Dodge MB400 360-3 wiring problems

[Oz]

Anything can be added when a topic is marked solved. 

[Mlw]

OK then..... SOLVED

[Mlw]

Well, problem not solved.  . I really must admit that it's starts to get to me.





I would so much like to rip the complete wiring out and start new, but with todays prices it really is lunacy to do that. Half a year ago, I allready said prices were not up but UP . But now I'm saying to myself, boy, do you have been stupid not to bite the bullet back then. It really isn't fun anymore. 
So I started working on it, but soon enough lost track because of corroded wires rusted solid in Car Wire Cable Clips and plastic insulate brass connectors. There just was no other choice then to cut things loose.





As the previous  doesn't understand why you need to colorcode I lost track in a matter of minutes just because the total mess that was created and. Notice in above pictures how there is an isolation box placed, but actually no use because of the way it is sliced open to put the wires in. This is the way EVERYTHING in this RV is "repaired" so I came to terms allready I will need another year to get my Betsy on the road again and freezing my behind off coming winter with the upcoming LG prices.

[Mlw]

Well, the people who read all my adventures so far (running in the thousands if I am to believe the counters)  probably will get that I am somebody who speaks his mind. I think honesty is always best even when the message is not nice. If I offend anybody with this, I do apologize but that's the way that I am, but as I can safe only one person the heartache I've been thru with my Betsy, still not seeing the end of it, it's worth it to me saving only one person from the same heartache so please understand that I mean below message from a positive stand of view and not negative.


I wanted to dig into the problem mentioned yesterday, but then my buddy at the hobbygarage who I helped with his wiring came back with the message that his back lights were not functioning properly again. After a full day of work and let him leave the garage with everything working perfectly, and testing multiple time afterwards, the ground problem is back full blow  i?? i?? i??

so with his RV there are also problems that shouldn't be there because a wiring magician put his paws on the electricity as well.

When you really don't know what you're doing and don't want to learn, PLEASE STAY OFF!!! Fix the problem right or Stay OFF!!! Ask help from a friend who knows what he is doing or be prepared to pay for it. It can save you a lot of trouble and money too when you are in the middle of nowhere with an RV that isn't working anymore because of your handywork, being lowballed when you try to sell your RV and being honest about it or get problems with the buyer afterward, because I'm seriously considering pressing legal charges to the seller if he doesn't come up with a counterproposal soon after a letter with all the problems found. Even fixer-uppers shouldn't have major mechanical problems like an engine that has thrown a rod or completely f***** up electrical wiring because you are a wiring magician.

Just my two cents. I can only hope it is appreciated.


Now what the previous  has done is adding a bicycle carrier and a towbar. Nothing wrong with that, but again if you do this DO_IT_RIGHT and not by snipping wires in half and NEVER EVER use  Car Wire Cable Clips ruining your wire isolation or plastic electrical connectors in an environment you know is going to be absolutely soaked with water driving in the rain because the result is going to be this:



Now IPhone's are unfortunately unbelievably bad in making closed up photo's so sorry for the bad quality. On the next foto the end of the cut off wire in the left upper corner should be shiny copper and not black, and I needed to cut of 15 pieces of wire of about 2 inches before I finally saw clean copper.  That's 30 inches of wire eaten away by corrosion just because somebody was to lazy to do the job right and using non water resistant connectors in a wet environment.





Now the best way to fix this off course is pulling a new wire, the next best thing is solder a new piece of wire to the old wire and isolate it with heath shrink tubing.




I put the wires back in the reinforcement hoses and connected it to a water tight wiring box so now I can use plastic electrical connectors to make a three way splitters. so I can change out the wiring easily which I will need to be doing in the future without any doubts. Pictures and explanations of this will follow tomorrow when i finish the job.

[Mlw]

And the next problem.

As I like my wipers to be wiping as less as possible somebody build a wiper interval for me as the Hella one that was build in failed. I looked for the same one at first but i'm not paying $200,= for a new interval switch just because it states "Hella"

I got a real nice one with fuses on the controlpart and on the 10A relay switching the wipers. Even the €200,= Hella intervalswitch wasn't that luxurious. 

On the internet I found a wiring diagram for the wipermotor which exactly match the colorcoding.



Measuring with my multimeter states the following

PPL (purple)  directly connected in the wiperswitch to 12V+ supplying a constant 12 volt to the wipermotor.
BRN/YEL (Brown Yellow)  Low speed.
GRY (Grey) High speed.
BLU (Blue) (park wiper???)
Tan Washer motor


However as soon as I connect the relay to the low speed cable (brn/YEL) and the interval switches on to power the wipers the 10A fuse blows. The Hella interval was connected to this cable.


Investigating the problem I found the wipers to be connected to 3 fuses in the fusebox, or so my multimeter tells me... As far as I understand electrics, this means 60 AMPS on a 14 gauge wire, and the puzzle to find out where the problem is. I had it happening once, Let's not make that twice...

[Oz]

Shouldn't matter if the topic is solved status.

[Mlw]

Yes, Mark I've understood that from you the last time. 

I've been puzzling for four hours today, Good news is that the Wiring magician didn't seem to have touched the fusebox and everything still looked original. I found a great wiring diagram on the internet which has the correct colorcodes for my wiring and the basic instruments and it showed directly why it seemed that the wipers were connected to three different fuses. It was my bad because the fusebox has 3 feeds. 1 constant, 1 via the ignition switch and 1 via the lightswitch for the dashboardlight. Everything connected to the ignitionswitch gets fed by the lightblue wire so then it's logical your multimeter finds a connection on everything connected to that wire.  I should have disconnected the fuses and then measure the link AFTER the fuse    



Source: 1979 Dodge Truck Wiring Diagram Database - Wiring Diagram Sample

There is only one thing really boggling me, The wipers are not connected to any fuse but the fusible link, Can anybody tell me why this is because I guess there should be logic to this and I'm starting to guess it's also the reason why the fuse of the interval keeps blowing or why the Hella interval gave up.


Then another question. Is this the fusible link?




Then the question is, are these kind of fusible links still for sale or is this system in the USA also upgraded. I am not familiair with these kind of fusible links and didn't even know they existed, i removed it because the wire was heavily corroded and caused heavy voltage drop. As I thought everything was on fuses and didn't understand how this worked i didn't mind, but now I do and as the wipers are not protected in any way now, I'm getting worried. I do have a cutt-off switch I always turn off so all power is off when I leave Betsy, but of course it needs to be safe when the power is on also.

Also, the index of the Fusebox in the wiring diagram is completely off. IS there anybody who has a Class C with a Fusebox diagram that at least is the same as the items I found and indexed.




And as last: Is there any logic in reading out the Amp gauge, because I can't make anything of this. I know the  alternator is delivering 60 amp max. and I remember from way back in our old RV or now in Betsy the gauge max out between the 3rd and 4th stripe which makes about 20 amps per stripe

The discharge side seems to be much more sensitive and every stripe shoud read 4 amps?


Thanks in advance...

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

First off, buy a service manual for your VAN chassis: 1979 Dodge Van Service Manual
It will save you a tremendous amount of headaches.

2nd, Service manual says there is a circuit breaker in the control switch, ergo no fuse.




1979 Dodge Van Wiring Diagram from Dodge Service Manual








As I said, buy the manual and stop driving yourself crazy as the book will answer almost ever question you have been asking.  No I will not keep generating this stuff as the book is about 500 pages long. Took me a couple of hours just to do this.

[Mlw]

Wow, Again thank you so much, Dave.

Well, your work hasn't been for nothing and it finally sank in to me. Sorry for being such a mule.




I'm still learning that things are done differently in the USA expecially in the automotive industry, but i hope you can also see my hesitancy.
The book was $ 10,00, and I also will have to pay 25% inportfees afterwards but in this case well worth saving the headaches

[Eyez Open]

Wow, Again thank you so much, Dave.

Well, your work hasn't been for nothing and it finally sank in to me. Sorry for being such a mule.




I'm still learning that things are done differently in the USA expecially in the automotive industry, but i hope you can also see my hesitancy.
The book was $ 10,00, and I also will have to pay 25% inportfees afterwards but in this case well worth saving the headaches

I must as if you have Norwegian genes...you should be able to download that manual and print it out..that avoids fees

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Sorry if I sounded irritated.  The Dodge van was immensely more popular than the Motorhome chassis so a lot more support was provided by Dodge which results in a lot information that is not required in the Motorhome manual.  The motorhome manual doesn't include wiper motor info because it was not provided by Dodge.

Assuming your using a Desktop or Laptop computer, place your cursor on the picture right click and either select download or copy image address and open in a new tab in order to enlarge the picture.

Please note that Dodge changed to a shunt style Ammeter around 1974 in all their vehicles.  If you look at lower half of page 2 of 6 you will see wires A1-20RE and B1-20BK. They both attach to wire R6-10BK. That short piece of wire between each wire junction is used as the shunt for the ammeter.  An ammeter is actually a voltmeter that measures the voltage drop across a shunt.  They just scale the meter in amps vs volts.  This method prevents the full amperage of the alternator from being applied to the Ammeter.

Note here is how to decode the wire info:

Wire A1-20RE: Circuit #A1, 20 gauge wire size, Red
Wire B1-20BK: Circuit #B1, 20 gauge wire size, Black
Wire R6-10BK: Circuit #R6, 10 gauge wire size, Black

Fusible links you were asking about are shown on Page 2 of 6, right side and at starter relay.  As a general rule, a fusible link is made of wire that is four gauges higher (smaller) than the rest of the circuit, making it the weakest link in your electrical chain. For example, a fusible link in a 10-gauge wire would be 14-gauge. Fusible link wire size is shown on the drawings, eg J1-18GR  (Circuit J1, 18 gauge, Gray).  That one is protecting circuit J1B-12PK/BK (Circuit J1B, 12 gauge, Pink wit a black stripe)  Like fuses, Fusible Links are typically sold as generic items at a auto parts store.

[Mlw]

@ eyes open: Well it doesn't matter anymore. I bought it now.  I must say, it's handier to have the book then a printout in a map. It could very well be I have Norwegian genes, but as fas as I know I haven't. However the dutch and Norwegians are known to dig each other very well. and were not far off from each other. Sorry for the dutch in the map, but that's how google works nowadays.




@ Dave.

You didn't sound irritated to me but I do recall you telling me 4 times allready to get the manual   

I'm very gratefull for your comments because you are always right on the money and i'm learning a lot from you by your answers to me but also to others.

I'm also not an electrician but understanding most of it. In the pas I build complete lightshows for discotheques (and let an electrician check it afterwards), renewed a lot of wiring working for the yachtbroker But as soon we get in the area of diodes, resistors and that kind of thing my knowledge is at end and I'll be needing help from electricians. I'm also really bad at mathemetics which is a huge handicap with electrical formulas. I just don't get it so your detailed answers are a tremendous help.

[Mlw]

God, when am I going to learn to listen to my better judgement.

I never trusted Ebay and never ever ordered something at this company and for very good reasons as will be shown!


We are now almost 2 months further and of course I never received the manual, but as ebay gives you also a "Money back guarentee" I turned of all the alarmbells ringing and didn't cancel.

"We send you updates" (see above) - Never received them. Delivery 14th of juli (see above)

So at the 14th I checked the tracker. No updates, of course.

So I tought just wait a little longer, and I forgot about it till today.... Now my tracking info was updated.




I don't know where they deliverd it, but certainly NOT at my house!!!


So I tried to enter my account to start hours of emailing, contacting etc to track the manual or get my money back:




So called, but after an hour of "all employees are busy, please be patient" I had enough and hang up!


So I will be cutting my losses again and there is Ebay for ya as I actually knew all along!

Let's be clear, the only one stupid enough to order from Ebay was me, but please people take a lesson out of this and let's all stop using these SH*T companies and please stop sending links to them.
They are laughing there asses of at us, and they will keep doing it as long as we are stupid enough to trust their "services"

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Sorry to hear you had bad luck.  I have used EBAY many times and never had a problem.  Though if something is not shipped within 3-4 days (e.g. weekend delays) then there is a problem with that seller.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

An alternative is Bishko Automotive Books.  They carry the manual in Print, CD, or Instant access forms.  I suggest you try the contact link at the bottom of that page and call them directly about overseas mailing (DHL is not the best shipping company).  All you really need is the CD version (pdf files).  I normally only keep digital versions because they are easy to store and replicate across laptop, phone, and/or tablet.  It is the big 11"x17" electrical drawings that can get cumbersome.

[RockwoodMike]

Let's be clear, the only one stupid enough to order from Ebay was me, but please people take a lesson out of this and let's all stop using these SH*T companies and please stop sending links to them.
They are laughing there asses of at us, and they will keep doing it as long as we are stupid enough to trust their "services"

Marc,
I have something I am willing to do for you and I want to do this for the whole community of Winnebago owners..

Using the link to eBay provided above by Dave, I just bought this manual..You can tell it has been used well and it is the perfect item to slowly scan each page to a PDF file..

I have 2 of those type of printers that have a scan bed on the top of it and software that scans it to pdf file..It will make a multipage file and I can start to scan the areas that you need the most..Wiring..

With a limit of a MB for file size, it may take a few uploads to do..

This would be a great addition to the library available for everybody..

Here is the link to the book I just bought..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185981957663

I will rip the book apart page by page to get a full scan from it..And I will start with the electrical section as soon as I get it..

[Mlw]

Hi Dave,

Let's be clear, I'm totally not blaming you and are very gratefull for all your help, so thank you again for the links. You can be right that there is a problem with the seller, but international shipping and traveling is a total mess since 2021 and even deliveries from Rock auto have taken over a month to get to the Netherlands in the past.

Was it Fraud? Highly possible! But as Ebay is offering the service they are responsible or at least so it should work in an normal world.  Of course it can go wrong, and that its not the problem, but then at least you offer service. You just don't keep your customers waiting on the phone for over an hour telling you to "just be patient" and not pick up the phone while it's the only option you can use to clear your account. What the hell is that? With every other company they send you an email or text with a link so you can clear your account within seconds.

We have a site here in the Netherlands called marketplace (marktplaats) It was a great website for these kind of things. everything arranged directly with the seller thru email or phone and it never went wrong untill ebay bought it up. Since then you have to pay for everything and the service is ... In Germany you have Ebay Kleinanzeigen, and they woke up, kicked ebay out and it's now just Kleinanzeigen. Let's just hope that more will follow.

And Mike, thank you so much for your offer. it truly warms my heart and stll gives me hope for the future of this very sick world we live in and lets keep it at that.

[RockwoodMike]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133886564492?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221115143056%26meid%3Df9633f40e37e437fb6d2dcc1c95448b1%26pid%3D101612%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D133886564492%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2&_trksid=p4375194.c101612.m4236&_trkparms=parentrq%3Ac1232e7c1890adb9298d1bbdffffabd0%7Cpageci%3A81db5bd3-32da-11ee-b8b2-8aca997d8339%7Ciid%3A1%7Cvlpname%3Avlp_homepage

I was checking the tracking of the shipment of the book I bought..It is being shipped by "Media Mail" which is the slowest of all of USPS's shipping methods..

But here in the states, you get from Ebay a email stating "Your purchase has been shipped"..
I then set up a email alert with the shipper to give me updates of the shipping progress..

Then when it is actually delivered, I will get another message from Ebay stating "Your purchase has been delivered"
and a verification from the actual shipper..USPS UPS Fed Ex Ground..

As I was looking at my shipment on Ebay, I saw this book from Chrysler that might be something to get to scan..What do you think?  Link above..

[Mlw]

Hey Mike,

 

Thanks for the link. 

 

Ebay always has been very VERY controversial here in Europe. It's not called Evil Bay by many for nothing next to the examples given in my last post.

We have a site here in the Netherlands called marketplace (marktplaats) It was a great website for these kind of things. everything arranged directly with the seller thru email or phone and it never went wrong untill ebay bought it up. Since then you have to pay for everything and the service is ... In Germany you have Ebay Kleinanzeigen, and they woke up, kicked ebay out and it's now just Kleinanzeigen. Let's just hope that more will follow.

 
And I'm not the only one with these experiences
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/ebay.com

 

Knowing this I did try and got bitten by Cujo (Stephen King) in the backside BIG TIME. But even here in the Netherlands I rather drive 200 miles and get the manual in person then let it be sent by postal services because of the fact that work and company ethics are pretty much non existant anymore. next to this i accepted for long that I'm exactly like Donald Duck instead of Gladstone.   

So I'm really sorry mate but Hell needs to freeze over -200 degrees now before I ever going to use Ebay again and I would highly emphasize to do the same. These fraudulent companies will be there as long as we keep using their "services".

 

I looked at the link you given me Dave, and I will give them a call. You need to have an American address to order from them directly. I'm also not thrilled about the fact you have to save your CC details with CVC number to your account when you want to order something from them. Now as I don't want this to happen again...

But despite all the bad luck I'm really grateful of all the help I'm getting, keep truly loving you guys and the old US of A😍😁😍😁😍 Rotten apples are found everywhere and we just have to dispose of them 😉

[RockwoodMike]

As I was looking at my shipment on Ebay, I saw this book from Chrysler that might be something to get to scan..What do you think?  Link above.

Wait!! This is another copy of the same book I just bought and waiting for..But the one I bought is in much better shape..I get a little confused sometimes!!

I have a good friend that lives in England. And I would send him things that he couldn't get in England..Use to take a week from California to get there..

Now you don't even try..3 weeks easily and it will get lost most of the time..The European postal service is a wreck..

[Mlw]

The European postal service is a wreck..

All I can say to this: "Aint that the truth"

I'm not exactly thrilled about USPS either. an package from https://quadrajetparts.com/ accelerator pump needle and vacuumcaps, took 5 months in 2022, and I had long since gave up on the package as USPS is not giving tracking updates despite the fact I had USPS 0 lbs, 6.24 oz First-Class Package International Service, and also had no possibility to contact whatsoever so mabe I need to wait 4 more months of this to arrive too? 

Rock auto and Summit Racing orders came with FedEx, and for me all six orders went flawlessly arriving even before the expected deliverydate,

[RockwoodMike]

When I use to send stuff to my friend in England by USPS,you could track it right up to the point where the big Boeing jet lands at Heathrow..That usually took 3 days to get to Heathrow..Then after that it would disappear..for weeks..

Friend would say "nothin yet"..for weeks..
I just don't send him anything anymore..

[Mlw]

The reason i'm telling all this is to educate people in advance what you are getting yourself in to restoring a vintage (US) RV.

Let's face it, it's not exactly a walk in the park, but particularly not for us Europeans because parts are scarce to nonexistent, so we need to order them across the pond. I knew that because of my time working at the yacht broker selling vintage sailing yachts, but the effort it takes to get parts to Europe since Corona is completely rediculous.

US Rv's from the seventies/early eighties were far more luxurious and had far more room than European ones so that's why I went for Betsy next to the fact that a little HP's also don't hurt when you want to move a brick of 6000 LBS around. 

European RV's catched up quick however and were far more economical because of the fact that even back then gas prices were already 12 times higher in Europe then in the USA and we settled for 4-cylinder engines instead of 8, but I think it is unnecessary to say that it was nearly impossible to get a speeding ticket outside city limits and climbing mountains was done in lowest gears and engines pushed to the rev limiter screaming all the way up.

Now getting regular carparts via companies like Rock Auto and Summit is not too difficult but getting specific parts (like the manual for example) are a living nightmare because most companies don't ship internationally so you have to put your trust in fraudulant companies like Ebay or US forwarding companies and hope for the best. I tried both of them and got bitten in the backside so i'm not going to follow that route anymore.

[RockwoodMike]

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction_input?strOrigTrackNum=9449008205498011805092

Just to let you know that the manual is on it's way..at least that part will be here soon!!

My friend in England has this little tin can for a car that has a 3 cylinder engine that gets about 50 miles to the gallon..But a gallon (it is by the liter) comes to about 10 dollars..we can never really figure the true cost because there is exchange rate with the dollar/pound..But that is close to the price..

So with your cast iron gas guzzling Detroit iron engine must be terrible to fill up the tank!

[Mlw]

Yes, that will hurt, but because it's a vintage classic vehicle no taxes, that softens the sting a lot.

And I'm not planning to travel with it tens of thousands of miles. It never had because there's just 58000 miles on the clock and looking at the pedals this probably is accurate, also the engine ran way to good to survive the previous idiots abuse for 158000 miles.

Gas prices in the netherlands for premium Gas (98) indeed $10,00 per gallon at the moment