Dash/Instrument & Running Lights Won't Turn Off

[JessEm]

My dash/instrument AND exterior running lights WILL NOT turn off.

I can dim the running lights so it *looks* like they're off, by dimming the INSTRUMENT lights, but they're still not off... And there's nothing I can do about the instrument and dash lights. They're ALWAYS on, and NOT dimmable! (unless the battery cutoff switch is off... but then, of course, I have no power at all.)

Any ideas?

This doesn't seem normal at all. I've never seen exterior running lights that you could dim with the dash lights.

Furthermore, you cannot dim the running lights when they're actually turned on. Only when they're supposed to be off are they dimmable.

[ramit]

has anyone recently installed a radio?? .seen it many times dash light wire gets tied in with a battery wire

[Froggy1936]

Jess Most likely its a worn out / Bad headlight switch A lot of drivers useing truckers signals put a large demand on headlight and dimmer switches  Frank

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

At headlight switch, sounds like someone swapped the 18 gauge tan wire (circuit L20; connects to pin R for dash lights) with the 18 gauge purple (circuit L11; connects to pin P for running lights).

Circuit L20 (dash lights) goes to the INST fuse then to the small connector on the instrument panel.

Circuit L11 (Running lights) - goes to the presence lamp relay mounted to the side of the steering column bracket.

Dave

[JessEm]

Looks like I have a few places to start looking...

- It does have big signals attached to the side mirrors...
- Circuit City installed a stereo according to some paperwork...
- Verify Tan wire to pin R/dash, and Purple wire to pin P/running lights...

Thanks for the good leads.

[Rickf1985]

Let us know what you find. A fix is always good for anyone searching later on down the road.

[JessEm]

Let us know what you find. A fix is always good for anyone searching later on down the road.

Will do! Right now I'm trying to locate a headlight switch. I called winnebagoparts.com and they are currently looking...

I just bought this MH, but I'm fairly certain this happened on my watch, as I don't believe this problem was happening prior to Saturday. And I have done NOTHING to the wiring since I bought it (except add a deep cycle battery), which leads me to think the headlight switch is the culprit...

[LJ-TJ]

   
• You might consider e-mailing this chap. He may cut you a deal on the light switch. Hm?

   
• http://www.ebay.com/itm/WINNEBAGO-DOOR-COMPLETE-ASSEMBLY-ENTRY-DOOR-SCREEN-DOOR-DOOR-JAM-FRAME-/301242040449?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&hash=item46236cc081

[JessEm]

LJ-TJ, I sent him a message... Thank you my good sir! 

Here's my switch. For what it's worth, I did notice when I was removing it, it has clearly been removed before...

I'm wondering if there's a way to test this? Wouldn't there be a way to do a resistance test with a milti-meter?

Edit: Sorry I thought I added the picture.

[Lefty]

Go to your local NAPA Auto Parts.
Ask the nice counterman to get you an Echlin part # HL-6571 headlight switch.

Pay the nice man.

Now take your old switch and turn it over.
See that button on the other side? Push it down and pull out your knob shaft from your old switch.
Now take your knob and stick it back on your shaft where you yanked it off. glue might be needed.

Install your new switch in the dash and connect the wiring.
Now, shove the repaired knob and shaft into the new switch.
Push it all the way in, then pull switch to verify it locked into the switch.
Now turn the lights off... your done.

[Oz]

Now there's some instructions even I can understand!  Lefty, you should write a book, "RV Repair & Maintenance for Idiots".   I'd be the first to buy it.

[legomybago]

 

[ramit]

But are the running light off now you have the switch out?

[Lefty]

"I'm wondering if there's a way to test this? Wouldn't there be a way to do a resistance test with a milti-meter?"

Basically, if you know which connector goes to the dimmer function, you could measure the resistance in Ohms... As the switch is rotated to turn the dash lights brighter, the resistance should decrease... as you turn it to dim the dash lights, the resistance should increase. (It's been a long time since I checked one, I may even have this backwards) But, I do not have the specifications on exactly what values the resistance should be in order for it to pass or fail.
Also, I'd have to agree with Dave's diagnoses. If the outside running lights are dimming via the switch, either there is a short between the dash light circuit and the running light circuit...possibly even internal inside the switch (bad switch). Or somebody has messed around with the wiring and spliced in a connection where they shouldn't have.

[JessEm]

Just an update to this thread...

Lefty, your instructions are fantastic. I was able to replace the switch from NAPA.

Unfortunately, replacing the switch did not fix the problem.

I plan to investigate further this week...

- It does have big signals attached to the side mirrors... (bad light switch)
- Circuit City installed a stereo according to some paperwork...
- Verify Tan wire to pin R/dash, and Purple wire to pin P/running lights...

[Lefty]

Your welcome,
Sorry to hear the new switch didn't solve the issue, but at least that part is eliminated as a possible culprit. be sure to keep the old switch as an emergency spare, since the new one didn't solve the issue it is likely there isn't anything wrong with the old switch.
Now you'll just have to investigate the wiring to see if there is a short, or if someone has spliced in a wire where they shouldn't have.

[JessEm]

I wonder if a bad ground could cause this? Or if a positive that's hooked to ground somewhere could allow electricity to flow back through, thus causing things to be on when they're not supposed to be?

[legomybago]

You need to chase down the 12v power that is going to your lights and through your switch with an automotive test light, and figure out what is going on (where power in being introduced into/through the switch). You will have 1 hot i believe going into the switch, sounds to me like you have that, AND the presence of a hot wire on the down hill side of the switch?

But are the running light off now you have the switch out? 

Did this get answered?

If you have lights on when the head light switch is out of the system, your problem is definetly down wind of the switch.

[JessEm]

But are the running light off now you have the switch out?

Did this get answered?

Good question... I did not see the post earlier. ... I'll check and post what I find.

[JessEm]

But are the running light off now you have the switch out?

The running light question just got a little more complicated... But first, NO, the dash and instrument lights DO NOT go off when the switch is out. They're still always on. As for the running lights, it just got a little more complicated because yesterday I started cleaning all the electrical connections inside the battery compartment, and now I'm having trouble replicating the running lights "always on" problem... It's as though cleaning wire connections has KINDA fixed it... Very weird... Maybe the running lights and instrument/dash lights are two separate problems?

Could someone pull the plug off their headlight switch and compare the wiring to mine... I have 5 wires going in...

Also worth noting. When my battery disconnect is "ON", the round white insulator(?) inside my headlight switch gets HOT ENOUGH TO BURN your hand, regardless if the lights are on or off. If you look at the 2nd picture below, you can see the plug receptacle in the upper left corner got so hot it melted.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Is this what you mean by "battery cutoff"



That is not a battery cutoff rather it is a dual battery cross connect relay operated by the DUAL/NORM/MOM switch.

DUAL - cross connects chassis and house battery so engine can be used to recharge house battery
NORM - Chassis and House batteries are not connected
MOM - Allows you to use the house battery to assist the engine battery to start the engine.

the round white insulator(?) inside my headlight switch gets so hot, IT WILL burn your hand.

That tells me the source for the AUX battery relay switch power is coming from the instrument panel light dimmer circuit (bad juju).  Headlight switch is not designed for that current load.  AUX battery switch should be sourced via a add on fuse path from the house battery.


74-75 Chassis Wiring diagram is available under the Chassis and Coach Wiring diagram section of the Manuals, Diagrams, & Tech Info section under members area selection above.  Enlarge the 2nd page around the headlight switch to see which wire connects to which pin on the switch.  More than enough detail on that drawing for what you need.

Dave

[JessEm]

Sorry, battery disconnect is what I meant. It simply cuts off battery power to everything when it's off. When it's on, that's when I'm experiencing these problems.

It's this:

[PwrWgnWalt]

Hi Jess,

The melted connector tells me there is something wrong there, or at least there was at one time. May be a melted or shorting wire elsewhere in that white (tan?) wire, causing your issue.

I'm providing a link to my posting on electrical items on a Dodge site I frequent, the first item covered is the headlight switch.  Although the wire colors may not be the same, it will provide you with troubleshooting ideas.  I am nearly 100% positive my switch works the same as yours.  Your melted white (tan?) wire connector is "post I" in my link below, and may run your instrument lamps... At least part of the problem is in that circuit, so trace that white/tan wire all the way to the fuse panel, it's flowing way too much current, or has way too much resistance.  Use some dielectric grease on those connections (NAPA).

http://www.sweptline.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34977

In your picture of your harness, starting at top left and working counter-clockwise; you can check with a voltmeter, black lead to ground, red to each connector as follows:
B1:  Big Black wire is power wire from alternator/battery lead, should be 12+v at all times when battery is on.  Powers only the H (headlight) circuit.
R: Purple wire is for Running lights, should only be hot when the switch is pulled out (any position) and voltage is constant at 12+volts. Looks like this goes to a 'presence lamp relay' (powered from the Run Lmps fuse) and that relay case should be well grounded!   Try manually grounding that relay and have someone watch those running lights when you do it.  This relay (or ground thereof) could be your issue.
I:  White/Tan wire for Instrument lights, should only be hot when the switch is pulled (any position) and voltage varies with turning the rheostat/knob. Sends power to the INST LMPS circuit on the fuse panel, and it looks like it takes a 2 (two) amp fuse.  Check this fuse carefully.
H:  Yellow wire for Headlights, should only be hot when switch pulled full out, 12+ volts.  Provides power to foot dimmer switch.
B2:  Pink wire is from the battery, via the fuse panel position for Exterior Lamps. Should be 12+ volts at all times when battery is on. This powers the R and I leads.

You can also test your switch using the Ohm setting of a voltmeter, but without any power or wires to the switch (any current/voltage will destroy an Ohmmeter). B1 and B2 spade terminals will be your main test sites.

[JessEm]

Pure gold, PwrWgnWalt. A LOT of work went into providing that info. Thank you for sharing it.

I will delve into this tomorrow time permitting...

[legomybago]

I wonder if the white wire has aluminum foil wrapped around the fuse W% ....You are really close to a fire, and I think you are really close to finding your issue now. Good info from PowerWagonWalt too