Chevy 350 & chassis in a '72 Brave?

[lumpy]

Sent: 6/3/2008

Was 72 the only year winnebago offered the 350 chevy in the brave?
What tranny did they use and are they as reliable as the dodge.
Why was it offered and why did not last?

[Slantsixness]

Sent: 6/3/2008

1972 and 1973. C20 and C21 only. supposedly there are 1970 and 1971 C20's also, cut I've never seen one. I've only ever seen 72's though.. 3 in person, and 7 or 8 on ebay... a couple members here have them too..

why did they quit?
they didn't... they started the Itasca line with the GM chassis and used the chassis (and the 350) in the Class C's... I'm guessing that it was a supply and demand need plus a push from GM to use their P30 chassis. Kind of a trial and error, that ended up a better relationship than the one winnebago had with the failing chrysler corporation (at that time) Chrysler in the mid 70's was plagued by financial trouble, poor workmanship and out of date engineering. I mean.. I'm a mopar fanatic, but advances in engineering and Smog control were just pathetic for chrysler, along with suspensions.. Chrysler didn't get rid of the Straight axle front end until 1984, when it was a redesign of the van suspension (cheap) for low profile motorhomes and postal service trucks... the Dodge truck division suffered horribly for years. Just think.. the same pickup you bought in 1972... was the same pickup you bought in 1993... except for a little reskinning and the Famed cummins diesel (along with the demise of the slant six..)was all they had improved in 20 years. Ok... but they're really good running sturdy trucks/vans/chassis... but still.... 20 years for only mediocre improvements on a fairly good design? That is one of my biggest discouragements about Chrysler in general.
(ok.. so none of this really mattered to your question... I'm just running my mouth....!) 

Nice bonus:
The C20 and C21's have independed unequal length front suspension, and both front and rear sway bars. This is about the best handling "suspension wise" that you can get out of a 10,000 pound box.

I used to know where one was in VA for sale... probably still there and for sale too...

It would be fun to stuff a dodge drivetrain onto one of the C20's... but at todays gas prices... I'll stick with the ol' 318.

[lumpy]

Sent: 6/3/2008

Are you saying that the c-20's in 72 had a different suspension under them?
I see nothing about this in the brochure for the 72 indians?
I was assuming that the only difference was the powerplant

[Slantsixness]

Sent: 6/3/2008

Yep. that's what I'm saying. they are completely different than the Dodge chassis winnies.. and ONLY the C20's. No Indians, Chieftains.. etc....
I'm pretty sure none of the 18/19 foot Brave models were offered with the GM chassis either.

Now.. With that said...
There's nothing stopping anyone from stuffing a GM drivetrain into any Winnie without changing the original chassis. Heck.. for the most part they're all similar. Even the Dodge chassis Winnies use a GM style master cylinder... (although GM didn't make it.. it was common throughout the bare chassis of Chevy Ford and Dodge in the 70's.

The closest relative to the dodge chassis without actually being a "Dodge" is a Ford... the Axles are all the same (or pretty damn near identical).
In later years, the Famed dodge M500 chassis was sold to John Deere... who still produces it (sort of), but with commercial diesels, or large Ford (460's,V10's etc.. even that powerstroke thing.. you know that diesel that sounds like a 440 with rod knock? yeah.. that one..) drivetrains.

I have a lot of respect for GM's innovations in Motorhome Chassis design in the 70's.. From the FWD models, the independent suspension, rear disc brakes... they really tried to bring safety, handling and "universability" to the rolling chassis industry.
I will state, however, that I am no fan of the 454 V8. the Ford 460's and Dodge 440's just outclass them for lastability reliability and good old fashined Gas guzzling power. (Ok all you 454 fans out there.. don't shoot me...or tell me how the 454 is rated at higher HP or torque, I just don't care! This is only my opinion... and it'll never change... I'm Damn stubborn about ALL Mopars... Even the original Plymouth Cricket.. ( a US version of the Hillman Avenger) anybody remember them? Anybody got one? Wanna sell it??? I want one as a toad for my Winnie.


all you GM guys out there be nice....

Tom

[bluebird]

Sent: 6/3/2008

350s were the standard engine in the p30 chassis too at least untill 80. I had all the paper work with my 80 Itasca. It did have a 454 in it though. I've never drove a Dodge powered mh, BUT I have driven ford powered. I'll take my gm 454 over the 460 any day. There is no comparison between the two. My MH gets better mpg than a ford 1 ton 460, and might just out run one too.

Chuck

[lumpy]

Sent: 6/4/2008

well I spoke to the owner of the rig, Yes it is on a p30 chassis, has independent front suspension and disk brakes up front. it is a 72 c20.
now I have to weigh my options, i have been looking for some time and getting info from this sight to help educate me in my decision , now I learn about this and it throws a wrench in my decision.
i naturally assumed that the previous owner just did an engine swap to a chevy.
Should there be an concerns or info on the C models I need to think about to bring me up to speed on this one?

[denisondc]

Sent: 6/4/2008

I think the P30 chassis and the rest of the Chevy driveline is just as good as the Dodge chassis & driveline. Its possible you may have an easier time finding parts for the Chevy - brakes, engine, transmission, etc. than for the Dodge driveline of the same era. However I dont think you can expect all parts to on-the-self at your nearest 'light truck' parts place.. Im always pleased if they can get me the less common parts in 3 or 4 days.
As far as I know, the brakes on the Dodge motorhome chassis in the early 70's were all Bendix stuff. I think the same is true for the early 70's Chevy chassis, though the parts wont be the same. I dont think that either Chevy or Dodge made their own brake components. I would assume the same is true for the axles (Spicer/Dana), springs (New Departure), & steering components (Saginaw, Moog, Dayton Parts); to cite a few examples.

[lumpy]

Sent: 6/11/2008

well digging into this a bit further , the winnebago literature lists the c-20 as having a 250 h.p. rating . no mention of torque though and I know this is the the key any guesses on torque ?
I assume this is a bit more than the dodge 318's in these beasts were rated at.
318 in a dart was a fun car , I had a 720 340 demon that was a blast. also a 340 swinger. neither would hold a candle to the old mans Boss 302 though. man that car was a high revving car.

[denisondc]

Sent: 6/11/2008

I would agree the 350's peak torque value is likely to be somewhere between what the 318 and the 413 produce, though I dont recall what they are. I expect the engine will have adequate power for travelling anyplace having roads. Its not just torque, since all of the other variables will affect how much 'forward-urge' is produced at the rear wheels, i.e. the rear axle ratio, the transmission gear ratios, the degree of torque multiplication produced in the torque converter. The manufacturer chose those factors carefully. The typical camshaft in a motorhome (or truck of similar capacity) is going to be 'ground' for long-term low rpm pulling - like 2500 to 3600 rpm. It would produce little torque above 4500, since it will seldom if ever need to turn that fast.
Running at 60 mph on the level, I am guessing you will see driveshaft speed of 2700 to 2800 rpm, with the engine spinning about 200-300 rpm above that - from the loss in the torque converter. Thats only a little faster than the rpm of my 413 at the same speeds, and my engine seems happy. Its been doing it for 36 years without needing to be rebuilt.
If it seems to lack power, I would do a compression test (but not until you have driven it for a couple of hours on the highway), to see if you have any low cylinders. Then I might get the distributor rebuilt, with the correct centrifigal advance weights for the camshaft it has.
That engine has very few weaknesses. The 350 in our 87 Chevy G20 sportvan has passed the 250,000 mile mark.