I jumped the ground terminal to chassis ground. Fridge works fine now.


I'm going to guess the rough trip down I680 rattled something loose. The roads here in California are getting worse and worse.


I'll spend a little time looking for the break or missing attachment but probably, I'll end up just running a new ground wire. If I recall, the fridge draws more than 25A 12V DC so it'll have to be short and fat.

[Bnova]

Very Good News. After we got up and out,I left the furnace control on for a while and when I stuck my head in the RV a half hour later it was blowing hot... Air bubbles in the LPG line?


Oh and BTW:
Even when it's working right, when I first turn it on it blows cold air for a few minutes and my wife complains. She doesn't care why it blows cold (which I've explained), she just really doesn't like it.  D:oH!

LOL, not sure what to do about that

[engineer bill]

Hi Bill, If you lose 12V to the fridge control panel The 110V will not work nor will propane ! I Carry a Med size cooler That I keep my beer in < I change 3 freezer packs ea day to keep beer cold , It is also a excellent place to put food in case of a fridge failure (beer goes in a bag)  It will add an extra day to get fridge working again  ! Frank

Great advice as always Frank.

Bought a big cooler and everything but the frozen fruit bars were fine. Once home after chasing fuses and circuit breakers I discovered that the large ground wire was broken. So, in future will try to remind myself what I already knew but forgot: start with the easiest, simplest trouble-shooting items first.
Bill

[engineer bill]

Backfires are the result of excess gas lighting off in the exhaust system, very common with an exhaust leak.

Yep, so my new RH  muffler is blown up. Just a little noisier. 


How bad does an exhaust leak have to get before repairs (other than mufflers) are required? Can it cause valve damage? I'm guessing that replacing exhaust manifold gaskets on a Winne is not easy? Are replacement exhaust manifolds available at a reasonable price? I think I read about some guy putting CA Smog approved headers on a Winnebago.

[Froggy1936]

Problem manifold leaks and header leaks can usually be solved using 1 or 2 laminated aluminum gaskets (available at speed shops and advance auto ) This will take care of warped and poorly made headers , Periodic tightening may be required Frank

[Rickf1985]

What Frank said and as far as damage you are not going to damage a valve due to any leak you may get because there is enough manifold there to heat up the air before it gets to the valves. This would only pertain to running it hard without any exhaust at all, just the open ports on the head. If you are getting a lot of backfires you may be running rich at idle though and that is causing the mixture to light off in the pipe.

[engineer bill]

Thanks Frank and Rick. I don't do any serious mechanical work anymore if I can help it so I'll take this to my mechanic. I wonder about the running rich, I did just a couple of months ago pass the California Smog Test. Maybe a look at the carb is in order.


I just had a couple of 300-400 mile trips back to back. My mileage has improved quite a bit: 6.96, 6.97, 6.97, 7.75 mpg (the last being very, very careful to keep the speed down and not much up and down.)

[engineer bill]

So, the exhaust donuts were shot and I had them replaced. After that, very slight leaking at manifold gasket. The mufflers were fine. Found a big leak in the rubber oil cooler line-that coulda been bad. Slight rear oil pan leak and possible rear main but not too bad. Slight oil drain plug leak-recommended I wait until next oil change in 1500 miles. Had him remove a LF doghouse bolt broken flush with the floor. Bonus item, without asking he found the fault in the cab ac condensate line that was causing it to pee on the passenger floor. No charge. He could have easily talked me into the manifold gaskets but instead said "I think It'll be ok now, take it out and then let me know what you think." $338.00 total.


Vacuum gauge readings: at idle 18-19, 50 mph 13-14 inches.

[kattkisson]

my experience with Vac. readings with TBI  if it makes any difference   idle  20+
Driving along it will be a function or what the engine is being asked to do.  I try to work the pedal to keep it above 10 if possible.. Below this the engine is doing what it wants to do which is to burn fuel.  You can construct a topo map using a vac. gauge all other things being equal.

[Rickf1985]

KEEP THAT MECHANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[engineer bill]

Yes, I'll definately be going back to my mechanic Danny at ALL FLOW in Martinez CA. The only reason I mentioned the $ figure and the things he told me I didn't need yet was because I realize how easily this could have cost $$$ instead of $. He's been pretty good to me.


My vacuum numbers seem a little low to me, seems like I might still have a leak?

[Rickf1985]

I would not be worried about those numbers, That could be just a touch of timing off, a carb adjustment or even a lower idle. whatever it would be very minor.