Need suggestions and info on braking systems for a toad.

[Rickf1985]

Since I cannot use my trailer due to weight restrictions and I do not have the money right now for a Trailer Toad set-up I am looking to flat tow my CJ-7 Jeep. I need the brakes to work. I see these ads for auxiliary braking systems and I was hoping to get info from more experienced people. The ads will have you believe they are the same as power brakes but I can tell you that with the hydroboost brakes in my Jeep they are HARD to push when it is not running.

Rick

[kattkisson]

I can only assume that the brakes on your jeep use hyd. pressure from the power steering?

I have used for many years the "Stayinplay" brake system that is being sold by a few people out there. It uses a small Vac. pump and tank to keep a vacuum on the vac. booster. When brakes are called for a small VAC. cylinder pulls the brake pedal down.  Since the vac. booster has vac. on it, it takes no more power to pull the pedal then if the engine were running and the pedal was depressed. The action is adjustable in the tow vehicle. You get feedback from the brake lights of the toad to tell you when everything is functioning properly.  It also can stay in place while you use the vehicle. 

Note that this all applies to Vac. power brakes-- I am not familiar with the hydroboost system on your Jeep.

[Stripe]

Rick have you read my post on the UTB-1000 Tow brake system???

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,7361.0.html

[Rickf1985]

I can only assume that the brakes on your jeep use hyd. pressure from the power steering?

I have used for many years the "Stayinplay" brake system that is being sold by a few people out there. It uses a small Vac. pump and tank to keep a vacuum on the vac. booster. When brakes are called for a small VAC. cylinder pulls the brake pedal down.  Since the vac. booster has vac. on it, it takes no more power to pull the pedal then if the engine were running and the pedal was depressed. The action is adjustable in the tow vehicle. You get feedback from the brake lights of the toad to tell you when everything is functioning properly.  It also can stay in place while you use the vehicle. 

Note that this all applies to Vac. power brakes-- I am not familiar with the hydroboost system on your Jeep.

The hydroboost I am using on the Jeep is the same system we have on the RV's and yes it uses the power steering pressure.

[Rickf1985]

Rick have you read my post on the UTB-1000 Tow brake system???

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,7361.0.html

Can you give me a quick explanation on how it works? Does the unit produce the power needed to push a dead brake pedal with no power? How does it attach and what backs it up from sliding?

[Stripe]

Can you give me a quick explanation on how it works?

I can but I think this link can give you better information than I ever could.
http://www.usgear.cc/unified_tow_brake.htm

Does the unit produce the power needed to push a dead brake pedal with no power?

Yes

How does it attach and what backs it up from sliding?

I refer you once again to the link above.
http://www.usgear.cc/unified_tow_brake.htm
Suffice it to say, with a little bit of pre prep (figuring out where you want to mount the pump and brake solenoid and how you want to run the wiring) Installation was easy.

[Rickf1985]

From what I can gather from the link there is a vacuum pump that supplies the brake booster which in turn powers the brakes. I do not have a vacuum booster. I have the same system we have on the RV.

[Rickf1985]

I'll call a couple of the companies I guess, It sounds like they all use vacuum pumps to power the the toads power brakes. If you do not have a vacuum power brake system you are probably out of luck. i??

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Good luck Rick.  Not many toads use a hydroboost system.  Was more a heavy vehicle system.  You sure seem to be having rotten luck with your tow setup.  Almost like the perfect tow storm.

Dave

[pvoth1111]

I tow my Grand Cherokee (ZJ) behind my coach......it doesn't have a added braking system....not a single issue....I don't even know its back there....drove from AZ to FL with my tools and toolbox inside....heavy....not an issue at all....I don't think a little CJ is going to cause you any problem

[Rickf1985]

Yea Dave, I know what you mean. The Trailer Toad would be the answer but I simply do not have 4 grand to put out right now or in the near future. The CJ is actually quite a bit heavier than a ZJ Cherokee due to the real frame in the CJ. It is 3500 lbs. The 454 in it does add a bit also. W% The Jeep was built for Jersey mud and has a pretty well modified big block in it and I needed the hydroboost brakes to stop it due to low vacuum from the engine and the fact I needed higher brake pressures overall.
I am not worried about normal driving, it is that one time I need to panic stop and there is just not enough there. On top of that I still worry about that rear frame and what would happen in a fast stop with 3500 lbs slamming forward.

[kattkisson]

a comment on not needing a brake system.  I agree for the most part but be aware that some sort of brakes are being required to past thru some states.  Image a lawyer grabbing onto that should you whiplash someone. 

[Stripe]

Katt makes a good point.  Legality is a real issue with me being a former Law Enforcement Officer, That is one of the reasons I went with a UTB as opposed to a brake buddy, that and the fact my Land Rover Discovery II weighs in at a whopping 5.6k Lbs...
 
A LOT of states REQUIRE Assisted brake systems be installed on ALL toads at or above certain weights. And I will be driving through some of them. I would rather HAVE the system and not need it than NOT have the system and get pulled over in a state that requires them and then have to rectify the situation then and there. Some of those states are ruthless with ticketing.
Another link for state requirements
http://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/braking/map.html

The UTB Reacts when you apply the RV brakes, the Brake Buddy relies on a pendulum that is activated AFTER the RV brakes are applied and momentum causes the pendulum to swing forward and activate the Brake Buddy. The UTB Can be adjusted from inside the RV Cockpit (snicker) while the Brake Buddy has to be adjusted by stopping and getting out of the RV, walking to the toad, opening the door and adjusting it then.
The UTB control module also allows you to manually apply the brakes on JUST the toad while driving as well, this can be used in the event you lose the brakes on the RV. You can see the control lever on the module in the photos. That module can be dash mounted or mounted on your RV's Shift handle. None of the inertially activated tow brakes offer this.
The UTB system trickle charges your toad battery while driving to keep it from dying. My Land Rover needs to have its ignition on all the way in order to power the cigarette/accessory outlet which is how the Inertial brake systems are powered. I only need turn my ignition enough to unlock the steering column.
The UTB uses a heavy duty Solenoid that does not need to be installed inline with the brake pedal.

Now on to the big question, is your Hydroboost powered by your power steering pump or by a 12v DC motor? If the Latter then you need the UTH-1000 not UTB-1000.
If the Hydroboost id powered by the PS pump then the Unified tow brake system will not work for you and this whole part of this conversation has been for moot..

[Rickf1985]

If the Hydroboost id powered by the PS pump then the Unified tow brake system will not work for you and this whole part of this conversation has been for moot..

Don't you just love it when you type all of that for nothing? Sorry Stripe but it looks like the moot has it.

[Stripe]

Ahh well, can't hurt for trying yeah?  The only other option is to go with a ready brute elite tow-bar/ brake system in one, it's more of a brute force supplemental brake system.

http://www.readybrake.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knpeRQ2zQ_k

I have just the tow-bar and I LOVE it...

[pvoth1111]

Curb weight of my Grand is 3800 BTW......as far as a panic stop goes, shes not gonna stop quick under the best of conditions....towing or not....its not a sports car

[Stripe]

Sports car or not, supplemental braking systems are proven to dramatically reduce stopping distances by NHTSA and the FMCA... If your paying attention and keeping proper distances relative to road and weather conditions even a surprise incident can be greatly mitigated with additional braking assistance.

[pvoth1111]

I would never say it doesn't assist the braking action....I merely state its not an absolute requirement in my experience...

[Rickf1985]

A lot of years driving OTR hauling special overweight permit loads as high as 120,000 lbs., I have a great respect for pulling weight and the dynamics behind it. I also drove heavy wreckers after that and saw the other side of the coin too many times and it was not pretty. The worst part of this was that there were more often than not innocent people involved. I don't care how I go about it but I will have brakes on the toad or it will be on a trailer with brakes, one or the other or it just does not go.

[Rickf1985]

Checked out the ready brake and that would probably work. I have to crunch numbers. The brake, tow bar and emergency breakaway would run close to 1600.00. It is limited to towing a vehicle and swapping is an added expense. A Trailer Toad will run 3,00 dollars but can be used for any trailer on any vehicle since most trailers already have brakes. Resale on the trailer Toad would be up there also. Thanks for the help, now I have to decide what to do.

Rick

[Stripe]

Great! Keep us abreast..

[Mr. T]

If you want, go to Acme's website. www.cartowdolly.com.


Don T.

[Rickf1985]

I sent them an e-mail asking if their dolly can be used with the long overhang and up and down of a class A and the reply was "Absolutely will not work! Wish it would but it will not. Thanks anyway. Richard Brown, Acme Dolly"

I just cannot seem to win! Every time I think I have a way out I am shot down. No explanation, nothing. Piss poor customer relations if you ask me. I guess they sell enough of them that one unhappy person doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

[Mr. T]

Could be the line about an over-hang threw them off.  Extension might have been a better description.  My encore has an eight foot extension, probably similar to yours.  I bounce and rock and roll down the highway and by-ways without any problem.  Do you have a hitch in place?  If not, I would suggest a universal adjustable.


When I bought my Acme, I received great service without any problems.  Bad customer relations or not, I like the Acme.


Don T.

[Stripe]

Don't they make a hitch adapter that drops the height of the ball?  Would that make a difference??