Getting our 1989 Winnebago Warrior 22EC ready for the road...

[Rickf1985]

Bill, The adapter harness is probably to cover different years of vehicles. Over the years they most likely changed the type of plug.

[engineer bill]

Talked to Michael Fox at CruiseControl.com (800-343-1382) and got some good information. My 1989 Winnebago Warrior 22EC is compatible with the 250-3020 Combo Turn Signal/Cruise Control lever. It should plug right in to the harness and attach to the turn signal switch inside the column with a single screw (Need to pull the steering wheel.) I do not need the MR-20 adapter. The lever includes the cruise switches but not the wipers and high beam functions.

[engineer bill]

After spending "untold amounts of blood and treasure" fixing every little thing on my Winnebago P-37 chassis, it is still really thrown around by the wind. I did find that pulling my Suzuki Samurai toad calms things down a bit but it is still quite a handful. (This statement coming from a guy who was a Peterbilt Engineer and test driver for 15 years.)


I think the last thing left to do is to install a "Trac Bar"  aka Panhard Rod. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhard_rod] The various manufacturers claim they solve many handling problems including the pull-push of 18-wheelers passing and the sudden-lane-change phenomenon from wind gusts.  :)rotflmao


This is going to cost about $1000- installed. Is it worth it? I welcome input here, especially from anyone who has first hand experience with these things.

[kattkisson]

Bill-
I would be interested in what you have done already for handling.  Since I know we have similar rigs I will make some comments on things you may want to do before installing the pan hard bar.


I have a'93  22 warrior.  It was blown all over.  First I discovered that the stationary pivots in the tie rods were loose.  I did not replace them as they are designed to be tightened. These are factory sleeve units but ball bearing units are available out there should you desire. estimate 30% improvement.


Next installed Aftermarket Helwig oversize front bar.  40% improvement.


Next bought and installed Steer-safe system on front.  This will get some comments.  But it helped.  First impression without looking at how the unit is internally machined leaves a lot of people thinking it can't do a thing 30% improvement. Do note that this system decreases ground clearance somewhat.


I am now satisfied.  I was going to install the pan hard bar but at present don't see the need.  We are both stuck with the fact that the way the road wears and settles at least around here that our tread width is not as wide as present heavy trucks.  We have to do a lot not to be climbing ridges all the time.  There are some people that mess with the camber of the front but I haven't and probably won't.  This is written up on this site somewhere.


Keep up your interesting comments.

[engineer bill]

Kattkisson,

I don't have access to my complete service records at the moment but here's what I remember doing so far. I have had four different RV shops inspect and work on Winne. Most of this work was done by an RV & Truck front end shop that came highly recomended. (The single most important characteristic I look for in a shop is an ability to communicate and collaborate in both directions.)

in-depth inspection and evaluation of the front and rear suspension & steering, then test drives at several points as the work progressed.

   
• adjusted steering box
• replaced LH stationary pivot
• inspected & adjusted? stationary RH pivot
• inspected drag link pivots-ok
• inspected lower ball joints-ok
• replaced several slightly worn tie rod ends, otherwise-ok
• inspected springs front and rear-ok
• replaced steering stabalizer
• replaced shocks
• inspected sway bar bushings-ok
• inspected sway bars-ok
• btw 1-1/4 front sway bar / 1-3/4 rear sway bar
• repacked front wheel bearings and adjusted
• replaced all 7 tires with decent quality radials
• replaced front and rear air bags
• replaced all air bag plumbing, twice, and finally installed an electric air lift system that allows adjustment "on the fly"
• currently running 35 psi front / 45 psi rear mainly based on our subjective assessment of handling and ride quality
• weighed Wine (each corner) loaded, with all our camping gear, fuel/lpg/fresh/black/grey tanks all approx. half full. My wife and I in our seats
• 4325 lb front, 6125 lb rear
• set tire pressure 55-60 rear/45-50 front based on tire charts. We adjust the pressures "up" on smoother, better roads and down when it's rougher.
• adjusted ride height with air bags per Chevy specification
• had it aligned at a shop properly equipt to do it on a rack (not absolutely clear if this was to motorhome or truck specs since I only learned the difference later.
• subsequently had much of this rechecked by a second shop and found to require no additional work--this a miracle in itself.
• Began driving with my eyes further ahead on the road and not so much looking down. There's a great writeup about this.

All of this made a huge difference, especially adjusting the steering gear, replacing the LH "fixed pivot", tires, tire pressure, air bag inflation pressure, alignment and driving further ahead.


It rides and handles much, much better than when I bought it 18 months ago but I am still not entirely happy only with how it handles the wind.


Am considering aftermarket heavy duty sway bars, safe-steer type setups but mostly rear tracking rod (aka Panhard Bar) systems. I wonder what the best next step would be here. Best bang for the buck I guess. Oh, and I'm running out of bucks!


Thanks for your post. I'd welcome more discussion, especially about your observations on the Safe-Steer system.

[eXodus]

I have the safe t steer and it is not helping. It only brings the steering wheel back to the center.


i did change the sway bar bushing to polyurethane and this did make some difference. so i would go with a thicker front sway bar. relatively cheap on Amazon.


My pickup has the same size as the Mh has. .. so the P30 bar is undersized. try to play around with that front airbags. I was weighted in 4000 front and 9500 back here i did run 75 psi in my front bags. I started at 100 psi and worked my way down until the ride was comfortable enough without sway.

[engineer bill]

What size (dia) are your upgraded sway bars?


How good is as good as it gets?


Whe it gets windy here in No. Calif. I have to slow down to 45 on the interstate.

[eXodus]

1 and 1/2, i think there are some out there with 1 5/8 but cost double.

you are driving a billboard with no weight down the road. It will be never perfect.
you know what the Rv industry did about that ? the newer Mh about double the weight then 25 years ago for the same size.

move to Florida no wind here

[engineer bill]

Also evaluating built-in toad braking systems (all about $900);
(will be selling my new Brake Buddy type box, it's such a pain to put in and out of the Samurai and it applies brakes much too hard, even at the lowest setting.) 


Invisabrake, by Roadmaster, air cyl, cable and pulley system. Specifics on system are a little hard to come by. Seems mainly to be pushed by Camping World.

Stealth, by Brake Buddy, inertia + mh brake lights activation, adjustable rate and sensitivity from mh, "armed" by plugging in their special electrical cable, no separate break-away switch and cable.

Stay-In-Play Duo, by SMI (interesting, mounts the small air cylinder to the pedal-no cable and pulleys.)"Armed" by flipping a switch in the Toad. Feedback to mh from toad brake light switch.

This is a bare outline, I'll post more as I go along here.

[engineer bill]

And..

The track (tire to tire width) is woefully narrow. Later developement of these chassis's by Workhorse increased it quite a bit.

Also, "Billboard with relatively little weight" solution:
Maybe 10,000 lb of water under the floor. That would be > 1200  gal. but now need better motor and brakes. 

Maybe open all the windows to reduce the effective size of the billboard. Keep all the tanks near full as possible in windy conditions. Install big LED flashers on back of RV with message board apologizing for my slow speed. 

I'll keep experimenting with air bag and tire pressures. Thanks.

[Rickf1985]

Bill, I have the Jet Ride air suspension on mine so I have the track rod as a necessity. Think air bag suspension on your KW's, same thing. I can tell you that I still get pushed around by trucks going by but wind does not bother me all that much. It is nowhere near as stable as a bobtail tractor but then again as Exodus pointed out, you are driving a billboard. I prefer barn door. I am going to be replacing the front springs and bags soon and getting an alignment done so I will let you know what it is like after that.

[engineer bill]

Yes, on the Peterbilts/KW/Freightliner all offer rear airbag suspension with links to keep it all where it belongs.

[eXodus]

the newer rvs have real tile at the floor and granite countertops. Should give enough weight. lol.

Every class A is high and thus affected by wind. The only solution would be something with low floors, like the newer city buses. Sure we would lose all basement storage, but would be driving better.

Everything comes with a price, driving a house over the road is not going to be a limousine ride.

[engineer bill]

Yes, but having our own bathroom-Priceless. (parphrasing the tv ad)


I've got about $25k in mine. I have an affluent buddy who has about $500k (x20) in his and he said he had a sudden, unintended lane change on the "Grapevine" mountain pass leading south into LA area last year. Fortunately it moved him into a lefter lane instead of to the right over the cliff. He hasn't driven it since.

[eXodus]

25k that's a lot. inspect your roof if you got fiberglass, mine got blown away. they had some issues.

[engineer bill]

$25k is a lot but:

It includes a vintage appropriate, unmolested, mint, stock, '91 Suzuki Samurai tow(ed) car, hitch, baseplate, tow bar, wiring and brake system.

I've been pretty pretty real about what I've bought, done and had done and it's all in that figure. The Winne exterior is pretty solid and original looking. 4000 Watt generator and rooftop A/C came in good shape and I'll be having the roof resealed this fall. Brand new awning, new roof vent with fan. Have overhauled chassis and put in a completely new cooling system, soup to nuts (I think maybe that reference dates me New brakes, tires etc., Insurance replaced windshield after broken on first trip. Much clearer than the old one. That was $3.5k I didn't have to pay for. New mufflers for 7.4L and for generator. Complete dash electrical repairs, P.O. oddity repairs and various upgrades including captain's chairs and dinnette seats rebuilt and factory covers repaired and cleaned to look and feel like new, new carpet and flooring, new window coverings and drapes at windshield, easy close behind seats and again before bedroom. Will need to figure out repair of original segmented wood sliding shade around bath. Installed nice aftermarket gauges while retaining functioing factory gauge cluster, all new switches: key, lights, turn, hazzard etc., and added a really nice radio/receiver system (speaker phone, bluetooth streaming music, Pandora, iHeart all built-in). Air Ride system that inflates/deflates the air bags on demand. High end doghouse insulation so we can hear the new radio. TV and Very good antenna. New microwave oven. let's see ... tachometer, gps, upgraded batteries, 12v dc access points on dinnette for charging phones etc. and a digital power management system that counts Amp-hrs in and out. High-end external desulfating battery charger and charging ports.

And, all the gear: camp chairs, table, bbq, hoses, electrical connectors, sewer hise system, pretty good tool set, cooking and eating stuff, camping and travel books etc. Jump starter, extension cords external power cable and adapters. Television, fan, small electric heater, bedding. It goes on and on.

I'm not as healthy or strong as I used to be but I've done what I can including all the electrical, dash, gauges etc. I've been lucky to find a local shop, this last 6 months, that charges very reasonable rates; and that has helped keep it down. And, of course, I've been enjoying it a great deal and that's priceless.

It sure does all add up though. Now, so long as no one steals it or wrecks it, we're good to go. Seriously, that's what I worry about.  I have a hidden engine immobilizer and removable battery disconnect switches and I can park it on my property with a security camera and good lighting.

But, bottom line, I do realize that I bought it for $6k and I'd be lucky to sell it for $6k!

I've looked at a bunch of new ones though (Class A & C) at 3-4 times that total that are not as nice and certainly not as cool. And a new or slightly used one would certainly have it's own issues as well. Better the devil I know than the one I don't

And, we would still need/want a lot of the gear I've included in that total.

My wife is getting tired of the Amazon and Ebay shipments coming every day. I've been telling her for a while that we're almost done. I sure hope so.

[engineer bill]

So, I've been doing a bunch of re-wiring in the dash, mainly around the center console. And though I've been careful, there has been a fair amount of inadvertant wire pushing and pulling.


I just took Winne for a short drive and I discovered that, while the AC is blowing cold, on both the Max and AC settings, as well as Vent (no compressor), it is not blowing out of the dash vents-only out of the defrost vents and floor vents. It was working properly previously. I do know that the air direction is vacuum powered. I checked the hemispherical vacuum tanks under the hood and they both seem intact and the hoses are connected.


After that, I pulled the air duct off of the right side driver vent and then pulled the control unit out a couple of inches. I felt around a bit and found that a multiple port vacuum connector (seems to have 3 active lines) had pulled loose from the back of the control and so I plugged it back in. (Not sure if I pulled it out working on the wiring or just when I pulled the controller out.) Anyway, now it is plugged back in.


Still, the air is not coming out of the dashboard registers properly. So, I'm stumped. Can anyone offer a suggestion for my next step?

[Rickf1985]

You will have a vacuum line running from one of those canisters you mentioned back towards the passenger compartment and then up through the top of the engine cover and into the dash area. It will be mixed in with the big bundle of wires that come up in there. That is the supply for the heater control and I will bet that has been pulled off. If it is not pulled off make sure it is not crimped somewhere. Pull it off and see if there is vacuum at the end there at the heater control. If not then work your way back to the canister and then back to the engine. There are no connections between the canister and the heater control, or there shouldn't be anyway.

[engineer bill]

"As always, it was the last thing I checked."  haha.


Thanks Rick for pointing me in the right direction. I eventually found the black vacuum line that runs up into the dash. It's just about the same size as the wiring and so hard to find. So, I'm doing this pretty much blind, flashlight in my teeth, up to my elbows in the entrails of the Winne. I'm tracing out circuits with my fingers and I come upon a check valve. Bingo! That's the vacuum line. It splits into two lines, grey and black. Both lead back to two different connections on the the hvac control, but easy to overlook as they both kinda look & feel almost exactly like wires. They seem intact. I pull off the check valve and I've got vacuum. Good. Reconnect. I pull the multiport connector off and touch. I can feel vacuum, good. Still no air out of the vents and suddenly, the fan stops. Getting worse at this point... But I find the loose electrical connector pretty quickly and plug it back in. Big spark! but the fan starts up. I shoulda thought of that but lucky me, everything seems ok. I pull the multiport connector off again and feel around making sure it's on right. Three tubes coming off it. Humm, I'm stumped. Feeling. around some more. 10 minutes later I feel a loose (unconnected) wire/tube? After a while I find a way to look at it. Now I can see it's a tube. Red. Humm. THINKING. Finally think that it might just possibly have come off that multiport connector. Looking very closely at the connector I can see an unused 'open' port on the connector. All the rest are either occupied or blocked. Wrestled with it a while and finally got the loose tube stuck into the open port. Start it up. Push AC, turn on the fan and cold air comes out from the vent just like it's suposed to. I'm a happy camper now.


There does not seem to be any change when I switch from AC to MAX AC. So far, I can't figure out if it's even supposed to have two inlets, outside for regular and interior or recirculation on max. But I'm happy enough that it seems to be working on max. Better than the alternative. The air seems pretty cold but it's only 85 today with 45% humidity. Stlll, much better than three hours ago.

[Rickf1985]

I should have mentioned it is much easier with the dogbox off, then you can reach up in there over top of the engine and even see if you can still bend like you were 25. I can't!

[engineer bill]

Looked closely at the outside of the ac box under the hood and I see a screened inlet so it probably could have inside or outside air draw. We'll see. I've other fish to fry at the moment.


I definately can't bend like I was 25!

[TerryH]

I definitely can't bend like I was 25!

It's been some 38 years since I saw 25, but I can still bend. Problem is, takes me two to three times longer with numerous hand holds to bend into position, sometimes hours and assistance to unbend and a minimum of a day and a few hot showers to recuperate. 

[engineer bill]

Santa Cruz CA Trip
6.95 mpg recorded.

Refrigerator Failure.
Yesterday, we drove Winne down to Santa Cruz Redwoods RV Park to stay for a few days. We had loaded up the big 3-way NORCOLD fridge with frozen food, meat, produce and fruit. (It had been working perfectly. I had plugged Winne in to AC three days prior to our departure date to make sure it was good and cold and we had pre-cooled everything at home.) Temperature inside the fridge just prior to unplugging the 110 AC was 38 degrees. After starting the engine, I switched it over to DC and we drove the ~ 100 miles which included 25 miles up over an 1800 ft pass. Since this is a CA state highway, the road was pretty rough in places. When we arrived, I plugged into the campground's 30A service and climbed in to switch the fridge over to AC. There were no lights at all on the control panel. I double checked: 1. We had AC in the coach, 2. I checked the coach circuit breakers-they were ok, 3. I checked the coach fuse panel-no blown fuses. 4. I pulled out the owner's manual but the wiring diagram/schematic is sooo small I'm going to need a magnifying glass to decipher it. Bummer.

[Froggy1936]

Hi Bill, If you lose 12V to the fridge control panel The 110V will not work nor will propane ! I Carry a Med size cooler That I keep my beer in < I change 3 freezer packs ea day to keep beer cold , It is also a excellent place to put food in case of a fridge failure (beer goes in a bag)  It will add an extra day to get fridge working again  ! Frank

[M & J]

must      save      the       beer....