What engine: 72 Brave? (plus a humor!)

[Clyde9]

From:Lasvegasdebbie2  (Original Message)    
Sent: 8/18/2005 3:06 AM

Do you know what engine is in the 1972 Brave, I think it is 26'.



From: denison    
Sent: 8/18/2005 7:10 AM

The original engine in a 72 Brave would have been a 318, or the optional 413. The 318 has the distributor at the rear of the motor, on the drivers side. The 413 has the distributor at the front, angled over on the passenger side. Both engines are good solid workers, and parts are available for both. But getting the correct parts isn't as simple as knowing the 318 or 413 numbers. They are both industrial versions, that are similar to the engine of the same size used in the passenger cars, but not identical. The 318-3 is what is in the motor homes, or the 413-1. A lot of auto parts places have no listing for such motors. I have dealt with places that supply trucks and automotive machine shops, who DO know the difference. Even so, taking the old part with you is a good idea if possible.
In the unlikely your engine was replaced with a newer one, it could also be a 360-3, in place of the 318-3, or a 440-3 in place of the 413-1. It is hard to tell the 360-3 from the 318-1, and the 440-3 from the 413-1.



From: Im-still-Lefty   
Sent: 8/18/2005 11:20 AM


Is a 318 LA Series, the same thing as a 318-3? There is a 318-LA Series in my '72 D-18, Just wondering....Lefty



From: denison    
Sent: 8/18/2005 3:27 PM

Don’t know. The i.d. # on mine says: 413-1 PA, but even after buffing it with steel wool, and standing right in front of it with a light (the radiator was out) the number was barely legible.
The service manual for the motor home chassis says it would be a 318-3 or a 413-1 or 440-3, as does the Chrysler Tech Training brochure.
But explanation in the service manual of the 318 engine i.d. scheme didn't make sense to me: Its example was PM318R 28382049. And the explanation for the 413 and 440 i.d. did not agree with what I found stamped on my engine block.



From: The_Pharaoh_Rulz_</NOBR>    
Sent: 8/18/2005 9:27 PM

The 413 - 1 PA means that this engine will get 1 more mile per gallon while driving in Pennsylvania... and that's the honest to Sob's truth!

- SincerelySob



From: OldEdBrady    
Sent: 8/18/2005 11:12 PM

And 413-LA means it runs much better with a little marijuana in the tank.

      

From: Enigma960080    
Sent: 8/18/2005 11:16 PM

Actually   it means  That  particular  413 motor  was  responsible for  all the smog  in Los Angeles...



From: mightybooboo    
Sent: 8/19/2005 12:28 AM

The smog in LA,now thats funny! And probably true too!

BooBoo



From: The_Pharaoh_Rulz_    
Sent: 8/22/2005 8:49 AM

I've seen parts references for the big block engine (440) with "RB" at the end.  What does that stand for?

- Sob



From: OldEdBrady   
Sent: 8/22/2005 9:04 AM

RB=Real Big

      

From: denison    
Sent: 8/22/2005 11:17 AM

I understood RB meant "raised block". And that the rise had the effect of allowing the oil pan mounting surface to be flat, i.e. not needing curved openings to fit around the ends of the crankshaft. But mainly it had the effect of allowing the block and main bearing 'webs' to be stiffer and not distort as much at high crankshaft speeds. Maybe this the low cost alternative to 4-bolt main bearing caps?
Whatever it means, the i.d. sticker on the passenger side rocker cover, says my engine is a 413RB. It does have an oil pan with a flat mounting surface, and takes the same oil pan gasket as the 440s.



From: Slantsixness   
Sent: 1/31/2006 8:19 AM

A 318"LA" engine just means it's a "small block" 318, rather than a "wideblock 318"

the easiest way to determine if a 318 is a 318-3 or a 318-1 or 2  is to look at the motor designator, with that said, it's damn hard to see and not stamped very well.

another way to determine if a 67-73 318 is a 318-3 is very simple:

does it use RF10C plugs? or N-4's?
the 318-3 uses RF10C's (they're huge, like a 351 windsor spark plug)
after 1973 (and there's probably later ones that still use the RF10's) all 318's use the N-4's (well, RN12/RN14YC...who would use non resistor plugs these days?!)

Tom



Slantsixness

RB means "Raised B Engine"
A 383 was a B engine, as was the 426 wedge, 400 and 413
The 440 and 426 Hemi were the only "RB" blocks.

from the 318...."LA" mens Low profile A engine

The original 318 was the Wideblock 318 and very similar, but had differences in the oiling structure, oil pump and drive, and radically different heads. They were considered "Semi-Hemi's" since the wideblock's combustion chamber was almost hemispherical, but the spark plug was not at the "top center". This wedge head design was much different than the "wedge motors" of the same vintage.
The "LA" engine design started in 1963 (64 model year) with the 273 V8. Chrysler needed a small V8 for their smaller cars (Valiants/Darts) but the Wideblock would not fit, so the head was redesigned and the displacement was lowered so the smaller overall size would fit and perform well in these smaller sedans (called "A" bodies, coincidently)

the "A" was the series denoting the "small block V8"
the "B" denoted the Larger or "big" block V8

Ok, this post was from memory, so if I missed a fact or two, it's because I'm getting old?!

Tom



From: eSlantsixness   
Sent: 1/31/2006 8:27 AM

The 413RB is a "Raised B". The 413 "Truck" and "Car" versions are all RB's. I don't know why I stated the 413 was a "B"!  The motor I was thinking of was the 361, which is a "B".

The "B" is referred to very often as meaning "block" but in reality it is just a designator for the basic physical size of the engine and the "series" or "Engine Family".

Correctly stated, it is a "Raised B Engine" the block is taller, and the redesigned bottom end layout does afford the additional strengths and benefits that Dave mentioned above, but I'm not so sure that the re-engineered RB engines would have benefited at all with 4 bolt Main caps.

It's not the Horses, it's the Forces!

The primary benefit of "Big Block" large displacement engines is the massive amount of torque they produce. The "horsepower" is a secondary thing. Revving any Mopar Big Block above 6000rpm is asking for destruction anyway, plus very few RB engines make much horsepower past 5000rpm anyway.  (but there are some 10K RPM hemi's out there... thanks to Keith Black)

4 Bolt Main Caps were engineered primarily into small block, and higher revving engines to provide the additional block and Main cap strength that the smaller engine block lacked. With today's better bearing manufacturers, unless you are really running a GM 350 at questionable extreme limits of the original 2 bolt main block (7500rpm) there is really no need for 4 bolt main caps at all, but I'm sure there's a Chevy fanatic out there who would disagree....but then again... I'm a Mopar man. I'll put my 30mpg slant six pickup up against ANY Chevy truck and still go home from the gas station with change in my pocket! 

Tom <----long time Mopar nut