Lifter replacement, 440 ,whats involved?

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: mightybooboo  (Original Message)
Sent: 11/5/2003 1:24 PM

Want to know what it takes,must the head come off,or just the intake manifold?
Thanks,Booboo



From: denison
Sent: 11/5/2003 7:16 PM

Removing the intake manifold off makes getting the lifters out easy. You need to take the valve covers off too, since you must unbolt the rocker shaft, loosen it to take the pressure off the pushrods. The lifters should pull up and out, might need the help of a tool most auto parts places sell. It grips the inside of the lifter so you can pull it up. Its because the bottom part of the lifter has a coat of varnish on it, and is therefore going to stick in the bore on its way out. Of course check that your pushrods arent bent. It is even possible to get the lifters out of a pickups 440 by taking out the pushrods, and using the lifter remover to pull the lifter up, with the intake manifold in place. Problem for us is that the floor at the edge of the engine access hole is likely in the way.
I bet you spill coolant as the intake manifold comes free, down into the cam valley. It means changing the engine oil, so dont bother to change it before you put the intake manifold back on. denison



From: Jim83Itasca
Sent: 11/5/2003 7:20 PM

Rocker covers & manifold.
But what are the problems with the lifter ?
Please dont remove and mix up lifters cuz you will wipe the cam lobes out.

Jim



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 11/6/2003 7:32 AM

engine has 5000 miles on a rebuild,long story but suspect lo quality replacement part.Lifter sounds like exhaust on cylinder closest to cab on passenger side.Will run smooth and quiet at idle when first warming up,then a light clatter and a miss in exhaust sound coming from right side dual exhaust.This also comes with a notable decrease in idle speed,though not much.When put into gear clatter much louder,and louder still with a load applied while accellerating.Quite loud.I used to be a pretty fair backyard mechanic at one time so i think Im on the right track.Also sea foam did unstick it and allow lifter to regain pressure and function at idle,just wont hold pressure under a load at all,it seems a classic collapsed lifter.Sounds right anyhow,any other ideas?Oil pressure is mid guage at hot idle,so i doubt a oil pressure problem,oil 10-30 wt and its fresh and clean.Thanks for the answers gentlemen,glad to hear head isnt coming off.What about a lash adjust,whats the procedure on it for that,suppose loose is a possibility?
BooBoo



From: denison
Sent: 11/6/2003 8:21 AM

Ive told you all I know, now I am guessing......
I think the only lash adjustment on mopars is either a new lifter, or special length pushrods. That would normally be in the case of a valve that was lapped in deeply and the stem was sticking up too far - needing the slightly shorter pushrod. I donot know if they make longer than standard pushrods for mopars, since If you have badly worn rockers or worn rocker shaft, they are pretty easy to replace.
It certainly is possible for the rocker shaft to be not tightened down. The 4 bolts of not all of same length, could they have put them back wrong?

Last but not least - you say the noise is louder under load? That doesn't sound like a lifter to me, unless the oil being thinner when warm is making the difference. Have you done a compression check on the cold engine, then on the warm engine?

denison



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 11/6/2003 8:42 AM

Denison,I wont do the lifters myself as i cant do the bending on my back,now have a good (but expensive) and honest mechanic to do that stuff.Just wanted to know for knowledge base and budget considerations.Will have them diagnose and repair,but its definitely(I THINK?) classic lifter noise at idle,under power well I just dont know for sure either,that does seem odd but I learn something new every day,so this may be par(Or MOpar) for the course.Also when I idle hot and not in gear yet again the noise will subside,sometimes completely and idle smooths right out and she sounds great!Would be something if it wasnt a lifter at all,eh?No I havent compression tested yet,and i will check the studs are tight on rockers,repairs will get done in Dec if it doesnt pass smog,maybe Dec/Jan if it does.All our big bills come due in dec,so it can wait for now,just gathering up all the good advice for proper prior planning.Your help is, as always, very much appreciated!
BooBoo



From: Jim83Itasca
Sent: 11/6/2003 11:12 AM

Hmmmm lets see now.
5000 miles on a rebuild, was that a complete rebuild with cam & lifter change ?
You write that every now & then the lifter will pump up and let the engine run on all 8 cyl.
Adding a heavier wt oil (15-40) just might be the ticket, rocker adjustment (if adjustable) would be next in order and push rod check next in order.
If none of the above work then it's lifter change time and if that doesn't work your cam lobe is going (yuk).
I run 15-40 "royal purple" in all of my big block engines & race cars (small blocks) chevys with excellant results.
Mobile 1 goes into my Saturn toad.
Please try a "slightly" heavier wt of oil 15-40 first cuz that just might save you a heap of work & good luck. 

Jim



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 11/6/2003 2:56 PM

"5000 miles on a rebuild, was that a complete rebuild with cam & lifter change ?"

Actually 2 rebuilds,first was a theft fraud scam in which a new cam and lifters put in,they were re-used on the immediate rebuild that followed by the real mechanic.Had to be TOWED from first rebuild to other shop,other place skipped town after screwing people for a few months or so,cute,eh?

Not a bad idea to try heavier oil,thanks.
BooBoo



From: Jim83Itasca
Sent: 11/7/2003 12:19 PM

Flat/or going flat cam is suspect right now cuz if the cam has some time on it & the lifters are re-used and mixed up (different lifter to lobe) that will tear the cam up.
Any shiney metal flakes roaming around inside your filter ? if so that engine is dead and will hafta be pulled and completely gone thru.
I know that's something you dont want to hear BUT even the least bit of metal roaming around will tear everything "again"

Jim